Matt D

we live in a world where Vince probably knows who Rob Naylor is. A strange strange world indeed.

Right before I went off to England for a year in 03, my college roomate, as a birthday present, got us tickets to a MSG house show. It's my only time ever going to a show there and business was way down in 03 so we were able to get really great seats. Not ringside but the next best thing. Great atmosphere. I don't remember a ton of stuff. I remember Tazz getting a great pop and that feeling special. I remember the main event being awesome. it's on a fancam on youtube and I have to watch it at some point. It's a really fun card on paper. I wish I remembered it more.

I used to joke that this board was a Dave Meltzer watchdog group, but I think we've hit the point that it's sort of asinine to even bother joking about that. That said, can anyone point me to a juniors match on the indies in the last year with really good psychology? Most of the stuff i see pimped are more along the lines of Sami Callihan or Luke Gallows or what not. The issue is the style itself. It's evolved to a point where you have to get in all your shit and work a rapid fire pace or else the fans will shit on the match since they're conditioned to be gorged on action and moves and fighting spirit and what have you. It's a vicious circle, especially since if you won't work that match, someone else on the card will.

People on DVDVR (and maybe here?) smartly pointed out that Vince is getting whatever he can out of Brock before he flakes.

WWF around this time is generally terrible at call-backs. In the build to Savage/Warrior II at Summerslam, they never once mention that Warrior retired Savage or that Savage cost Warrior the belt.

Neither here nor there but I was watching Savage/Warrior from Summerslam 92 for the first time in ages and it's amazing how much more blown up Warrior was in that match than in his other big ones.

No, damn you. It's a REVOLUTIONARY way of saying he has good heel mannerisms! I have no idea. It sounded good at the time though?

I feel like people are actually sort of straining to come up with things in the Best TNA Match ever. And for a promotion with ten years of weekly tv (including multiple shows for various periods) and monthly PPVs, that's pretty rough.

Yeah Sandow is a really great heel live. Really came across like a star and a guy who was ready to take that gimmick to prime time when I saw him in Dec Some of my favorite live wrestling experiences were going with my college roommate and a guy a year or two above us to Chaotic Wrestling in 00 in Boston and watching Aaron the Idol Stevens and his (literal) life size britney spears cut out doing his stchick. It was like his OVW character turned up to 11. He was the third guy in a stable called One Night Stand and would stand outside the ring in their matches selling everything that was happening in the ring. Just awesome over the top comedy timing.

WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - April 20, 1991 (matinee) Rick Martel did not appear as scheduled Bret Hart fought the Barbarian to a draw Ricky Steamboat defeated Haku Ted Dibiase defeated Roddy Piper when the referee stopped the bout due to injury Kerry Von Erich fought the Warlord to a double count-out Sgt. Slaughter defeated WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan via disqualification The Berzerker defeated Tugboat WWF IC Champion Mr. Perfect defeated Davey Boy Smith Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty defeated the Orient Express I WISH I remembered the show better. I was 9. But I bet Steamboat vs Haku was fun. I bet Perfect vs DBS was fun. And I can't believe I don't remember the Rockers vs Orient Express match since i was a huge Rockers fan. BUT I'll tell you what I DO remember (past Hogan, who I really loathed at 9 losing due to using a chair Slaughter brought in). I had a friend, a special kid who was the younger brother of a girl on my sister's youth soccer team. I kind of looked out for him. Well, his Uncle worked for Titan sports, so we got comped when they came around. More than that, twice we got to go backstage. This was the first time (The second was Survivor Series 1993 and it was a lot less special, but I do have a pic of me with the smoking guns somewhere). My pal got scared about seeing Sgt. Slaughter and backed out at the last second so it was just me and the uncle. Somewhere shortly after the first match we went backstage and went looking around for a Wrestler. The first guy who showed up was a just out of the showers Bret Hart. He was super nice to me despite having just wrestled and showered and what have you and I came out of it with a signed ticket and a great memory.

©they don't like his pants.

I see a whole lot of "fun spot fests" mentioned. I'm not saying I'd want to avoid X-Division guys altogether, but I do wonder if the promotion, over its timeline, has a lot to offer that's NOT a fun spotfest.

We don't have a note on the 70s IWA do we?

Did Christian have any matches that would qualify? When he came back to WWE in 2009 he was a great babyface.

I think the last thing I'd be wanting to see when looking for the best of anything would be a Daniels match.

I've seen so little TNA. I'd be curious what people think the single best two or three matches in the promotion's history would be.

I thought the Luger story is about Summerslam.

It pretty much is. You should have seen me go on about this Eddie Edwards no sell for about a page during March Madness. Or Dusty wearing the witch's hat on WCW Prime. I petitioned HARD for that to make it into 95 yearbook. To no avail. I'm still annoyed about Punk not selling the back at Mania. And still nuts over the Ghastly Sidestep big boot dodge I saw Undertaker do against Berzerker in two matches from 92 last week. (Seriously, it's awesome. Has he ever done that again? Against Diesel at WM 14? I have to rewatch that match) I get excited by my wrestling? EDIT: And hey! I was happy about the "negative space" explanation, since no one put it in those exact terms yet and I think it fits. He really does use it well! A lot better than most methodological wrestlers. It's not just him doing rest holds or lumbering between moves. Edit #2: IT's really hard to make a coherent argument when it comes to someone who says "I don't like slow wrestling." At that point, you just have to say. "Okay, I respect that, but do you at least see the things I'm pointing to, the specific things. Because those are the things *I* like about wrestling. So, can you at least agree that these things are being executed here, and they're executed well, and that no, they're not done by most other wrestlers in most other matches, especially not nearly as well." Because that can be discussed at least. When it comes to personal tastes there isn't much one can do.

Yeah, for one thing, Young Stallions Matches are all terrible. They're the only team I've ever seen to have bad matches with both Arn and Tully and Eadie and Darsow. And that's when they're up there against GOOD teams. They had a huge run with the Bolsheviks.

Bossman was really good in 91. Especially his matches with Earthquake.

It's a critique that I think is understandable only due to the tradition that we come from. I've read my share of old 80s observers, and matches basically had to be "Action"-packed, hard-hitting/headdroppy, or have some sort of epic real sports feel. Matches with a lot of negative space or that slowed things down, were generally considered to be less worthwhile, even when there were good, logical reasons for the slow down. It still boggles me years later that a match as smartly put together was Warrior/Andre from SNME was considered the worst match of the year. I think one of the most amazing things about Henry is exactly how he uses that negative space. He seems to grasp exactly when to act directly and when not to. His timing, in that sense, is great, as is WHAT he does when he's not actually directly attacking his opponent. All effective are the trash-talking, the ref intimidation, the crowd interaction, and the basic transmission of presence. This is all stuff that we don't usually even think about in matches with other people.

I need to rewatch the MSG Brock/Taker cage match which is up on a fancam. I know I loved it live, but at lot of that was for Vince's antics

This might be presumptuous but I do think what some of us look for in a match is different ten years ago than it is now. If it's changed for some and not as much for other people, that could create some dissonance in this exercise. Dylan, are the matches you called MOTYs 10 years ago still things you consider to be that good?

I don't think it's a point so much as an opinion. There's no right answer here.

I do think the crowd is also desensitized. Not to go back to Steamboat/Savage, but a lot of what happened there not only seemed fresh, but within the context of the 1987, would have worked as a believable finish.