WWF Ongoing Thread

[goc]

Yeah, Bulldog was a late scratch for 'Taker from what I remember.

 

Similarly, wasn't X-Pac a late scratch for Ken Shamrock, who I think just quit the promotion a week before that match?

 

I remember Wade's review of that match for some reason. He was upset that X-Pac audibly called a spot and Jim Ross brushed it off as "talking trash". He said in this day and age the announcers should just say that the wrestlers are calling spots.

That's retarded. Why the hell would you want the announcer to say "I think we're about to see Jericho DDT X-Pac here since we just heard him call that spot" Sorry that shit only works for JCW

[ohtani's jacket]

Ricky Steamboat vs. Brutus Beefcake, 5/26/85

 

I've been meaning to watch this for a while as Beefcake had a shocking decent run in 1985, but this was dreck from Steamboat. There are some guys who can go through the motions and still be reasonably entertaining but not Steamboat. His schtick was so heavily built on fired up babyface selling that if they're not working at a certain speed and adding fuel to the fire his shit looks hokey. We'll call it the Tito Santana conundrum, in that Tito needed to be fired up for his matches to be good, but unlike Steamboat, Tito's selling wasn't goofy looking when the match was tepid.

[goc]

Ricky Steamboat vs. Brutus Beefcake, 5/26/85

 

I've been meaning to watch this for a while as Beefcake had a shocking decent run in 1985, but this was dreck from Steamboat. There are some guys who can go through the motions and still be reasonably entertaining but not Steamboat. His schtick was so heavily built on fired up babyface selling that if they're not working at a certain speed and adding fuel to the fire his shit looks hokey. We'll call it the Tito Santana conundrum, in that Tito needed to be fired up for his matches to be good, but unlike Steamboat, Tito's selling wasn't goofy looking when the match was tepid.

This post makes me think a discussion about guys who were really only good at working one pace or style would be an interesting topic.

[ohtani's jacket]

Roddy Piper vs. Randy Savage, Hamilton, Ontario 12/13/86

 

Man, was Piper over as a babyface or what? Super fun houseshow match between these two. It was wrestled pretty much perfectly for a houseshow audience with a lot of big, easy to follow action. A little on the short side, but plenty of intensity. Crowd got what they wanted even if Piper didn't win the belt.

[ohtani's jacket]

The Piper/Orndorff feud

 

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, MSG 7/13/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, Capital Centre 7/20/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, Philadelphia 7/27/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, Boston 8/3/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, Philadelphia 8/24/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, SNME 10/5/85

 

This was a heck of a feud. The mic work from Orndorff to set up his face turn was incredibly lame, but from New York to Washington through to Philly and Boston this feud was hot. What impressed me most was that while all the matches were short, intense, violent brawls and they all followed the same basic match structure there was very little in the way of repetition of spots. It was only really by the time they got to Boston that they started rehashing some of their earlier stuff. The first three matches from July are fabulous. The MSG match is probably the most complete of the three in terms of a full match, but the Cap Centre and Philly matches do a great job of continuing where the MSG match left off. The only real fault in the three match run is that the finish to the Cap Centre match is a bit awkward, but they make up for it with some wild post-match antics. The second Philly match is basically the set-up for a Piper/Orton vs. Orndorff/Sammartino program that I wasn't interested in watching and the SNME match rather than delivering a payoff is a truncated version of their houseshow circuit. I guess the lack of a blowoff match is fairly typical with 80s WWF, but it would've been nice to see a decisive outcome before Orndorff moved on to his Hogan program.

[ohtani's jacket]

The Piper/Snuka feud

 

Jimmy Snuka vs. Roddy Piper, St. Louis 5/5/84

Jimmy Snuka vs. Roddy Piper, Philadelphia 7/7/84

Jimmy Snuka vs. Roddy Piper, MSG 8/25/84

Jimmy Snuka vs. Roddy Piper, Boston 3/2/85

Jimmy Snuka vs. Roddy Piper, Philadelphia 3/17/85

 

This stood in sharp contrast to the Piper/Orndorff feud in that it began with a classic angle but the matches were piss weak. The problem here was two-fold. Firstly, no matter how over or popular Snuka was, he didn't have the charisma or acting skills to get across his anger. The stone cold stare he gives Piper before their MSG match is kind of cool, but it doesn't translate into an electrifying match. It was almost like he was taking a cool, calm, calculated approach, but would end up getting his ass kicked by Piper. Orndorff was awful on the mic and his acting seemed forced or unnatural at times, but he at least got across that he was full of rage and that he wouldn't let anyone collect the bounty on his head no matter how fucked up he was at the end of the match. The other problem was that Piper was in full on stooge mode for most of the matches. Instead of the violent brawls he had with Orndorff, you'd get stereotypical heel/face schtick. The feud should have been bloodier and more intense than Piper/Ordnorff, but it was painfully run of the mill. The angle at the end of the MSG match is well done and makes Piper seem like a maniac, but that's about the only highlight from this feud.

[Jingus]

The other problem was that Piper was in full on stooge mode for most of the matches. Instead of the violent brawls he had with Orndorff, you'd get stereotypical heel/face schtick. The feud should have been bloodier and more intense than Piper/Ordnorff, but it was painfully run of the mill. The angle at the end of the MSG match is well done and makes Piper seem like a maniac, but that's about the only highlight from this feud.

Check out the tag match from MSG with Piper/Schultz vs Snuka/Andre for something more along the lines of what you wished for.

[ohtani's jacket]

Roddy Piper vs. Bob Orton Jr., Philadelphia 11/8/86

Roddy Piper vs. Bob Orton Jr., SNME 11/29/86

 

These were pretty disappointing considering their break-up was a pretty big deal. The Philly match has its moments when they're brawling and with some of the offense Orton brings, but I wasn't feeling the Piper as face and Orton as heel dynamic, and Piper ran through him fair too easily. The SNME was the usual five minute nonsense.

 

Roddy Piper vs. Adrian Adonis, Buffalo, NY 12/27/86

Roddy Piper vs. Adrian Adonis, Toronto 2/15/87

 

The Buffalo match was again pretty much a perfect houseshow match. Roddy started out like a house on fire until Hart managed to turn the tables. Piper then sold for some time while the crowd screamed for him to make a comeback and Adonis bumped big for the finish. Simple stuff, but well done. The Toronto match had a whole bunch of interference from Hart, Roddy being blinded by Adrian's perfume and a whole bunch of other carry on. It was the kind of match that made me a fan of wrestling as a kid as the action was simple to follow and the heels and face were so clearly delineated. Not a great match or anything, but a lot of fun and better than most Adonis matches from this era or Piper matches for that matter.

 

Roddy Piper vs. Randy Savage, Miami 1/22/90

 

Pretty typical Macho King Randy Savage match. Roddy's physique looked different during this comeback. I couldn't figure out whether he was out of shape or it was some kind of side effect on being on the gas. The long hair look didn't really suit him, I thought. Piper got his hands on Sherri towards the end of the match and the camera man gave us a super close-up of her thong. Amazingly, both Mooney and Lord Alfred Hayes refrained from commenting on it. Panty shot was probably the highlight of the match.

 

Roddy Piper vs. Don Muraco, Boston 11/1/86

Roddy Piper vs. Don Muraco, Maple Leaf Gardens 11/16/86

 

Man, this Muraco matches were the worst. Fucking Don Muraco. Everytime you think it's going to the one Don Muraco match from the mid 80s where he doesn't suck ass and everytime he's awful.

[ohtani's jacket]

The other problem was that Piper was in full on stooge mode for most of the matches. Instead of the violent brawls he had with Orndorff, you'd get stereotypical heel/face schtick. The feud should have been bloodier and more intense than Piper/Ordnorff, but it was painfully run of the mill. The angle at the end of the MSG match is well done and makes Piper seem like a maniac, but that's about the only highlight from this feud.

Check out the tag match from MSG with Piper/Schultz vs Snuka/Andre for something more along the lines of what you wished for.

 

All right, I will. I've been mostly concentrating on Piper singles matches, but if there are any good tags fire away.

[ohtani's jacket]

I didn't buy Piper and Schultz doing that to Andre. I did like the Piper/Orton vs. Snuka/Tongan Kid tag, however.

 

Roddy Piper vs. Bruno Sammartino, Boston 12/7/85

Roddy Piper vs. Bruno Sammartino, cage match, Boston 2/8/86

 

These were better than they had a right to be. It was basically the same sort of stooging performance from the Piper/Snuka series, but Bruno was a lot more believable dishing out a beating to Piper and the matches were pretty fun.

 

Roddy Piper vs. Rick Rude, MSG 9/30/89

 

This had the same kind of problems as the Toronto match I talked about earlier in this thread. Piper vs. Rude was a good idea for a feud, but instead of doing the short, frenetic brawls that have been entertaining me over the past few days, they'd start out going hammer and tongs, then Rude would take control of the match and do all of his restholds. Piper would fight back, the match would be thrown out in inspid fashion, they'd brawl about ringside a bit and nothing would be settled. Only the first few matches are worth watching, unless you're a glutton for Rude's camel clutch.

[jdw]

The Piper/Orndorff feud

 

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, MSG 7/13/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, Capital Centre 7/20/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, Philadelphia 7/27/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, Boston 8/3/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, Philadelphia 8/24/85

Roddy Piper vs. Paul Orndorff, SNME 10/5/85

 

This was a heck of a feud. The mic work from Orndorff to set up his face turn was incredibly lame, but from New York to Washington through to Philly and Boston this feud was hot. What impressed me most was that while all the matches were short, intense, violent brawls and they all followed the same basic match structure there was very little in the way of repetition of spots. It was only really by the time they got to Boston that they started rehashing some of their earlier stuff. The first three matches from July are fabulous. The MSG match is probably the most complete of the three in terms of a full match, but the Cap Centre and Philly matches do a great job of continuing where the MSG match left off. The only real fault in the three match run is that the finish to the Cap Centre match is a bit awkward, but they make up for it with some wild post-match antics. The second Philly match is basically the set-up for a Piper/Orton vs. Orndorff/Sammartino program that I wasn't interested in watching and the SNME match rather than delivering a payoff is a truncated version of their houseshow circuit. I guess the lack of a blowoff match is fairly typical with 80s WWF, but it would've been nice to see a decisive outcome before Orndorff moved on to his Hogan program.

It's pretty typical of the WWF to have tag blow offs. The Tito-Savage was blown off in tags. Anyway, the rest of the available feud:

 

Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Hulk Hogan, Spectrum 6/29/85

Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Andre the Giant, MSG 8/10/85

Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Bruno Sammartino, Spectrum 9/28/85

Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Bruno Sammartino, Steel Cage Match, Spectrum 10/26/85

Roddy Piper & Bob Orton vs Paul Orndorff & Bruno Sammartino, Boston 1/11/86

 

My recollection is that the cage match was pretty entertaining.

 

They "roles revered" matches later:

 

Roddy Piper & Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff & Harley Race, MSG 11/24/86

Roddy Piper & Hulk Hogan & Billy Jack Haynes vs Paul Orndorff & Adrian Adonis & Hercules, Boston 3/7/87

Roddy Piper & Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff & Kamala, Spectrum 3/14/87

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

Can't imagine Bruno was up to much in those 86 matches. Was he still considered a draw in 86?

[Bix]

All of those mid 80s Bruno brawls are pretty awesome and yes he was still a draw then.

 

Hell, he was still a draw in 2007.

[Victator]

From what I have seen, Bruno was a hell of a brawler.

[Matt D]

I love the Andre tag, for what it's worth.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Can't imagine Bruno was up to much in those 86 matches. Was he still considered a draw in 86?

Bruno was still the fucking MAN to many people in the Northeast. Let me share a story I've told before.

 

My Mom took me and a few pals to see WrestleMania 1 live on giant closed circuit TV at the Philly Spectrum, cause MSG was sold out. We were 14. She brought along a few Cosmos to read, and her needlepoint. At the end of the David Sammartino/ Beefcake match when Bruno ran in and cleaned house the entire Spectrum was on it's feet going crazy..including my Mom who'd dropped her needlepoint and was jumping up and down cheering for Bruno to kick some ass..because when she was a kid...Bruno was a hero to her. She had never even told me that for some reason, but at that moment she dropped her guard and revealed that at one time she had been a fan. And to Italian kids of the 60's, Bruno was GOD.

 

And he was totally a draw in 86. The only reason David had a job was to get Bruno to wrestle now and again. I've always wanted to see that Baltimore Hogan and Bruno vs Bundy and One Man Gang match.

[ohtani's jacket]

Hogan vs. Orndorff

 

Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, Philadelphia 9/20/86

Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, DQ rule waived, Phildelphia 10/18/86

Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, cage match, Philadelphia 12/13/86

 

This feud happened a few years before I got into wrestling and despite being a fan for about 25 years I never had the inclination to watch it. That all changed yesterday. As with Orndorff's face turn, both the acting and execution of the angle could've been a hell of a lot better to set-up this feud, but I did like how the heels were like one big fraternity in 1986 with Bundy, Studd and Adonis all congratulating Orndorff backstage. I also thought a lot of the other details of the feud like the promos, Orndorff stealing Hogan's music and Hogan continually biting on that string bandana thing he wore were weak compared to a lot of other 80s WWF feuds. I couldn't really understand why the piledriver was used so sparingly in terms of the psychology, either, but I guess it wasn't put over that much during Orndorff's turn. Anyway, their Big Event match and the SNME matches were largely rubbish. The 10/86 title match was okay, but it was an excuse to push the Adonis/Piper feud and ultimately worthless.

 

I did, however, discover this series of matches from Philly that I thought were really fun. The first match is more or less the 10/86 title match, but with blood and a brass knuckles spot that winds up getting Hogan DQ'ed. Hogan's selling is strong in this match and while Orndorff's brawling isn't quite as good as it is in the Piper feud he still puts in a good performance. This leads to a rematch where the DQ rule is waived meaning that the title can change hands on a disqualification. Heenan and Orndorff try to goad Hogan into DQ'ing himself and again there's blood and some decent brawling. I actually saw the same match from Houston (like literally the same match), but there wasn't any blood and it was shot like a studio match which made it seem odd. The blowoff, if you can call it that, is a better version of their SNME cage match, again with blood. It's a WWF cage match so it won't appeal to everyone, but I grew up with WWF cage match rules and they seem normal to me. I don't know what else is available from this period, but comparing the gimmick matches in Philly and then Houston, the way the matches got blood at the Spectrum was interesting.

 

During the WCW poll, I took quite a liking to Orndorff and watched a lot of his stuff from both his comeback and Pretty Wonderful. I wouldn't call him a great worker as the other day I watched a really boring Cowboy Bob Orton/Orndorff match that proved he should've been only working sub 10 minute brawls, but I liked these Hogan matches and the Piper matches a lot.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I was at the show in Philly with the cage match, and it was a fucking blast.

[ohtani's jacket]

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man

 

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, Toronto 11/6/88

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, Los Angeles 11/17/88

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, MSG 11/26/88

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, Boston 12/3/88

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, Los Angeles 12/17/88

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, Boston 1/13/89

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, MSG 1/23/89

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, Philadelphia 2/11/89

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, cage match, Boston 3/18/19

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, cage match, MSG 4/18/89

Hulk Hogan vs. The Big Boss Man, cage match, SNME 4/25/89

 

Fuck, that's a lot of Hulk Hogan vs. Big Boss Man matches. I think I watched all of them except maybe the first two Boston matches. Towards the end, I just had them playing in the background while I did other things since they were so damn repetitive. The first couple of times I thought they were solid matches, but the shitty finishes and the same, reoccuring matches really killed my enthusiasm for this match-up. The SNME cage match I think is overrated, but the superplex is still an amazing spot. It's too bad they do the double countout spot afterwards where Hogan sits up like the Undertaker at eight. It's interesting to note that they fuck up the superplex in the Boston match and don't even try it in MSG (or the other way around.) Anyway, this series drained my will to live.

[jdw]

My thoughts on the Hogan-Orndorff matches when going through them several years back:

 

08/28/86 Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (11:05)

Taped: CNE Stadium, Toronto

From: Hulk Hogan The Ultimate Anthology / The Big Event

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....0327⡗

 

09/13/86 Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (10:18)

Taped: Richfield Coliseum, OH

From: 10/04/86 SNME

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....3260㏌

 

10/18/86 Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (11:26)

Taped: The Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA

From: 10/18/86 PRISM Network

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....3471㒟

 

11/24/86 Hulk Hogan & Roddy Piper vs Paul Orndorff & Harley Race (8:16)

Taped: Madison Square Garden, New York

From: 11/24/86 MSG Network

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....3261㏍

 

12/13/86 Hulk Hogan vs Paul Orndorff (8:07)

Taped: The Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA

From: 12/13/86 PRISM Network

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....3472㒠

 

12/14/86 Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff (10:42)

Taped: Hartford Civic Center

Aired: 01/03/87 SNME

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....=4357ᄅ

 

Had not tracked down the first Philly match at the time, and the Houston match is a newer 24/7 release.

 

I love The Big Event match. Would highly recommend it as it better than anything else after the turn captures hot red hot this feud was. They don't quite have their shit down totally perfectly, but given it's a Hogan match, that's not a problem.

 

I like the first SNME match. Perfectly fine, and I don't have a problem with the finish involving Piper and Adonis. Hogan & Piper would be working some how shows together as a team and this was a good angle to get the team across: they'd come to hate the heels a bit more than each other. Pretty needed given their past history.

 

Second Philly match is smartly worked. Good match, and they have their shit down pat by that point.

 

The thing the Philly cage match has over the SNME cage match is a clean finish (i.e. blow off of the feud) and the double juice. That said... I think I liked the SNME match a bit more. The "tie finish" was one of those rare times it kind of work, and made for a decent back up in case Andre dropped dead and couldn't make Mania. If one is recommending stuff, it's always hard to recommend identical matches from a series, especially gimmick ones. From something like the DVDVR WWF-redux, I'd recommend one of the cage matches for the main set, and toss the other on the Extras: neither are long, they're both watchable, there's historic value given the place of the feud in the history of the 80s, and it's useful for folks to see House Show Version vs NBC Version. Probably would say the same thing about the SNME Hogan-Bossman and one of the house show cage matches.

 

John

[Bix]

It's a late '80s WWE house show feud. Most of the wrestlers (but especially Hogan) worked the same match in every market, then had a new match for the rematch that they took to each town, and so on. Of course it's repetitive if you're watching matches from multiple markets.

 

Remember, most people didn't see these matches on TV. The Toronto matches (as well as matches from other cities in Ontario, mainly London & Hamilton) were aired in Canada as part of the Canadian versions of the WWF TV shows (WWF Maple Leaf Wrestling, WWF Cavalcade, WWF Wrestling, etc.) to comply with Canadian Content mandates. The Philadelphia cards aired on PRISM, a local cable channel. MSG Network (NY), NESN (Boston), and Z Channel (Los Angeles) were available outside of their home markets to C-Band satellite dish owners, but there weren't many of them.

 

Only one version would air on Prime Time, and how much later that was varied. They likely dropped the Philadelphia, Boston, and Los Angeles broadcasts in '89 (and later MSG & the Ontario house shows in '92) to avoid exposing this. The only screw-up I can think of is when they included two Hogan-Race Texas death matches back to back on the same Coliseum Video release.

 

If you're watching every version of a WWE house show match that you can find, you're doing it wrong.

 

Also, they didn't do the superplex in Boston because the cage was a chainlink fence (which they still used on a bunch of house shows back then) and they didn't have the stability of the blue bars. Plus, with such a big bump for such big guys, I'd guess that they didn't do it on many house shows besides MSG (which I don't remember being botched, anyway).

[Matt D]

If you're watching every version of a WWE house show match that you can find, you're doing it wrong.

This is debatable to some extent, but in general, I think yeah, you should watch every ITERATION. If they come through 3 times, try to find one of each, at least. Though there's something to be learned from watching what they do one night apart.

[Bix]

If you're watching every version of a WWE house show match that you can find, you're doing it wrong.

This is debatable to some extent, but in general, I think yeah, you should watch every ITERATION. If they come through 3 times, try to find one of each, at least. Though there's something to be learned from watching what they do one night apart.

 

That's basically what I mean. Don't go into each version of match 2 of the feud expecting anything different each time. If you're curious how close each match is or whatever, go ahead, but if you're just trying to follow the feud, stick to one market if possible unless a match is missing or something like that.

[Matt D]

There are two Demolition vs Twin Towers matches available from the same leg of the feud and I found looking at both together really interesting.

 

But that's a whole different level of analysis.

[jdw]

If you're watching every version of a WWE house show match that you can find, you're doing it wrong.

Disagree with this if one is trying to make *recommendations*.

 

There are times where matches at the same "stage" of a feud are all generally the same, and duplicative. But there are reasons to watch them:

 

* one might be the best of the bunch

* differences in setting / filming / commentary / crowd heat / cycle within a building

 

The second one can come into play when the quality of the matches are pretty much the same, but one shooting of it just captures it better. An example might be the Tito-Savage No DQ matches. There might not be a big difference between the MSG one and the Toronto one. But the MSG one fits well into the arc they were telling in the building leading to the tag team cage blow off.

 

The second can be night & day some times. Look at the Savage-Steamboat feud around the tv angle:

 

Pre-Angle matches

11/01/86 Boston: Savage vs. Steamboat (14:18)

11/08/86 Spectrum: Steamboat vs Savage (12:52)

 

I'm leaving out the July match and the one from the prior year. These are the matches when the feud is really starting to shape up. If you're trying to tell the storyline of the feud "before" the angle, these would be the ones.

 

The Boston match is better. It's tighter, more focused. If one watches it and then the Angle Match, you get the sense of "why" Savage snapped: Steamer had his number, not just in the isolation of a shortish TV, but around the horn. On top of that, Randy's off the top move to the floor was getting him beat. So Randy just went batshit.

 

Angle Match

11/22/86 Superstars: Savage vs Steamboat (7:03) (taped 10/28/86)

 

Well of course that's a keeper. To a degree this has a similar start to the Boston match, with Steamer having Macho's number. Then he goes batshit.

 

Revenge Matches

01/10/87 Spectrum: Savage vs Steamboat (6:10)

02/14/87 Spectrum: Savage vs Steamboat (7:42)

02/15/87 MLG: Savage vs Steamboat (13:40)

 

It's worth watching all of these to figure out which might be the best or if there are multiple ones that fit together into telling the story of the feud.

 

The MLG match is great, one of those missing links that helps fill in Angle Match --> Mania with a great match and thematically helps get across Steamer "going back to what was working" at Mania rather than coming out wanting to kill Macho dead. Mania now makes sense... even if it's not exactly what they had in mind when laying it out.

 

The Spectrum matches are worth watching to see if they add anything, especially the first one, in filling the bridge from November to February. If they're not keepers, no skin off anyone's back to at least put the effort into watching them.

 

Pre-Mania Tag-o-Rama

02/23/87 MSG: Piper & Steamboat & JYD vs Savage & Adonis & Race (20:24)

 

This has a lot of stuff going on that leads into Mania: Piper-Adons, JYD-Race and Steamer-Savage. It's also got a really heated crowd. It's not a massive addition to the Steamer-Savage feud, but it is the *one* time in their feud that they played in MSG, and it's a fun little match. Even if one doesn't recommend it, it is worth watching because it's a different iteration.

 

Mania

03/29/87 Mania: Savage vs Steamboat (14:35)

 

Of course.

 

Post Mania Steamboat defense

05/15/87 Houston: Steamboat vs Savage (10:53)

 

Sadly we don't have one of the cage matches, though it's probable that those weren't as epic in the building as they seemed on paper. Though... I seem to recall the Long Island match looked like a bloodbath from Savage in the Apter mags, so that at least would have acted as a "finish" to the feud.

 

The Houston match... it's okay. It's hard for these two to have a dog of a match. But it doesn't really grab me. Again, it's worth watching simply to see if they did have something good/great when the roles were reversed, and if there was another MLG-like missing gem between the two that finally bubble up.

 

In a sense, it's a bit like the Sarge vs Sheik feud. If you're putting a bit of editing together (like in Will & Loss' Yearbook format), you're going to need to cut down the number of matches being kept. But to get there, you really do need to watch them to make a good set of recommendations.

 

In turn, that saves other people from having to sit through all of them if they don't want to. I don't mind people taking the time to watch the 11/08/86 Steamboat vs Savage match from the Spectrum. But if someone is coming to me asking for recommendations, I'd tell them it can be skipped unless they're interested in seeing that they don't always hit the ball for extra bases... but even then have a match with some good stuff in it.