El-P

Russo gone is good, but as long as Bischoff is still there, nothing will change much, as Russo already lost a lot of imput when Brother Love came in board. And Pritchard isn't the answer at all. They need to get rid of Bisch & Hogan anyway, they are just leeches.

41 ? That means he was only 30 when ECW went under and his body was already broken down. I didn't think he was as old as Raven, but I never thought he was just passed 40. Amazing.

I know this is about TNA and India, but I have no idea what this is exactly about.

This is awesome. And this reminds me I should listen to more Lambchop. Kurt Wagner still has this great voice.

I think Atlas is thinking backward. The most glaring instance to me is Ranger Ross talking about how he was denied a spot, I think with Crockett, when he was told they already had a black guy in the roster. And that's in the late 80's.

Really ? Russo is gone ? It sure took some damn time. Get rid of Hogan and Bischoff, hire some people who know their shit, and maybe there will be some hope.

Actually, the Bret heel turn from mid-98 is greatly entertaining. Excellent promos, excellent TV matches against Luger and DDP. But yeah, overall, huge waste because the booking was awful. I think Mr. McMahon would have surged at some point anyway, as the feud with Austin was foreshadowed by McMahon being stunned as early as the fall of 97. People seem to think that Mr. McMahon just popped up with the Bret screwed Bret promo, but infact it was several months after than the character slowly showed up, and the real beginning of the Austin vs McMahon feud was Austin "ruining everything" with Tyson on RAW.

In other words, we were the one getting screwed.

Tony Atlas got a theory about how there's no racism in prowrestling since most black men ended up main-eventing at some point. What do you think ? On the opposite side of the coin, a guy like Ranger Ross or Curtis Hughes would tell you they encountered racism in pro-wrestling while they didn't before in other domain (football, rangers).

Not fair. I could easily have said the 04/02/95 Weekly Pro Wrestling card since it was one of those once in a lifetime (frankly all of pro wrestling's history of lifetimes) card. Maybe not the best ever, but a pretty mind numbing collection of talent when you think of it... and the ability to see it all one one card, with a number of the matches damn entertaining. That AJPW match isn't close to the best those guys put on, but if I asked every AJPW fan on the board that they if it's the only match between all of the Four Corners that they'd ever have a chance to see... they'd be perfectly happy to see it rather than never seeing them together. John Actually I have it on my hard drive somewhere, but never got to watch it. Gotta find a slot sometime. Yeah, pretty amazing collection of talent here. This won't be duplicated, ever.

Listening to Tony Atlas Youshoot, and it's pretty fascinating to hear him talk about the psychology of his foot fetish. More interesting than the bullshit about how in the days, 70% of working a match was actually real because you had to take care of yourself.

Yep. I enjoy Raven a lot. EDIT : and Dylan (among others) doesn't always get my dry humour.

Wait, what ?

If you mean the Steamboat match, no, I have not. Which isn't very surprising after all.

That's exactly what I was referring to.

Well, I think Roma is underrated as a worker. But he's still a douchebag, and that's the reason he was fired by WCW.

Hey, that brings up an interesting thought. Andre's national heritage was never made into any kind of big deal. In 1980s WWF. When has any other heel from a foreign country EVER had his birthplace just barely mentioned in passing like that? When you're a foreigner, in Vince's world that automatically means that you're given a (usually heel) gimmick which is entirely centered around your foreign-ness. Even most Canadians at some point have a xenophobic slant to their character, despite the fact that most Americans tend to view Canada as basically the 51st state. By the standards of this industry, Andre should've been forced to wear a beret and a stripey shirt and hit people with baguettes. I understand that he was an unique character and treated differently, but it's odd that Vince didn't do even the slightest bit of France-bashing when Andre was a heel. I think the reason is that Andre was bigger than this. He was basically the biggest travelling star worldwide before Hogan, and his status went beyond his nationality. He was *The Giant* first and foremost. I do get a major kick each time I hear Howard Finkel introduces him being from Grenoble, in the French Alps. Usually foreigners can be glad if they get the name of the capital of their country in their introduction. Not only Andre got the name of his city, but the fact they didn't say France but "in the French Alps" was kinda cute. I guess it sounds more exotic or mysterious to American ears, at least that's what I always thought. Well, Frenchy Martin was pretty xenophobic and a total outdated French stereotype, but he was another Quebecois. The reason why their hasn't been I think is simple, because there was no French wrestler on the circuit. Wrestling was big on french TV in the 50's and 60's I think. I know my Father used to sneak in to watch wrestling matches with L'Angle Blanc when he was a teenager. I believe it died in the 70's. So, there was no one to work for Vince anyway. I'm sure he wouldn't have been opposed to make a stereotypical French heel, seen as most Quebecois ended up being heels anyway (Dino Bravo, the Rougeaus, Rick Martel although he asked for it, Pierre Oulette, and the guys from la Resistance). Picking up guys from Quebec was the easiest way to go. Although I wasn't following the scene at the time, La Resistance was just a baffling gimmick. Calling a heel team like the armed force which fought the nazi occupation during WWII is like, WTF ? Was that during the infamous "freedom fries" era when there was some strong anti-French sentiment at least in the American media like Fox ?

I figured you'd say Wrestlemania XXVII.

It doesn't, at all. According to the most recent TVN study of sports fans over the age of 12, not only is the percentage of fans with no interest in wrestling higher than it's ever been, the ones who call themselves avid fans are disproportionately poor and uneducated. I just watched Danny Doring & Roadkill vs Nova & Jazz, and now I'm gonna read a Samuel Beckett play. I feel like a total schizoïd freak.... Maybe. But it's something that just doesn't exist today, and is to invent. One can argue ECW was by some aspect the first post-modern wrestling promotion, although it mostly appealed to young male metalheads who wanted blood and nekkid girls I believe. Roh is another post-modern wrestling company in that it's been self-consciously trying to get snowflakes (which doesn't quite work). And appealed to geeks, I guess. So, we're not there quite yet.

Ok, I see. That would be the ultimate progressive attitude for a wrestling promotion, and I think it's a stretch. It would be cool though. There's no such thing as indifference in these matters.

so many jokes...so little time... Surprised no one did it earlier.

Well, if it's barely mentionned, I don't see much of the point, although I do agree with you on theory. I'd like to see a gay babyface who doesn't act like Zaza Napoli feuding with a heel bigot. That said, I don't see the wrestling crowds, not exactly the most progressive (Cena is clearly a babyface making homophobe jokes) cheering the right guy. With good enough booking I'm sure you could get the people to side with the gay wrestler, but WWE mentality won't ever allow that (Kanyon humiliation...). In the same vein, I'd like to see a babyface American-arab wrestler, and hell, muslim to boot, feuding with a despicable right-wing jingoist dirtbag. Again, not the kind of stuff that would be easy to book by the WWE idiots, but really, wrestling needs that kind of stuff to evolve. Oh, and French speaking wrestlers that aren't coming to the ring to the sound of La Marseillaise, wearing beret and acting like old stereotypes. There are so many ways to poke fun at French people while being both funny and current.

Ask Dylan. Although you'll have to suffer through way too much bad Dudley stuff, including that annoying freak Spike, and probably won't get enough Raven goodness, but that's subjectivity for you (I guess, I haven't seen the match list, but I know Dylan's tastes). Outside of that, I think you'll be fine with the set if you don't want to subject yourself to watch everything (which I wouldn't recommand to anyone unless you've got way too much time on your hands like I did. ECW had tons of really good and fun stuff, but quite a bit of really terrible shit too). Well, the yearly sets do have the best of ECW thus far from what I've seen.

Well, at some point in 1995 Foley was doing the anti-hardcore gimmick, which is as meta-prowrestling as you could ever get. Using restholds to get heel heat from the ECW mutants was pure genius. At one point I think he threw his opponent to the ground, foreshadowing the beginning of the wild brawling, only to get back into a resthold on the floor. Brillant. Foley the anti-hardcore wrestler was amazing. He cut his best promos during that time too.

Not really. More like "I'm old-school and I don't go for your hardcore crap.". But Corino in ECW was tons of fun anyway. The last bright spot of the promotion with the emergence of Rhino.