KrisZ Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 RAW did another 3.2 BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 That's not a huge surprise, what with the presidential address the announcers spent the entire show taking potshots at Obama for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Bryan seems to be just parroting what Dave said on Wrestling Observer Radio, John. I know that... but Bryan is up on Tuesday while Dave is on Wed, so it's easier to grab Bryan's version of Bryan & Dave Speak rather than wait for Wed. Â Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I don't get the WO talking point that the Vince/HHH angle is the most important storyline to them. They aren't even doing a feud. HHH just did the deal where a babyface figurehead takes charge from a heel and makes a few crowd-pleasing announcements. Clearly the SummerSlam main event is going to be more important than HHH setting up matches on RAW and Smackdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Someone in the WWE is feeding Dave/Bryan the talking point that internally the Triple H Takes Charge is the biggest storyline they're working on. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Given how WWE books I think Cena will go over at Summerslam and the angle will be over. He just jobbed to Punk last month and has done a few other jobs lately. I want to be wrong but the way the company does business Cena has to win (in their minds). Just like last Summerslam. I just hope Punk can still stay hot somehow  also after this weekend's house show run in Illinois Punk is not scheduled for any house shows. Just RAW tapings. Maybe he negotiated the HBK sweetheart "don't have to work the road" deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Even if John Cena doesn't pin C.M. Punk clean at Summerslam, they'll just turn C.M. Punk back into a babyface and then he'll be tag teaming on RAW with John Cena against fuckin' Miz/Del Rio or some shit. Â I have no faith in WWE whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Re: Hunter. I've said it before but I can really see them thinking (and them could be Hunter and Steph) that this is setting WWE up for the next 5 years with the Mr. Hemsley gimmick and that in the face of that Punk is a blip in that roadmap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 It's backwards logic to us hardcores: we loved the promo. But perhaps with the fans what plays more is winning MITB and coming out of it as a Big Star that takes him off. Seeing how poorly last year's MITB drew (and how poorly the non-Rumble gimmick match shows draw in general), and that this year's MITB matches were much weaker on paper than last year's (was there anyone in the Smackdown MITB match who seemed like someone they'd seriously dedicate a World Title program to? I know their roster is dessicated after the draft, but still....), that seems deeply unlikely. Either Cena/Punk popped a buyrate, or nothing popped a buyrate. Â On the rest, I think we agree. Â Anyway, we may be Thinking Too Much about the WWE having a plan here. It really does sound like they're in typical booking mode of throwing shit at the wall. And on this, I think we very strongly agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 WWE's Capitol Punishment PPV garnered 200,000 buys, according to business figures released for the month of June 2011 on WWE's corporate website. That preliminary figure is up from 143,000 buys for the June 2010 Fatal Four Way PPV, the concept of which was dropped as a PPV event. Credit: PWInsider  The figure to beat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 It's backwards logic to us hardcores: we loved the promo. But perhaps with the fans what plays more is winning MITB and coming out of it as a Big Star that takes him off. Seeing how poorly last year's MITB drew (and how poorly the non-Rumble gimmick match shows draw in general), and that this year's MITB matches were much weaker on paper than last year's (was there anyone in the Smackdown MITB match who seemed like someone they'd seriously dedicate a World Title program to? I know their roster is dessicated after the draft, but still....), that seems deeply unlikely. Either Cena/Punk popped a buyrate, or nothing popped a buyrate.  I use MITB only in the sense of it being the name of the PPV where Punk pinned Cena / Screwed Over Mr. McMahon after the build up leading into it.  That perhaps for fans in terms of getting over:  Punk over Cena/McMahon > Greatest Promo Ever  The GPE was simply the latest in a long line of heels shooting their mouths off. Other than hardcores, did it have meaning?  Going and taking out Cena and screwing over Mr. McMahon who promised you wouldn't leave town with the belt... perhaps that means more to fans.  Not saying it's the case. The both probably mean nothing if Punk quickly drops the title back to Cena. But if he doesn't, and the push is sustained in a major way, it may be that the back-to-back wins over Cena are what really cemented him with regular fans, not the GPE.  Those are big ifs, since we both agree that the WWE is in Throwing Shit At The Wall mode.  John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 That number for Capitol Punishment is quite interesting. Meltz thought it was going to bomb hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 That number for Capitol Punishment is quite interesting. Meltz thought it was going to bomb hard. I did too in a funny isnt money way given how they didnt establish R-Truth as a credible threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 If that number holds up, it definitely needs to be taken into consideration when the MITB buyrate comes. It can be up 25% or whatever, but if it's below CP with pretty much the same crew on both shows, then the Punk experiment wasn't an initial success. Summerslam is the ultimate test of course, since the SD side is doing the hundredth Orton/Christian match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I'm with jdw. The ultimate test is Punk in the long term. The PPV buys for MITB and Summerslam are important now, but they shouldn't be treated as make-or-break by anyone. To create a legitimate star at this stage is going to take a long-term outlook and promotional backing that doesn't go up and down with week-to-week television ratings. 6-12 months from now is the true test. If WWE can't stick with this push that long regardless of the success or failure of these two PPVs, then this is doomed to fail. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 For the time poor among us: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=6808291  It's on iTunes as well.  Table of Contents  1. Punk talks about the switch to Cult of Personality (1:21) 2. How long were you planning on staying off TV/why did you come back so soon? (4:35) 3. How hard is it to straddle the line between heel/face and what is your opinion on the state of the WWE? (6:02) 4. Do you have heat backstage now for your promos?(7:10) 5. Walk me through your shoot. How worked was it? (8:41) 6. Did you have any doubt in the last few months that you'd come back to the WWE? (11:24) 7. Talking about casual fan interest (13:13) 8. Walk me through MitB (14:08) 9. Cena's reaction to the crowd: what were you guys expecting?(16:34) 10. What did the legends have to say? (18:21) 11. Why didn't you get a good push earlier in your career? (19:51) 12. What does Vince think of all of this? (22:02) 13. Can we blame the brand split for a lot of our problems/why isn't the WWE drawing? (23:30) 14. Opinion on modern crowds/why aren't they as loud anymore? (24:16) 15. Who are your biggest influences? (25:10) 16. When did you develop your mic skills? (26:30) 17. What do you think about the trend towards bigger and bigger bumps? (28:21) 18. Comicon/ad libbing things is better than scripted stuff (30:00) 19. What's next/a shoot on crappy gimmicks people who say he's the next Austin/welcome to the Reality Era (31:56) 20. Who's your favorite character other than yourself in the business today? (33:49) 21. Talking about Jericho, the value of taking a break, and how beat up CM Punk is (35:16) 22. Role of the IWC in the WWE today (37:00) 23. Shooting on impatient fans (37:59) 24. Talking about the John Cena character/the role of a heel in PG Era (39:00) 25. Making wrestling cool again/closing words (40:45) Cult of Personality is his full time theme now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Simmons is a rather major podcast. I suspect Hoback will love this. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Do we have enough proof that CM Punk is now a big draw for WWE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 And the cat is out of the bag.  He and Cena faced off in the ring with each holding their version of the belt high. Whether this was the best direction for the angle is debatable. One aspect of the angle, the idea Punk was on the outside, holding the belt hostage, and complaining about and leaving the company is done, remarkably fast. Instead, Punk was used to get over HHH as being able to make the deals and bring back who the fans want. While much of this angle’s genesis came from Punk to Vince McMahon, in the end, the angle was going to be shaped for the purposes of getting the family over primarily, and Punk secondarily. In the end, Punk is a bigger star for it. His elevation wasn’t shut down as it would have been in the original booking concept, where he was to return at the end of the show, get beaten up by HHH, left laying with a pedigree and Alberto Del Rio would come down, cash in his briefcase, beat him to win the title, and Del Rio would go to SummerSlam and defend against Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I don't believe for two seconds that was ever the original plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 More to it  The loser of the week ended up Del Rio, who is not only out the championship for at least the fourth time it was planned for him, but also seems in limbo at SummerSlam instead of being the champion defending in the main event.  The company originally felt they wanted Del Rio as champion for a show in the Los Angeles market, to try and draw from the Latin community, and in particular had a long-term plan of Del Rio as champion when they return to Mexico in October with the idea it’s the first time a Mexican would hold a WWE title while they were in Mexico, and when TV is being taped for the first time ever in Mexico. It was seen as a chance to really broaden the fan base in what is currently the company’s strongest market. The attack by HHH was designed by make him a strong heel for a match with Punk, and thus, by extension give Punk a strong heel to work with to help him get over as a face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawmic Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 So if the plan was for Del Rio to cash in on Punk at the end of the show...where does the title tournament fit into it? Seems like another one of those getting bad information or pulling shit out of there ass items that's been going on for a long time with Dave & Bryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I was thinking the same thing. It makes no sense unless Del Rio replaces Punk as the lineal champion to Cena or Rey's interim champion for Summerslam, but even then, why cash in on Punk instead of the other champion? It sounds like the idea was floated between Raws, which means after the tournament started. I can't see how that could've been a legitimately planned angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I still think they were blindsided by just what sort of reaction Punk got and initially he was never meant to leave Chicago with the belt. Though the booking of a #1 Contender's match which ADR won before Punk even did his thing makes me wonder if he was going to give his rant in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 The company originally felt they wanted Del Rio as champion for a show in the Los Angeles market, to try and draw from the Latin community Do we really think they needed to put the title on a Mexican to draw a sellout to their second biggest PPV show of the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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