cm funk Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Not neccisarly a move but when did wrestling stop having "over the top rope a automatic DQ"? I seem to remember WCW did it into the mid 90s.Did WCW do it consistently until the NWO era, or was there a period in the early 90s when they stopped? I seem to remember that Bill Watts brought that rule back out of retirement when he took over, but I'm not sure. They mentionned getting rid of the rule sometime in 1998. I don't think it was officialy done before. WCW was such a clusterfuck, they'd pick and choose when to honor that rule. Guys would forget and throw their opponent over the top right in front of the ref, and the announcers would cover it up with "referees discretion" but then when they wanted a cheap way to get out of a title match they'd book it as the finish. Was it Arn Anderson who accidentally exited the ring over the top rope and got DQ'd like a minute into a match because the ref decided that day they were following the rule? I think they "unofficially" stopped using it completely long before 98 It's kind of like that "title changes hands on a DQ" rule in TNA which is never enforced, until they drag it out of mothballs when they want a cheap finish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Was it Arn Anderson who accidentally exited the ring over the top rope and got DQ'd like a minute into a match because the ref decided that day they were following the rule? I think you're thinking of Dean Malenko. He fought Billy Kidman in a "catch-as-catch-can match" at Souled Out 2000. One of the ways you could win was by making your opponent's feet touch the floor, so Malenko lost when he instinctively rolled out of the ring to take a breather about two minutes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Considering that Malenko had probably already decided that he was walking out on the company that night, I always wondered if he did that on purpose. He certainly was never a guy who was known for blowing spots or making dumbass mistakes like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
med2089 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 The normal bodyslam baffles me, though. I'm not sure why that would be such a babyface move.The standard bodyslam is often kind of a humdrum-looking move. Not much motion, not much impact. Unless you're doing it on a guy bigger than you or unless the guy taking the move can really sell his ass off, it comes off as boring sometimes. Heels historically often tended to be big monsters or annoying little assholes who specialized in pinball bumping and theatrical overselling, so they tend to make the move look more impressive when they take it. But nowadays it's seen as such an obsolete piece of old-school offense that some audiences will shit on the scoopslam. I still remember a Mike Knox vs Little Guido match, where Mike did five bodyslams in a row and you could hear the crowd becoming audibly less and less impressed with Knox each time he repeated the same basic move.Wasn't Ezekiel Jackson doing the same thing recently? It's been a while since I've seen him do it, so I can't really remember what reaction he was getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think at Survivor Series either Zeke or Mason Ryan(I forget which. they are interchangeable to me), had some segment where they did 3-4 slams (or press slams) in a row, and it was just starting to move the crowd, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yeah, when Zeke did it the crowd seemed to enjoy it. It was almost like a 911 type of angle, where Zeke kept hitting his move more and more times in a row. Kinda like how Benoit used to do the German suplexes, except with much less spinal compression and encephalitic trauma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 WCW was such a clusterfuck, they'd pick and choose when to honor that rule. Guys would forget and throw their opponent over the top right in front of the ref, and the announcers would cover it up with "referees discretion" but then when they wanted a cheap way to get out of a title match they'd book it as the finish. I actually just witnessed a great exemple of that. Clash 14, in 91. Early in the card, Sting basically jumps above Butch Reed, who barely does a back body drop to avoid Sting, who goes flying over the tope rope to the floor. DQ. Really, Reed barely did anything but try to not get hit. In the main event, Flair is leaning on the ropes, Scott Steiner charges full speed and hits him with a clothesline which throws Flair over the tope rope to the floor, as expected. Ross shouts "Judgement call !!" Eh eh eh. What a bunch of bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ross explaining that it's the referee's discretion to determine whether or not something that sent someone over the stop was a DQ after someone used a strike to send someone over was a standard talking point of his to get over the over the top rope DQ rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just about every promotion plays fast and loose with the rules when it suits them. A while back on Raw, Dolph Ziggler and Kofi Kingston had a 2/3 falls match for the US title. Kofi won 2-1, but the third fall was a DQ, so Dolph retained. But HHH won the title in his 2000 Iron Man match with The Rock despite the last fall being a DQ. I watched a Lawler/Hennig AWA match recently, and the commentators made note of Madusa being a "licensed" manager. Was the idea of needing credentials to be at ringside a prominent part of old-school wrestling or was that just an AWA thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I assume you're not talking about 1996 when you ask about old school wrestling, but at Beware of Dog they made a big deal out Clarence Mason's procuring a one-night manager's license for Owen Hart. But that's just one instance, so it's not really a useful answer. I can't remember hearing about manager's licenses any more than one or two other times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 They mentioned it a lot in the 80's. Heenan would rail on Elizabeth in commentary wondering how she got a manager's license. There was also the SNME where Andre got to be in Bundy's corner against Hogan because he was "licensed" for the evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Pretty much any time a heel was accompanied by a tag partner or some other non manager person, Gorilla would debate if that person had secured managerial credentials or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Back in the day state athletic commissions actually required managers to be licensed, so that gimmick was based in reality. I'm not sure what getting a managers license entailed, probably just a formality in most cases, but it was a real thing. Been reading the '94 Observers, and when talking about Tonya Harding working a Jesse Barr promoted show in Washington St. it was noted that she had to sit in a chair by the entrance and couldn't go to ringside because the commission wouldn't license her as a manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I remember them talking about manager's licenses lots of times. Gorilla was big on them and Jesse was big on them. Typically, Jesse would complain if a face came out to even the odds, and Monsoon the other way around. Seem to recall that Dino Bravo got this a few times during Earthquake's 1990 run. The license would also be brought up when the ref would send guys back to the locker room. This often happened if a tagteam wrestler had a singles match and the partner came out too. Don't recall them ever talking about them in Crockett / WCW. Was always a WWF thing I thought, partly because the WWF put over managers pretty big in the 80s: Heenan, Hart, Fuji, Slick -- they were all important heel figures and treated as such, almost like Batman villains. Also, cm funk is right about them being real. I remember JJ Dillon talking about that on a shoot. I often wonder if officals in the 80s actually understood that wrestling is worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
med2089 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The last I remember the use of the manager's license was around 2000, when Mike Sanders had one to be at ringside with the Natural Born Thrillers on some random WCW PPV. He had a card with the WCW logo on it that just said "manager's license." It was laminated and everything. I wish I could find a screencap of it, because it was ridiculous, even for WCW. The best part is that he didn't even manage whoever he was out with - he just did commentary for the entire match. Some manager! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The last I remember the use of the manager's license was around 2000, when Mike Sanders had one to be at ringside with the Natural Born Thrillers on some random WCW PPV. He had a card with the WCW logo on it that just said "manager's license." It was laminated and everything. I wish I could find a screencap of it, because it was ridiculous, even for WCW. The best part is that he didn't even manage whoever he was out with - he just did commentary for the entire match. Some manager! Well he was only above average. What did you expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I remember a WCW TV match from '93-'95ish where Dustin Rhodes accompanies another wrestler to the ring, Ventura/Heenan throws a fit about him not having a manager's license, and Tony Schiavone brushes it off with "There's no such thing as a managers' license!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Also, cm funk is right about them being real. I remember JJ Dillon talking about that on a shoot. I often wonder if officals in the 80s actually understood that wrestling is worked.More likely, athletic commissions probably saw it as a way to make a quick buck on licensing fees for something that was a mere formality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Also, cm funk is right about them being real. I remember JJ Dillon talking about that on a shoot. I often wonder if officals in the 80s actually understood that wrestling is worked. Cox mentioned it above. It was about making some extra money by keeping regulations like that up. State athletic commissions will still get involved with wrestling. I think one state commission was trying to make it illegal to blade a couple of years ago, I don't recall the state though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
med2089 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 It's definitely illegal to blade in Pennsylvania. Frank Talent would also STRONGLY frown upon spitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I can't remember the last time I saw a heel miscommunication spot in a tag match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 You mean something like the old "one heel holds a babyface for the other heel to punch, but the babyface ducks and Heel #2 whacks Heel #1"? That kind of thing happens in WWE tag matches all the time, especially with the divas for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Wrestler's are seemingly never threatened with fines anymore. I'd always hear Gorilla Monsoon say Wrestler A will be fined for attacking a referee and now it's just fuckhead announcers like Josh Mathews and Michael Cole spewing bullshit about how they "like this new aggressive side of __" and how "___ needs a mean-streak." It's ok for Coel I guess because he's a heel, but Booker T says that crap a lot too and he's supposed to be a babyface. I don't even know what Mathews is. Except a fuckhead. How many times is a WWE match NOT started with a collar-and-elbow tie-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can't recall a recent example. Most of the time, I find they do the thing where the FIP hits a single big move, which leads to a simultaneous hot tag, which is the bane of my existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Wrestling X Posted March 17, 2012 Report Share Posted March 17, 2012 I haven't seen the bridge up into a backslide spot for a while and I can't remember the last time a tag team in WWE did a double-team signature move to finish off an opponent, the matches always seem to end with one from each team brawling outside the ring whilst the two in the ring go for a straight finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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