Top Five Opponents Of....

[KB8]

How would Lawler rate as a Savage opponent with people here?

Tentatively, I'd say top 5.

 

Behind Steamboat and Tito...and I'm not sure I'd have anybody else ahead of him. I love the Flair match from Wrestlemania 8, but I don't think Flair was ever as good an opponent for him as Jerry (although Flair is probably top 5 as well). Warrior and Hogan are both good shouts, and I like the Warrior match from Wrestlemania 7 more than any Savage match ever bar the Steamboat match from Wrestlemania 3 (and maybe the 4/86 MSG match opposite Santana), but I don't know, I think I'd still take Jerry over Warrior as an overall opponent.

 

And I wasn't even a big fan of the LLT match against Lawler that finished high on the Memphis poll. I imagine I'll like it more whenever I get around to re-watching it, so that'll probably solidify his spot in the top 5. Somewhere between #3-#5.

[JerryvonKramer]

jdw - what about Ted in 88?

I've only written up the MSG cage match, and I really didn't like it at all. I talked about it in Match #18 of the WWF Thread on tOA.

Is that the one where the fan jumps on the cage?

 

It's been about 5-6 years, but I remember the one from Wrestlefest (07/30/88) being the best of the series. The SNME match from before WM4 (03/07/88) is also better than the Mania match.

 

I can't remember 4/25/88 or 5/27/88 - both MSG - at all. Steel cage match was 6/25/88. Did the WWF do monthly shows at MSG in 88?

 

From what I can remember though the Wrestlefest and pre-Mania SNME match were the best. Vaguely recall a shitty little match Savage had with Virgil during this feud as well.

 

 

 

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SIDE NOTE:

Incidentally, I remember going through hell trying to source that Macho Madness tapein PAL format here in the UK. Of all the tapes I bought, that one was by far the hardest to get hold of. It wasn't even an original copy I bought in the end for something like £15. If anyone who knows how can PM me info about getting some of my old Coliseum tapes transferred to computer or onto DVD I wouldn't mind doing it.

 

I imagine MOST of the stuff on my tapes is freely available online, but some of the more obscure ones like this Macho Madness tape may have a couple of gems on them. Have things like WF011 The Amazing Managers or WF060 Best of the WWF #17 or WF063 Brains Behind the Brawn turned up? These were the other really hard ones to get hold of about 8 years ago when I spent over £2k (MADNESS) amassing my collection. I imagine all the Wrestlefests and Supertapes and stuff like that are abundently available. The tapes from 90-94 were always much more easily available than the old lines, but I understand this is because of when wrestling boomed here in the the UK, plus VHS becoming easier to buy / cheaper as a medium.

[Victator]

I watched the Dibiase/Savage series this morning. I thought the MSG match was really damn good. They really got across that they hated each other. Ted hates Savage because Savage fouled up his master plan and took the belt he was entitled too. Savage because Dibiase took things too far.

 

Really liked the cage match too. They built it up so well and by the end of it I can't blame the kid for jumping that prick Virgil.

 

Also watching a series of tag with Dibiase vs Hogan and Bigelow that really impressed me. He put in a bunch of really strong performances as a true main eventer.

[khawk20]

EDIT: Wasn't there another Savage/Tito match from Toronto that popped up on dailymotion not long ago that is supposedly really good? Or is that another Savage/Steamboat match? Which in fairness would also be really interesting.

I believe it was Savage-Tito no DQ from Toronto, and it aired on Classics on Demand. Bix wrote up a short blurb here when it came out, IIRC.

[jdw]

I think he did as well. Along the lines of another very good match between the two, but not really replacing the MSG version of the No DQ if you're doing a feud arc.

 

John

[Frankensteiner]

Actually, the Toronto No DQ match is probably better than MSG. I think OJ watched both as well, and liked the Toronto one better.

[jdw]

Bix and Daniel from the WWF Thread:

 

John, I can't remember if I've seen the MSG match you're talking about, but the Toronto match OJ reviewed is a wild bloody brawl that goes all over ringside, onto the ramp, and behind the ramp. It first surfaced last year on Classics On Demand. Easily the best non-Slaughter WWF brawl of the '80s.

Randy Savage vs. Tito Santana (No DQ), 5/4/86

Is this better or roughly the same as their 04/22/86 MSG version of the match?

It's essentially the same match, with the same beginning and end, but the Maple Leaf Gardens set-up means they can throw each over the barricade and use the ramp area to brawl, which makes the build to the bladejob a lot better than at Madison Square Garden. Savage's missed double axhandle happens later in the match and is arguably a bigger spot in Toronto. The first half of the match is probably better in New York, but the second half of Toronto fits the bill better and feels like more of a No DQ bout. There's also a difference in the way the matches are shot. The finishing stretch, for example, is shot from the front in New York and from the side in Toronto. When they use a front on shot in Toronto (and I'm assuming it's because of the ramp), it's from a far wider angle than in MSG, similar to the type of shot you see in handhelds. The upshot of all this is that the punch exchange, for example, is more interesting, if not better, in Toronto than it is in New York because of the different angle.

 

The crowd seemed hotter in Canada as well.

Re-reading that make me think it's time to fire up me WWF 80s watching. Happen to see where that's available...

 

John

[KB8]

Yeah, I'll definitely have to check that out. Although I no doubt said the same when I first heard about it and, well, here we are...

[goodhelmet]

How would Lawler rate as a Savage opponent with people here?

I was reading through the thread and Lawler was the first namee I saw missing from the Savage list. In fact, he would be my #1 Savage opponent even though Savage is not my #1 Lawler opponent.

[Kostka]

For Savage I'd go

 

1. Steamboat

2. Lawler

3. Santana

4. Andre

5. DDP

 

Did any of the Savage/Mantell matches make tape? I recall Dutch talking about having like 1 1/2 - 2 hour matches with him in Memphis. That sounds like an excellent pair in my head.