WCW ongoing thread

[El-P]

Well ok then, that makes even more sense if they were childhood friends. I'd guess that they grew up and one guy became a referee and the other went nuts and ended up in the nuthouse. I'd guess that Norman had no one else so Teddy stepped up and became his POA in order to use his old friend for his now nefarious purposes.

 

Now as soon as Norman went face I had no use for him.

I have never seen heel Norman, so now I'm curious to see how he worked. You make it sound like he was WCW's version of Doink. He was a decent enough worker in Calgary, so let's see.

 

Also, my Old Man looking over his newspaper and seeing "Norman The Lunatic" on TV had him laughing his ass off at the whole thing. It's a memory we still share to this day and bring up to make each other laugh.

I have the same kind of shared memory with my father about Royal Rumble 93 and Guy Hauray making fun of Bob Backlund. And my father also uses some Eddie Carpentier lines from time to time.

[El-P]

I agree on some of this. I don't think he got divorced until a decade or so later, but 'family man' Ricky Steamboat came across as very lame as a kid.

Yeah. I admit the "soon to divorce him" was unpredictable back then, but really, this man is called the Dragon, spitting fire is way cooler than coming up with a baby on a poney. Well, at least his wife was hot. I would have loved to have Flair just made some proposition to the hot wife, now that would have been more fun.

 

In retrospect, it was an angle that might have worked in 1980 as opposed to 1989 as the culture was changing.

Steamboat could have used another feud after he won the title before going back to Flair. Windham might have been a good stop gap, but he left almost immediately after Chi Town Rumble. As it was, Ricky came across as a slightly better version of Ron Garvin.

You know what, that's exactly what I thought about Steamboat : better version of Ronnie Garvin, word for word.

 

Also, Brock/ Rock at SummerSlam '02 had some nice 'pro sports build' vignettes and that worked really well. I think it really just depends on the character and dynamics as opposed to saying it just isn't a good idea.

Yes, of course. Ric Flair and pure sport build don't go hand in hand.

The biggest match that hasn't happened in the 90's to me is really Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat. I think Hart was a more interesting *character* than Ricky, and together they would have had some amazing matches probably.

[El-P]

More WCW goodness :

_Ricky Santana on my TV, and man did he look good squashing some jobber. I never think this guy was actually good after I saw him (I think that was him) under a hood in IWA Japan

_Rick Steiner's love interest played by Nancy Sullivan. They sure made her look like a complete geek, and with the fashion trends of 1989, it was not hard to do. Of course she gets brutalized a bit by Kevin Sullivan. The more I watch Sullivan, the more I enjoy him. He was a great squash worker. Squashes really could make a storyline progress with small things happening on the side, without having to find ways to protect people.

_and I saw the damnest video vignette EVER : a blonde Scott Hall with the porn stache fishing on a boat, playing volleyball, swimming with good looking girls, and hunting alligators, all with James Bond's theme !! Fuck Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat, this is why I watch these old TV shows !

_Terry Funk getting confronted by Sting who is sick of Funk making fun of Flair. Of all people, Sting is gonna defend Flair. If only he knew how many time he would get sucked in and betrayed in the following decade... Anyway, this was good and really makes you want to see that match.

[El-P]

"If I have to step on Ricky Steamboat and his family, I will. That includes that little pig-nosed half-breed child of him". Terry Funk is awesome.

[Loss]

That's the promo where Luger interrupts the tape and does the promo of his life, correct?

[El-P]

That's the promo where Luger interrupts the tape and does the promo of his life, correct?

Yep and yep. I was watching Luger and thought "This is a money promo".

 

On the same show you had Great Muta spraying Missy Hyatt in the face with the green mist. I guess having something green sprayed in her face was a first for Missy.

Oh, and Muta, vs Glacier, well, kinda. And probably the first Steiner brother televised match in WCW. Suplex are finally showing up. And Jack Victory doing yet another JTTS gimmick under the New Zealand Militia gimmick. This guy couldn't get a break, but man, could he work and make people look good. Some of the greatest punches too.

[Bix]

One of the forgotten old WON/smark conventional wisdoms was how awesome Jack Victory was. When Shawn Michaels first showed up, the debate was whether or not he was as awesome a rookie prodigy as Jack Victory.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Well ok then, that makes even more sense if they were childhood friends. I'd guess that they grew up and one guy became a referee and the other went nuts and ended up in the nuthouse. I'd guess that Norman had no one else so Teddy stepped up and became his POA in order to use his old friend for his now nefarious purposes.

 

Now as soon as Norman went face I had no use for him.

I have never seen heel Norman, so now I'm curious to see how he worked. You make it sound like he was WCW's version of Doink. He was a decent enough worker in Calgary, so let's see.

 

Also, my Old Man looking over his newspaper and seeing "Norman The Lunatic" on TV had him laughing his ass off at the whole thing. It's a memory we still share to this day and bring up to make each other laugh.

I have the same kind of shared memory with my father about Royal Rumble 93 and Guy Hauray making fun of Bob Backlund. And my father also uses some Eddie Carpentier lines from time to time.

 

By "WCW's version of Doink", do you mean "gimmick that initially was cool but many people just remember it as stupid because of where it went?" Cause Norman and Doink have nothing besides that in common.

[GSR]

I'm watching the same WCW set as El-P at the moment but am a bit further on in my viewing of it (trying to intersperse it with keeping up on my MMA watching), but Luger has been fantastic all year so far. Motivated in the ring and the interview referenced earlier (from the 6/10 show) was quality, he is basically irate and annoyed that he isn't on the Clash card, and as US champion he should be the numbe one contender. He then claims that Steamboat snuck into get the gold whilst he was busy with the US title, has had his chance, and should now step aside, and that he'll be at the Clash whether the powers that be like it or not.

 

A couple of weeks after this interview there is more great heel goodness from Lex when he interrupts a Sting promo who is disappointed at Luger's actions at the Clash, and Lex claims that Sting should be greatful for everything that he has done for him and how if Steamboat wants to avoid him he needs to give up his number one ranking.

 

Terry Funk has been awesome in everything that he has done so far. I don't know if you have got that far yet but on the show after you last posted about, he has an enjoyable squash against Cougar Jay on the 6/24 show where he is being pelted by rubbish and Jay takes a couple of great bumps to the floor. In my viewing I am upto where Jim Herd has suspended Funk indefinately for his actions at the Clash (trying to suffocate Flair with the plastic bag). Both Gary Hart and Funk are superb in this section where Jim Ross is reading the letter from Herd. The say how they wont take the punishment lying down, and what about Flair's punishment for attacking Funk and injuring his elbow with the branding iron? Funk then says how he did bag Flair and would do it again, but then tells the kids at home not to do what he did, which I felt was an awesome thing for a heel to come out with.

 

The same show features the debut of Tom Zenk (against Mike Awesome of all people) and, bar the hokey looking Sleeper finisher, Zenk looked great, plus the continuation of the Steiners/Woman/Missy angle. I have to say that Nancy has been fantastic in this whole angle from day one. It is at the stage where someone tripped Scott at the Clash show and because of the camera angle you didn't know who it was, whether it was Woman or Missy (although in fairness Missy has been completely pointless and a waste of time with the Steiners here). Also, there was a strange incident in Scott's squash against Gene Ligon where Scott got whipped into the ropes, falls through them and takes an unplanned bump to the floor. I thought that this was a botch at first, but I think it may have been planned to show that *maybe* at the Clash Scott tripped on his own and it wasn't one of the girls.

 

Anyway, this whole set has been tremendous and I would take this over today's product (which I rarely watch now) any day.

[El-P]

By "WCW's version of Doink", do you mean "gimmick that initially was cool but many people just remember it as stupid because of where it went?"

That's what I meant.

That said, after witnessing the debut of Norman, I highly doubt I'll enjoy his run at all...

 

Finally saw the debut of the Ding Dongs too. Seriously, what the fuck was that ? Corporate people stucking their nose into wrestling, it begins to show a little bit. Ross dropping "that was horrible" at the end of the match is really funny.

[El-P]

Anyway, this whole set has been tremendous and I would take this over today's product (which I rarely watch now) any day.

Totally agree.

[artDDP]

How come in WCW Roddy Piper, Lex Luger, and Goldberg all got clean wins over Hogan but Sting never could?

[BBscout]

How come in WCW Roddy Piper, Lex Luger, and Goldberg all got clean wins over Hogan but Sting never could?

I always thought of it as Sting is still one guy Hogan never pinned though. 0 for 5.

[Dylan Waco]

All of the Funk squashes from 89 are great for one reason or another by the Cougar Jay squash is insane. Jay appears to be totally untrained and takes those two bumps on the floor face first and full impact like he was tope'ing air. The Hall and Eddy squashes are well know, but the Ricky Santana one is also really great and worth looking out for.

[Loss]

The Brad Armstrong one too.

[Victator]

The great lost NWA team is the Jive Tones, Tiger Conway Jr and Shaska Watley. They did not have many non squashes on TBS but I look forward to seeing them on these NWA episodes. They did this brutal looking Double Russian Legsweep for a finisher. One match they hit Mike Jackson with a Double Facebuster like the SST used then picked him up and hit the Russian Legsweep in one motion.

 

They would wear top hats and bowties so as a kid I thought they were somehow related to the Fantastics. Really entertaining promos too.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The great lost NWA team is the Jive Tones, Tiger Conway Jr and Shaska Watley. They did not have many non squashes on TBS but I look forward to seeing them on these NWA episodes. They did this brutal looking Double Russian Legsweep for a finisher. One match they hit Mike Jackson with a Double Facebuster like the SST used then picked him up and hit the Russian Legsweep in one motion.

 

They would wear top hats and bowties so as a kid I thought they were somehow related to the Fantastics. Really entertaining promos too.

My watching was pretty sporadic by that point and I never saw the Jive Tones. But between this description and them getting mentioned recently on one of the DVDVR/ Segunda podcasts, I really want to see them. That finisher sounds fucking sick, and I always liked Pistol Pez/ Shaska.

[Victator]

Here is the squash against Mike Jackson and Gary Royal. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiisf2_ji...a-2-13-88_sport

[Johnny Sorrow]

Here is the squash against Mike Jackson and Gary Royal. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiisf2_ji...a-2-13-88_sport

Thanks man, that fucking ruled.

 

I can picture the Alabama Junior Heavyweight Championship belt being found in some hillbilly's barn during an episode of American Pickers. Was Gary Royal related to NWA Jr. Heavyweight Champion Nelson Royal?

[JadedWrestling]

Having just watched Bash at the Beach 96 I'm still marking out over the incredible Rey vs Psychosis opener... but I have to say, Public Enemy vs the Nasties in a Dog Collar match was far more entertaining that I could ever have imagined. "You can do much more with a surfboard than you can with a rubber shark." is just a crazily awesome line of commentary.

 

Oh, and yeah, the post-main event stuff is pretty good as well.

[El-P]

All of the Funk squashes from 89 are great for one reason or another by the Cougar Jay squash is insane. Jay appears to be totally untrained and takes those two bumps on the floor face first and full impact like he was tope'ing air. The Hall and Eddy squashes are well know, but the Ricky Santana one is also really great and worth looking out for.

Cougar Jay is my favourite jobber thus far. Love that Snake guy too.

[Victator]

Here is the squash against Mike Jackson and Gary Royal. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiisf2_ji...a-2-13-88_sport

Thanks man, that fucking ruled.

 

I can picture the Alabama Junior Heavyweight Championship belt being found in some hillbilly's barn during an episode of American Pickers. Was Gary Royal related to NWA Jr. Heavyweight Champion Nelson Royal?

 

I don't think so. Nelson Royal turns up on TV occasionally. Gary Royal reminds me of the sad saga of Destroyer. He started as the Super Destroyer. A masked wrestler from the notorious West Coast wrestling leagues. They hype his debut thru out the show. Things seem amiss when he gets put with Tony Stuber. Stuber was this really big jobber. Big enough he would get offense in against the Horsemen. Destroyer has difficulty putting away Stuber. Even locks on an extended Cobra Clutch. Then Stuber gets the pin on a power slam. He gets so excited he forgets to do a promo.

 

So the next week he is Super Destroyer teaming with Larry Zybysco vs the Road Warriors. The Roadies beat up Larry for a few minutes. Larry tags out goes "Fuck it" and walks out. Leaving Super Destroyer to be killed.

 

By his next appearance he is now Destroyer with no pretense of mattering.

[Dylan Waco]

Having just watched Bash at the Beach 96 I'm still marking out over the incredible Rey vs Psychosis opener... but I have to say, Public Enemy vs the Nasties in a Dog Collar match was far more entertaining that I could ever have imagined. "You can do much more with a surfboard than you can with a rubber shark." is just a crazily awesome line of commentary.

 

Oh, and yeah, the post-main event stuff is pretty good as well.

Psicosis v. Rey is a brilliant match and aside from the obvious lack of a compelling storyline interest is every bit as good as Rey v. Eddy from HH 97.

[MJH]

Eh, I'd disagree, I think it's pretty much the '90s Dynamite/Sayama in a lot of ways. It's as spectacular as Havoc, but it's basically a spot-fest and not an altogether well laid out one; it's very up-and-down. They'd do a few great spots and then take it back down to the mat (and not in a good way). Even Rey when he makes his first comeback takes it back to the mat; he follows a rana off the apron and a springboard rana with a toehold, and then when Psicosis quickly comes back from that his first spot is a figure-four headscissors. Then you have Psicosis following up a top-rope senton to the floor with a camel clutch and a hammerlock to lead into Rey doing the hanging snapmare and go into his comeback. How that's in anyway different to Dynamite doing a few spots and going into the headscissors just to feed the comeback is beyond me. The last few minutes they stick with one big spot after another, but the match was all over the place for much of the way. It's far more spectacular (as it should be) than Dynamite/Sayama, and the work is smoother (everything looks great), but it's a poorly laid out spot fest to me.

[Dylan Waco]

I don't think there is a single thing about the match that resembles DK v. Sayama in any way other than "little guys doing big offense." Granted I have not watched the match in a couple of years but that is a vibe I've never gotten from that match.