El-P Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I don't hate it as much as Liger pinning people with slaps. Blasphemy. Liger slapping people is the greatest thing in pro-wrestling. I should watch that instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Any suplex double pin is utterly retarded. Similarly, when a guy is counted down when applying a submission (be it figure-four or surfboard or whatever). How is that a cover by the other guy? At worst it should be a 10-count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I don't hate it as much as Liger pinning people with slaps. Blasphemy. Liger slapping people is the greatest thing in pro-wrestling. I should watch that instead. Resulting in pinfall victories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I don't hate it as much as Liger pinning people with slaps. Blasphemy. Liger slapping people is the greatest thing in pro-wrestling. I should watch that instead. Resulting in pinfall victories? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I don't hate it as much as Liger pinning people with slaps. Blasphemy. Liger slapping people is the greatest thing in pro-wrestling. I should watch that instead. Resulting in pinfall victories? I'm not a huge fan of that finish, but it's not even my least favorite Liger finish. That would be reserved for the Thesz press thing he uses a lot nowadays which isn't always awful but is even more anti-climactic than a palm strike. Also Mitch Snow pinning people in the AWA with a hiptoss week after week was ri-fucking-diculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Are we talking about the shotei or an actual slap? Wasn't Bas knocking guys out with palm strikes in Pancrase (presumably where he picked it up)? I don't see how the shotei is any different than Misawa's elbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negro Suave Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Any suplex double pin is utterly retarded. Similarly, when a guy is counted down when applying a submission (be it figure-four or surfboard or whatever). How is that a cover by the other guy? At worst it should be a 10-count. I always liked these when done well. I never had a problem with these as an analogue to the "sport" of professional wrestling. An own goal counts, why wouldn't a self pin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Are we talking about the shotei or an actual slap? Wasn't Bas knocking guys out with palm strikes in Pancrase (presumably where he picked it up)? I don't see how the shotei is any different than Misawa's elbow. Yes, the shotei. Because it's an open-handed slap. Doesn't bother me in the course of a match. Don't care for it as a finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 The problem I have with the double suplex pin is that it seems like 99 time out of 100 the person doing the suplex seems to be purposely doing a shitty job of the move so that they both wind up on the mat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Like Mike said. Anyone doing a German suplex into a pin bridges on their neck and keeps their shoulders off the mat. When a double pin is called for they suddenly don't. It'd be one thing if the guy taking the move forces and holds them onto their shoulders and stops them doing the bridge. Of course, that only makes you ask yourself why they didn't have the awareness or capability to get their own shoulders up. The "double pin" really only works in a cradle where both people can feasibly be trapping the other and trying to escape (unsuccessfully). As for the "own goal" element of it, they have that with moves backfiring (it's the most common transition in wrestling). Finally, if the shotei is a legit KO strike in martial arts, how is it a weak finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Lots of moves that would be legit KO strikes in martial arts make for shitty pro wrestling finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Lots of moves that would be legit KO strikes in martial arts make for shitty pro wrestling finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Lots of moves that would be legit KO strikes in martial arts make for @#!*% pro wrestling finishes. Like Ron Garvin's punch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Eh, different strokes I guess; of all the moves in wrestling capable of knocking a guy out for three seconds, a shotei is easilly in the bottom half of any "worst finishers" list for me. It doesn't need a huge bump from Ohtani for me to buy that it could knock someone out cold. They're much more devastating than a punch (which're illegal anyway ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 A shotei or a punch really are more "realistic" than 99% other wrestling moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 A shotei or a punch really are more "realistic" than 99% other wrestling moves. Precisely why it sucks. Wrestling isn't better when it's more "real". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 A shotei or a punch really are more "realistic" than 99% other wrestling moves. Precisely why it sucks. Wrestling isn't better when it's more "real". Who said it was ? But I just don't see what the problem is with it being a finisher. I'd rather have this as a finisher than say, a fucking legdrop. So, Jerry lawler using 169 punches in one match is great, but a short stocky japanese guy in a demon superhero costume slapping people around isn't ? Come on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 LAWLER DIDN'T USE A PUNCH AS A FINISHER. I have said this several times, please stop ignoring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 LAWLER DIDN'T USE A PUNCH AS A FINISHER. I have said this several times, please stop ignoring it. Well, "a punch as a finisher" is better than "a punch as 90% of your offense" to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Not really. Liger should have better finishers than Johnny B. Badd. Strikes are part of all wrestling matches. You are creating a false equivalency between using a knockout finish and using punches during wrestling matches. I said multiple times that Liger using it as a transition move doesn't bother me. And yes, I'd say the same thing about the heart punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Not really. Liger should have better finishers than Johnny B. Badd. Strikes are part of all wrestling matches. You are creating a false equivalency between using a knockout finish and using punches during wrestling matches. I said multiple times that Liger using it as a transition move doesn't bother me. Lawler using a thousand punches bothers me. Liger using a shotei as a finisher doesn't. Once it's accepted as a finisher and looks good, everything can be a good finisher. It's all about perception. Plus it's Japan where a lariat has been a finisher for years, which would be unthinkable in the States. Really don't have a problem with it. Funny fact, I just watched a squash match from Dan Spivey from WCW TV in 89. He used three powerbombs in a row. Not one. Three. The announcers had no name for it. They didn't sell it like it was immediate death. And it wasn't the finisher of the match, which ended up being a weak side slam a la-Big Bossman. Surrealistic. And yes, I'd say the same thing about the heart punch. The heart punch sucks. It's neither realistic nor cool looking nor brutal looking nor anything, it usually looks like shit and is used mostly by supremely shitty wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 The lariat has been used as a finisher in the U.S. and it's been relatively accepted. JBL is the most recent example. The clothesline is a spectacular enough wrestling move that I have no problem with it. I agree with the general premise that if you protect something, you can get it over as a finisher, but that seems like a finisher you'd give someone who can't do anything else. Liger is capable of much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I must say I've enjoyed Big Show's knockout punch finisher the last few years. Again it's actually been protected (don't think anyone's ever kicked out) and the crowd reacts to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 The lariat has been used as a finisher in the U.S. and it's been relatively accepted. JBL is the most recent example. And probably the only one I can think off in the last 30 years. JBL stiffed the fuck out of his opponents with his lariat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 The shotei palm thrust is a very good finisher. I've been sold on it ever since the legendary Lyger vs Ohtani match from March of 96. And speaking of Bas Rutten, he single handidly sold me on strikes to the kidneys. Now whenever I watch a wrestling match all I can think of is how lethal blows to the stomach area are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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