Matt D

Oh the move was a killer in 87-88. It was a match ender. When Hogan or Warrior kicked out of it in 90, that was the first time I remember that happening.

If the move is protected and no one else is using it, it's fine. Big Show's deadliest move right now is a punch, and it's protected like no one's business. Hell Cena's finish is an overglorified fireman's carry takeover. Henry's is just picking up the guy and falling on them, basically. It's all in the presentation. In WWE neither DDTs or Pile Drivers matter in the least.

That match is the worst. I always forget how bad it is and have to watch it now and again to remind myself. I actually like the finish a lot in theory, but it's just a terrible terrible 3 minute match. I guess the way the match is laid out isn't terrible, to be honest (Bravo attacks at the bell while Kerry is getting his coat off, gets a lot of offense in early, Kerry comes back. Dino blocks the claw, hits the side slam. Kerry kicks out. Dino goes up to the second rope in desperation. Kerry catches him in the claw, hits the discus punch, match), but the execution sure as hell is the drizzling shits. Wretched punches. Weak chops. Both the worst atomic drop AND inverted atomic drops. Lame head slams into the apron. The blocked claw sequence looking miserable. Kerry backing up six steps for no reason so he can get clotheslined over the top. The worst. And yes, not only did Bravo lose that match but Kerry also kicked out of his finish.

I listen to anyone's BS and I still tend to avoid Mike Graham.

Demolition was awesome at.... Oh, wait you mean TODAY. Nevermind.

My wildly unreliable source is the Matt Borne shoot but he basically blames the downfall of Portland on Buddy leaving and giving Rip Oliver the book. Is there anyone who would know more concrete dates? Does Dutch Savage answer questions still?

Tito over DiBiase in 88-89 would have been a big deal, not so much in 1992. Ted had been doing the same thing for going on five years at that point. He was long removed from doing anything in the main event, and long removed from any high profile angles. He was the first person turfed from the Royal Rumble that year. Tito over Ted breaks Tito's long running WrestleMania losing streak, but Ted didn't exactly the most stellar 'Mania streak himself. He won two matches at 4 and lost in the finals, DCOR with Brutus Beefcake at 5, beat Jake by COR at 6, and wasn't even on 7. Waiiiit a sec. He wrestled Virgil at 7

I was a big Tito fan as a kid, so when Razor came in I thought he was saying "Tito" and wanted to know why he wanted to get him so badly.

BUT it has this AMAZING moment where Sherri totally changes her tune as Tito recovers and comes towards her and she goes ... "I'VE ALWAYS LIKED YOU!" or something like that.

Re: Tito in 91-92. Becoming El Matador had one really important end result to Tito in ring. Before 88 or so, Tito used the figure four as a viable finisher and the Flying Forearm could work as a transition/comeback move or a set up move. After that, when he wasn't using the figure four, so many of the matches where he would lose would let him keep his heat somewhat by hitting the forearm, but having the heel too close to the ropes in one way or another. As a 10 year old, I knew the second that would happen, that he would lose the match. After becoming El Matador, however, he gained el paso de la muerte.(do I have that right?) and past looking cool, it meant that his match structures became just a little more unpredictable. Trust me, as a kid it really made his matches more exciting.

Al Issacs' Scoops?

There are a few things in Tito's favor. Vince knew he was loyal. Vince knew he was capable. Vince knew he was reliable. He wasn't about to end up arrested in a car with Razor Ramon (or whoever else he feuded with in 92). He had a reputation of being a family man and not a big party/drug guy. Apparently, the Matador gimmick was supposed to be part of a bigger push than he actually ended up with (Tito went to a decent amount of trouble to learn the gimmick). I'm not sure it mattered but he could also be a guy that Flair might have put forth (as he had with Windham just a year before), though it's not like he had a lot of leverage in the situation. I'm not saying that I believe it, but I think there are more outlandish stories out there.

I can't tell if this is a subtle troll, or a serious issue you want to delve into. Then obviously I'm doing something right. No, I'm serious. He had the book when Portland was really hot in the early 80s right? And one aspect of Portland (much like Memphis) was a weekly show in the same place every Saturday night, which seems like one of the hardest things in the world to pull off successfully. One of the reasons guys liked the territory was that less travel was necessary than in other places, so they had a smaller loop but still drew money. He did this with what I sort of feel is a weaker talent pool, top to bottom than Memphis, with less turnover of talent to keep things fresh. He's also booking HIMSELF at this time, so he has to be relatively selfless about that. And when he left Rip Oliver took over and things sort of fizzled out?

I don't, but I do buy the "Gino had way more money than he ought to have had." mindset

I though the story was that they were going to bring Hart, Adams, Gino in as a unit?

I don't think we talk about Buddy's booking enough.

Gino was supposed to be part of the rat pack instead of Borne.

I couldn't find any easily available footage of it but apparently on Superstars, Bret refuted Papa Shango ... well I'll just C+P from Graham's site. 9/26/92 Superstars Papa Shango pinned John Richner with the reverse shoulderbreaker at 1:28; during the bout, Bret Hart cut an insert promo regarding the supposed curse Shango put on him that caused him to lose the WWF IC Title at Summer Slam 10/4/92 Wrestling Challenge - Bret Hart defeated Barry Hardy via submission at 2:30 via submission with the Sharpshooter; during the bout, Hart cut an insert promo saying he wasn't afraid of Papa Shango or his "curses"

I was looking at what happened with Bret post-Summerslam but before the title win. It looked like they were building to a house show run with Papa Shango, though there are a few shots with Kamala in there too.

Vince: "...they like Bret in Germany HOW much?"

i would have really loved the Steiners in the tag division in 95. Did we ever get Steiners vs Buck/Slater? I see a Sat Night taping with Rick vs Buck but that's about it. And some Rick and Scott vs Enos and Slater (which actually could be fun)

The single best moment of WCW in 95 is Bobby Eaton doing the jazz hands. It beats Dusty in the witch's hat.

You really wonder where they got half of these people. It's like the working group for Ted's scrapped building in How I Met Your Mother, where they got the lunch lady etc.

Mike Graham robbed us of the Dustin Rhodes heel turn and Hogan feud that's in my head.

I meant madness for me in my life as it is now. Just that I couldn't fathom dropping money on it right now. (and that's not wrestling in general. I bought the Will's Dangerous Alliance comp last year after all).