WCW ongoing thread

[Mad Dog]

I was watching some of Souled Out 98. The biggest thing that stood out is La Parka got a massive pop when he took out everyone in the match with a chair. It seems like they really missed the boat on him at the time.

[Strummer]

Something I didn't realize until just now. WCW scheduled Halloween Havoc 91 against game 7 of the World Series between the Braves and Twins (one of the most dramatic highly rated series of all time). To top that Ted Turner owned the Braves. Oh WCW

[Log]

Something I didn't realize until just now. WCW scheduled Halloween Havoc 91 against game 7 of the World Series between the Braves and Twins (one of the most dramatic highly rated series of all time). To top that Ted Turner owned the Braves. Oh WCW

To be fair, weren't the Braves a last-place team the year before? I'd imagine they weren't exactly expecting the Braves to be in that position when they scheduled the PPV.

[El-P]

Watching late 92 episodes of the Main Event, I got a kick out of two things : Madusa cutting short promos in Japanese (Rude was feuding with Chono leading to HH); Jim Ross talking about WCW going to Philly and dropping the name of Tod Gordon of all people, as he was promoting for them locally then (Viking Hall appears on house show listing during commercials too).

[NintendoLogic]

Something I didn't realize until just now. WCW scheduled Halloween Havoc 91 against game 7 of the World Series between the Braves and Twins (one of the most dramatic highly rated series of all time). To top that Ted Turner owned the Braves. Oh WCW

To be fair, weren't the Braves a last-place team the year before? I'd imagine they weren't exactly expecting the Braves to be in that position when they scheduled the PPV.

 

Beyond that, wasn't it always scheduled for the fourth Sunday in October?

[Strummer]

at the very least they would have known that there could have been a game 7 of a World Series on that date regardless of the teams. Still risky

[cm funk]

I've decided to go back and watch WCW's 1991 PPVS, which I haven't seen in 17-18 years probably

 

Starting with Wrestlewar 91. I enjoyed the opener of JYD/Ricky Morton/Tommy Rich against St. Patrol/Big Cat. It wasn't anything special, formulaic 6 man, Morton and JYD doing their usual paint by numbers stuff, but it was a good way to start off the show with some guys the crowd likes

 

Eaton v. Armstrong was technically very good, but kind of boring IMO. I know this goes against the grain here, but I've always found Eaton kind of dull in general, never lives up to all the hype he gets really. I don't really "get" his character either. Dusty hyping him up for his singles push and saying he's going to win a title was amusing, because IIRC Dusty was the booker at the time and they did put the TV title on him that year. Jason Hervey in the crowd was also amusing.

 

That's as far as I've gotten in the show so far. Random question.....when did Jesse the Body show up that year? This Ross-Dusty commentary team is pretty brutal to listen to

[El-P]

Eaton v. Armstrong was technically very good, but kind of boring IMO. I know this goes against the grain here, but I've always found Eaton kind of dull in general, never lives up to all the hype he gets really.

If there was anything dull about this match, it was Brad Armstrong, who's exactly what you describe to me : technically sound but dull and never living up to his reputation. Eaton working face is not as fun as him working heel, but really, he was the best wrestler in WCW in 1990, and once the Dangerous Alliance get started he's on fire again.

 

Random question.....when did Jesse the Body show up that year?

He shows up in 1992.

[cm funk]

I think maybe one of the reasons I don't "get" Eaton's character is that he's supposed to be a heel, but he just wrestles smart and proficient and doesn't really exude any heelish characteristics. He attacks Armstrong before the bell.....but it isn't even done in a way that makes you think he's scum for doing it. I'm really not sure if you're supposed to like or dislike the guy. With the Midnight Express everybody just hated Cornette, Eaton was just there, disliked by association......same thing when he was in the Dangerous Alliance.....just a guy who's there

 

which I guess is kind of the point, I just find him dreadfully boring most of the time

[cm funk]

Missy Hyatt: Women's rights advocate

 

her character was really great in 91-92

[cm funk]

Buddy Landel vs. Dustin Rhodes?!!?

 

I forgot Dustin was in WCW this early.....him and Dusty were in WWF shortly before this.

 

Crowd boos him, lol

[cm funk]

Landell v. Rhodes is a fun little match. I find Landell's jerkstore Buddy Rogers/Flair gimmick very entertaining, and I forgot how good young Dustin was

 

Dusty puts on a stuttering affect to punchline one of his comments about Dustin......foreshadowing Goldust's gimmick many years later? Did Dustin stutter as a kid?

[El-P]

I think maybe one of the reasons I don't "get" Eaton's character is that he's supposed to be a heel, but he just wrestles smart and proficient and doesn't really exude any heelish characteristics. He attacks Armstrong before the bell.....but it isn't even done in a way that makes you think he's scum for doing it. I'm really not sure if you're supposed to like or dislike the guy. With the Midnight Express everybody just hated Cornette, Eaton was just there, disliked by association......same thing when he was in the Dangerous Alliance.....just a guy who's there

 

which I guess is kind of the point, I just find him dreadfully boring most of the time

You haven't seen enough MX, that's all I can think about. Eaton has always been the workhorse, he's not the one who's supposed to be the most dastardly and arrogant one (Lane and especially Condrey were), but I don't see how his style wasn't heelish. The punch in the nose hidden from the referee, dropping the alabama jam while he's not the legal man, the agressiveness. I don't remember if Eaton was already a full fledge babyface by the time WW91 came, but as I said he was a babyface for most of the year, and it's not his best role. His work was still pretty flawless though.

[cm funk]

I've never really been a big fan of the MX, Cornette, or the Rock N Roll Express. Blasphemy, I know.

 

I've seen enough of them.....just not that hip to it

[El-P]

I've never really been a big fan of the MX, Cornette, or the Rock N Roll Express. Blasphemy, I know.

Not much "Blasphemy!", rather "Scratching my head about how can any wrestling fan not be a fan of Cornette & MX...". Well, I never quite got into pure lucha libre, so...

[Slasher]

I would take it a step further, I don't like tag team wrestling, period. RnRs vs MX is a big part of why.

[Loss]

I would take it a step further, I don't like tag team wrestling, period. RnRs vs MX is a big part of why.

I understand not liking tag team wrestling, but I don't understand liking wrestling and not liking tag team wrestling. What is your favorite kind of wrestling?

[Frankensteiner]

I would take it a step further, I don't like tag team wrestling, period. RnRs vs MX is a big part of why.

Hey! I'm in the same boat. I find southern tag wrestling pretty dull.

[El-P]

Don't get too excited about '93. January and February are lots of fun, then it nosedives fast, with a few bright spots here and there.

Holy shit were you right about that. As soon as Watts is removed and Ole gets the main booker position things get bad quick. It's not thet it gets bad, it's just that it gets unbelievably dull. I mean, I'm at mid- April, and it's like *nothing* has happened since Superbrawl. Seriously, expect the TV title tournament that I think was booked by Watts in advance anyway, or taped before he left (since Erik got to the final), it's complete status quo with no angle booked on TV basically. The Hollywood Blondes win the titles in the only big notable match on TV, but nothing happens with Rude (I know Dustin was injured then, but still, you get Rude cutting promos on everyone when he comes back, then nothing), no undercard feud, zilch. The worst of it is the booking of Flair, as he just gets boring after a week or two. Says or does nothing or note, basically a backdrop for Arn vs Windham feud (which would be cool if something would happen outside of Windham walking out on commenting about Flair for like 6 weeks straight). It just got this feeling of nothing happening, of complete dullness. Watt's TV the first months was painfull compared to the Dangerous Alliance days, but at least some stuff happened. Ole's product is all about nothing and squash matches with no angle. The only really bright spot of this period is Cactus vs Vader feud, and it is kinda tainted by the masochistic tendencies of Cactus (seriously, having his nose broken by vader was unecessary) and the fact that we know how it's gonna end up (Cactus amnesic on the streets). Like the impeding Horsemen angle is intriguing on paper (although moves way too slowly), but we know how it's gonna end up (Roma...). The build to Slamboree hasn't begun, but really, WCW hasn't been that boring since, well, the infamous Summer of 1990. Ole must be WCW's worst booker easily next to Russo.

[Loss]

It was actually Dusty and Ole booking together during this time, and this was during a time period when there was no actual Executive VP running WCW, so they were likely in a holding pattern because they had no idea what was going on or what the direction of the company was supposed to be. They couldn't do much with Flair because while the WWF did release him, the condition of his release was that he wasn't allowed to get in the ring until the would-be expiration date of his contract. So they just had him spinning his wheels all that time. I'm sure if they would have put some thought about it, six months to build up Ric Flair's first match back in WCW could have been HUGE with the right storyline, but they were absolutely in a lull.

[El-P]

I know Dusty was also involved, but wasn't Ole the main booker still ? The boring TV with only squash match reeks of Ole. And yeah, I know Flair wasn't allowed to wrestle until the date of his WWF contract had expired, but the way they handled Flair was painfully boring and empty after just a few weeks. And it was the same way up and down the card. Teasing the 4 Horsemen reunion was a nice idea I guess as it would have been the first time that the Horsemen would have been babyface (I don't count the small window in early 90 before thet dumped Sting), but it still felt like recycling from the past. I don't know, but in context this period seems really empty, especially after the hot two first months of the year.

[Matt D]

Ok, I KNOW that there was a huge roster turnover between Superbrawl and the Bash in 91. I know that there is the Scott Steiner injury. I know that Flair up and leaves, but really? Flair leaving and Scotty's injury just affects two matches and they work together. Scott and Windham get taken out of the tag cage match. Windham gets put into the main. That's fine makes sense.

 

It doesn't explain the rest of the card. Every single match on Superbrawl was built up well on TV, up and down the card. It was full of compelling match ups. Great American Bash is completely and utterly random. Only about half the matches get any build at all; there is such random crap on that card. Did the booking change in there? Dusty was already back for the Superbrawl build no?

[El-P]

Ok, I KNOW that there was a huge roster turnover between Superbrawl and the Bash in 91. I know that there is the Scott Steiner injury. I know that Flair up and leaves, but really? Flair leaving and Scotty's injury just affects two matches and they work together. Scott and Windham get taken out of the tag cage match. Windham gets put into the main. That's fine makes sense.

 

It doesn't explain the rest of the card. Every single match on Superbrawl was built up well on TV, up and down the card. It was full of compelling match ups. Great American Bash is completely and utterly random. Only about half the matches get any build at all; there is such random crap on that card. Did the booking change in there? Dusty was already back for the Superbrawl build no?

Completely random ? I wouldn't say that. PN News was feuding with Austin at the time over the TV title, and Eaton & Taylor were orbiting around this title too. The Southern Boys were feuding with the Freebirds for quite a while if I remember right (or was it still the beginning of their long feud ?). Ricky Morton vs Roberts Gibson was the logical follow-up tp Morton turning his back on the fans and joigning the York Foundation while Gibson was injured. Nikita Koloff vs Sting had been built well on TV too. Now, there were random, useless match up and down the card, but I'd say 2/3 of the card made sense. The card was still a disater though with nearly no good match, and the infamous Flair debacle. WCW really crumbled after Flair left and things really got interesting again only once Rude showed up at Havoc and the Dangerous Alliance was formed. 1991 is an odd year anyway, as the world title picture really is mostly fucked up all year long by terrible booking : Flair vs Gigante ? Flair vs Fujinami, who no one knew in the US ? Then Luger winning the belt in the worst case scenario with the most anticlimatic heel turn ever against a former heel working face for no reason; the first Ron Simmons push to main event (actually worked better that the second time to me). The main things I liked that year were the York Foundation and Steve Austin in the mid-card.

[El-P]

I had no idea the Blackharts worked in WCW for a while. It's a shame these guy were never pushed, they had a cool little gimmick and look, and could work pretty well. Actually I think I just witnessed the first ever pedigree, or at least some form of it. No idea if that's Gangrel or his partner who did it though.

[El-P]

There it is, I'm at the point where watching WCW gives me headaches. For the first time since I began my WCW project with 1989, I'm finding the product so bad it's embarrassing. And it's not because of a lack of talent in the roster. In term of matches, Clash 23 was actually very good, with the great Scorp vs Windham match, a cool 6-man which had Dustin Rhodes really shine against Rude/Vader and Sid (who did look useless compared to the other two of course), and the fun Hollywwod Blonds vs Arn/Flair (fun because of the work, not the bad booking). Plus Lord Steven debuts around this time, so there is some good stuff.

 

But the TV is just marred with god awful segments, highlighted by the rotten triumvirat of suck that are Cheatum the Evil Midget/Searching for Cactus Jack/Flair for the Gold. There is not much left in term of good match on TV despite the quality workers. Babyface Horsemen with Roma just don't work, Roma's implication makes the thing awkward as hell. As heels maybe it wouldn't have been so bad, but Roma as a face working along Arn and Flair is pretty eye gouging. I'm not particulary fond of Flair's comeback either, as it sets the time machine back 3 years, and it didn't mean anything at the box office. I'm already dreading Flair vs Rude feud, as I remember the matches being quite boring. As it wasn't enough, you get the Assassin calling Dusty Rhodes every week on TV. Thrilling.

 

This is clearly the lowest point ever hit by WCW thus far, as even the boring Summer of 1990, the months of Black Scorpion and the beginning of Bill Watts were far from being just this shitty.