Sean Liska

People stopped caring for a while when Japan was down and WWE was dominated by Cena and Dave didn't regularly rate ROH. Now, with the NJPW resurgence and the explosive growth of hardcore fandom (evidenced by something like ROH immediately selling out a 2,100 seat venue in Chicago just by advertising Omega), Dave's ratings have taken on a whole new life like it's the 90's again.

My problem is that Meltzer is held up as the expert for wrestling and yet he seems to have no ability or desire to construct an argument to save his life. Anyone who doesn't agree with his opinions on wrestling is an idiot or hasn't watched enough or doesn't know about the business. It's like, he has the reputation he has so he's unquestionable and it's beneath him to engage honestly with any opinions contrary to his. People on Twitter were asking why he considered Cornette and Hart to be better managers than Heenan in the mid-80s and his response was "I lived through that era". Personally, I think if Cornette were in charge of hyping Hogan matches that Dave didn't want to see, and Heenan was in charge of hyping Midnight Express classics, the viewpoint might be different.

Nah its still cringeworthy. No one watches more wrestling than Dylan Hales and I saw him on Twitter talking about how great Miz is after his No Mercy match. Dave is getting feisty about differing opinions.

I think it's more that we don't have as much easy to follow weekly TV from him like we do Memphis, Mid-South, Dallas, AJPW, etc.

All right I change my Vince vote to Jerry Jarrett.

I could be wrong but I really think he's gone with no planned return date. They hot shotted the Nakamura match and had Nak beat him clean, they hot shotted the Braun match and had Braun destroy him for 90% of the match, they just had Roman kick out of 7 AAs, I don't think he's back for Mania season. He'll be back at some point like Rock though.

Was that farewell from arguably WWE's GOAT? That's a big moment.

100% agree and ICW is my favorite product out there right now. I feel like people here would really enjoy it, I need to try to get people into it. The funny thing is they market themselves as this ECW-style crazy promotion, and yet the in-ring style is secretly the closest to 80's American style that you'll get right now, and I mean that in a very good way. They don't have guys trying to outdo Misawa-Kobashi in each match like so many groups, it's very fundamental solid stuff. I just love that in this era of so many bland workrate indies, they have on old-school focus on characters, stories, blood feuds with satisfying payoffs, it's a mixture of the Memphis/Alabama style of booking with some ECW/Attitude Era type characters, huge fan.

I would say calling him a total flop from a business perspective is a little harsh. He gets a little underrated from that perspective. Since the emergence of national pro wrestling in the mid-80's with WWF and Crockett/WCW, what other non-major American group has experienced growth like ECW did? You have to remember that when he took over in 93, ECW was just a Northeast indy like a million other Northeast indies that have existed, mostly just popping crowds when they would bring in wrestlers who had been on national TV. For them to grow as steadily as they did in the following years, starting as a group that just ran monthly in Philly and then being able to draw 6,000 in Chicago, 5,000 in LA, 5,000 in Toronto, 4,000 in Pittsburgh, 3,000 in Buffalo, etc - who else has accomplished something close to that in the last 30 years? He didn't have major financial backing, he just had his parents' money, and what they lost in their total existence was like a few months for TNA. He continually lost stars, anyone with talent was taken from him. They experienced that growth by continually satisfying their audience, building loyalty, creating their own stars, clever stuff. If I were to go with an American besides Vince, though, it would be Jerry Jarrett. He created Lawler and put him over the top in 74 when he had Lawler do that series facing the top wrestlers from around the country. He brought wrestling to the Mid-South Coliseum. The crowds they drew on a weekly basis with their population base was ridiculous. The highest rated local TV wrestling show of all-time, I think at times they were the highest rated weekly show of any type in Memphis. In my opinion the best wrestling TV show of all-time, I can watch almost any period from 79-91 at least and be highly entertained. Created the Fabs, the R'R Express, Cornette, Kamala, used Kaufman perfectly, so many classic feuds over the years. Dundee learned from him and brought Memphis to Mid-South and they did their best business ever. Placed on emphasis on pushing smaller workrate guys of the era like Eaton, Morton, Ware, Gibson, Condrey, Dundee, Rogers, of course Lawler. Was able to make money off of Memphis into the mid-90's and got out when it was no longer possible. I love that guy.

I think it has to be Vince. Whether it was the perfect booking of the Mania 1 main event or getting us hyped for Brock-Braun 32 years later. So many successes. Hogan/Andre, Goldberg/Brock, Hogan/Savage, Austin/McMahon, Hogan/Orndorff, HHH/Batista, Cena/Rock, Vince/Trump, Bret/Austin, you can go on forever. He's had his misses but who has a flawless record. Watts always seems a bit overrated to me, 5 good years and the territory was struggling until Dundee turned it into Memphis #2. I love Jerry Jarrett but he thought TNA was a good idea, although that could be thought of as a promotional blunder than booking. Baba let his promotion run out of steam before he died. Gabe is currently booking a lifeless product. Love Heyman but we're talking maybe 5 great years in ECW and 8 months writing SD.

Nashville-era TNA is just the sleaziest most uncomfortable to watch wrestling of all-time (well maybe XPW is up there). ECW was like the Waltons compared to the Russo/Athena shit, how could someone enjoy that.

Sandman. Will go to my grave trying to convince people he was a uniquely effective in-ring talent.

One of the greatest entertainers in American history.

Do you all think they may have changed directions in this angle? Last week Shane is suspended in a big emotional segment with Daniel Bryan and the hook is Kevin Owens suing WWE. This week, it takes five minutes for Vince to bring Shane back, shoot down the possibility of Owens suing them, and book them in a match for HITC. I'm wondering if this beating was a late decision by Vince for who knows what reason, maybe he sneezed or had a bad workout.

I know he deals with a lot of trolls but if Dave could ever comprehend the idea that people have different tastes when it comes to entertainment, that would be a nice moment. Someone said Will Ospreay is one of the best storytellers in the world and Dave on Twitter replies - "Don't say that, all the people who still think the Earth is flat have their religion short-circuited by such a statement.". Someone complains about overt choreography in wrestling and he says - "Every generation says that about everything new. Nothing wrong with it. In time, you'll see it over and over again." To me it comes back to the double standard of him giving Hogan-Andre negative stars while they worked a perfect match for the stadium and fans there. Damn it I said I wasn't going to let myself be negative on Dave after subscribing for 25 years and loving the guy but he is on a tear on Twitter today.

I think Dave genuinely believes that when he says it. I'm a little uncomfortable with how much PWG panders to him and makes him part of the show and how he's friends with everyone, but it's not like it really matters, they're a very small promotion in the whole scheme of things.

I mean, it's all scripted, so whoever "wins" or has the better line or argument or whatever is as much determined by the writers as who wins the match. WWE did this kinda brilliantly with Rock/Cena, I remember lots of arguments about who was winning their promo battles, and it ended up being the biggest money grossing show in wrestling history. To me, last week they had Cena work way too stiff with Roman if they want Roman to be the face of the company. So this week Roman was booked to win and look stronger. Obviously Roman isn't a fraction of the promo that Cena is, I don't think Vince will ever have to worry about Roman getting all the Hollywood buzz that Cena is getting, guy just can't deliver lines very well.

Damn it today Dave tweeted out a link to RealHero's archive which is invaluable for those of us that like to be able to watch non-NJPW puro that we otherwise wouldn't have access to. Hopefully the wrong people don't see it. Dave's been confused about this thing since he called it the AJPW streaming service. The good thing is he loved the two main events so hopefully that gets some space in the Observer and more people start paying attention to AJPW.

Yeah, this isn't one I would get mad at Dave about. There's enough news there. Corbin is being punished and it's not for all the rumored reasons like his Twitter stuff. That's relevant info for a guy they've been behind so much. And I trust Dave after all this time that there's a reason he's not elaborating more. It's like when Mauro first missed an SD and they said it was because of travel issues and Dave just said that wasn't true. Turns out Mauro was having serious mental health issues and Dave didn't want to report that. But he was still ahead of the story and everyone else.

Yeah it's really starting to harm my enjoyment of the TV show as well, I'm big on atmosphere with my wrestling. I know they're already spending a lot of money on NXT, but I dunno, maybe they get a ridiculous amount of money in TV rights in 2019 and they can start doing tapings in 1,500 seat venues around the country.

Just give me a sliver of a doubt, let me have my fun tonight, love a big apuestas match.

I know it's AAA, but still, nothing in wrestling like an epic mask vs mask match with an unpredictable outcome. Should be dramatic as hell, I'll be watching.

Eh I say treat it like being a territory fan back in the day. Dundee leaving Memphis to be a jobber in Crockett wouldn't affect your enjoyment of Memphis. Pretend NXT exists in its own world.

I'm done doubting NXT. I thought Brooklyn looked like one of their weaker lineups, no way it can follow Chicago, and it might be my show of the year. I fully expect Houston to be amazing, I don't care what the lineup is. I haven't followed Cole's career closely but I was in Brooklyn for the show and people were just overjoyed coming out of the arena, just going nuts. So, no matter what you think of him, certainly seems like they have a guy that can carry the brand for the next year to their core audience.

It's a big waste of his time. But for as much as we complain about that, I love living in a world where I can be in line at the grocery store and have a random thought about a CMLL rudo trios act, tweet something to Dave, and get a response in an hour too. Oh, those old days when we had to send Dave letters in the mail and then hope that of all the ones he received, he would print ours and possibly respond to it.