Mania as it happens.

[Loss]

If they do the one-year build for a match yet again, I think they're trapping themselves. I like the idea of them deciding internally what it should be, but why do they have to announce it? What if someone like Dolph Ziggler (just throwing out a random name) catches fire mid-year? I can definitely understand the frustration of the regulars when guys like Rock, Undertaker, Lesnar, etc. who don't work all year take all the top spots on these shows. Maybe it wouldn't draw as well to build around guys who are there every week, but that's a reflection of WWE not building up anyone more than it is a reflection that the current crop of guys is incapable of being successful.

[Loss]

Dave defending Bryan/Sheamus going short because it's not a match people paid to see. It's amazing how different he is than he used to be.

[Tim Cooke]

Show was fine - it was the match order that was the issue.

 

If you didn't think HHH/Taker were going to get 55 minutes for their segment, then you don't have a good grasp on this promotion. If Punk/Jericho opens the show, I think it is almost a guarantee that they get more heat for more than the finish.

 

HHH/Taker was plodding to start and then the bad acting from Shawn was funny. I agree with whoever said they didn't buy the near falls this year. I did like the hells gate on the steps with the HHH powerbomb escape. But they needed those steps or else there was no way Taker was being lifted up.

 

I liked Rock/Cena and don't really get the hate. It wasn't ***** (though nothing this weekend was on any show) but it was a good WrestleMania main event.

 

Punk/Jericho is the match that got shafted by the HHH/Taker sucking up all the heat. The finishing sequence of reversals, something that can be very annoying, was very well executed, especially from two guys whose execution can be suspect.

 

The Danielson match worked for the storyline and his character. It may have pissed people off but it was the best heel in the company getting fucked with because of his actions over the past two months. Kayfabe wise, it worked. Now how they follow this up is still to be seen and they could easily not rebuild him well but we won't know that until it happens.

[Matt D]

The real issue with Danielson is that the act was hot and it was working and it was a shame Mania showed up when it did since it had the legs to go another few months as it was.

 

The last thing I care about with Punk/Jericho is the crowd, given the circumstances. A hot crowd would have helped, but it was a smart, well structured, well executed match. My biggest problem with it was that Punk didn't specifically sell the back more, though he was definitely selling plenty in general. The only other thing that bugged me was Punk going for the top rope rana, which I don't remember having seen him do in years, but it's Mania so there's the "pulling out all stops" counter.

[El-P]

Ok, my yearly dose of WWE. This is the first time I actually the event in full in years, only FFind during the women match and the eye and hear gouging musical parts.

Seamus vs Bryan. Ok. WWE still sucks.

Orton vs Kane was decent for what it was, but still pretty much a nothing match. Orton is the worst DDP ever, and Kane is still Kane. Dull.

Big Show vs Cody Rhodes I enjoyed a bit more far Show kicking Cody's ass, but really, Cody worksa bit on Show's leg, Show gets up, sells nothing, wins it. Ok. Whatever.

HHH / Taker was laughable. It worked for the live crowd, but as a wrestling match, it was the drizzling shit. Punch, kick, terribly stiff chair shots, god-awful "emotionnal acting" (I guess that's Shawn's gimmick since the hilarious "I'm sorry Ric" line), bad soap opera and kicking out of finishers. I actually enjoyed it as I would enjoy a really bad movie. No near falls worked because it was all very predictable. Just stupid on every level, including the sledgehammer shots which should kill a man. Taker's intro was the best part, but nowhere near as great as the awesome Johnny Cash intro he got last year. I guess the über stiff chair shots were a way to make up for the lack of bladejob, although HHH did juiced a bit. Anyway, that was stupid, but at least we won't hear about how it was a ***** classic at least.

Team Johnny vs Team Teddy was junk until the final segment with the dives and comedy. I'm not following the product, but as soon as that girl came in the ring, I knew she was screwing Ryder. I was "swerved" by the fact that only turned heel after teh match, but still, saw the finish come from a hundred miles.

Chris Jericho vs CM Punk. As CM Punk used Living Colour for a long time now ? Anyway, that's another reason why he doesn't look like all the other WWE clones, he's got an actual good music theme instead of generic modern bullshit. Enjoyed this a lot, thought it was really good. A bit sloppuy at times, but that's Jericho for you, who hasn't changed on that matter. Really good stuff, but like it's been said, not much heat because the crowd was drained after Taker vs HHH. Well, Triple H did it again. But this was the WWE match I enjoyed the most in ages.

Rock vs Cena : enjoyed it as well until the sharpshooter sequences which killed quite a bit of momentum I thought. The following STF sequence didn't help, as the match really didn't need two horribly applied submission holds back to back. I thought it was 5 minutes two long and too much kicking out of finishers, which made it predictable. The last near fall really worked though, as Cena picking up Rock after the crossbody and giving him his finisher looked like it could really be the finish. I thought Rock winning was nice, hell, it's WM in Miami, and The Rock is the only reason why they'll make a good number. I did feel like the match could have been so much more if they had more balls and had Cena work heelish. He would have been fantastic in this role I think, and the heat would have been nuclear. Dull-ass modern WWE, no risk taken, ever. Outside of that, good match and spectacle, exactly what I was expecting from Rock and Cena at WM.

Anyway, this is not gonna get me back at watching WWE anytime soon, but I enjoyed the last too match quite a bit, I enjoyed watching the Rock, and I had a good laugh during Taker vs HHH, although I'm sure it was not the reaction intended. Undercard was just nondescript and dull, as always.

[Chess Knight]

Punk's been using "Cult of Personality" since he returned from his "I'm gone possibly defending the title elsewhere" period in July/August.

[Loss]

I see people criticizing Punk/Jericho for being dull early on, but the crowd was out of it early on. Not really the wrestlers. They were also trying to strike a balance between the self-indulgent garbage of HHH/Undertaker/Michaels (Jericho's talking spots) and actual wrestling, which I appreciated. I thought it was an excellent match.

 

Which reminds me that they had the ringside area mic'd really well for HIAC and Punk/Jericho. So well in fact, that we were picking up Rock and Cena conversations at times.

 

People are on Dylan about Kane/Orton surpassing his expectations, but it surpassed mine too. It wasn't a good match, but Randy Orton looked excellent in timing his spots. I really wish they'd just turn him heel already. He's much better in that role, and there aren't enough heels at the top level right now.

 

And I just don't buy the quick finish of Bryan/Sheamus as storyline comeuppance. I think it was just some trivia nerd in production wanting to set a unique stat for this show, and doing so however necessary, this match be damned. Had the announcer made a parallel in calling the match between the way Bryan won the title and lost the title, I would have taken it as intentional. As it stands, it felt happenstance, and this was the wrong show to do it.

 

HHH/Taker is getting a lot of love, but I really didn't like the match very much at all. Just a bunch of chairshots and bad facial expressions from Shawn. 50+ minutes of bookingbookingbooking and self indulgence.

 

I wanted to be positive about this show. It's the first WWE PPV I've watched in full in about four years because the lineup intrigued me. Some of the matches delivered on their own, but some of the match results negated that. HHH, Undertaker and Shawn was booked to show a previous era as better than the current one, as was the finish of Rock/Cena. Even though I enjoyed that era more, it was more because of the philosophy and the way people were pushed strongly than it was because of who the people involved were. Until that changes, it's really hard to get into WWE.

 

I just think about something like Undertaker shaving his head, and how that could have kickstarted a money-drawing career for someone who needed a shot in the arm if done as an angle on Raw. Here, it seemed like a waste.

[El-P]

Oh..and Rock calling the DDT spot on camera was the most amusing thing of the night

Nothing was funnier than Shawn's "dramatic" acting.

[El-P]

I see people criticizing Punk/Jericho for being dull early on, but the crowd was out of it early on. Not really the wrestlers. They were also trying to strike a balance between the self-indulgent garbage of HHH/Undertaker/Michaels (Jericho's talking spots) and actual wrestling, which I appreciated. I thought it was an excellent match.

Agreed. When Jericho went into "Your father, your sister" early on, I was like "oh, no, they're ruining this match", but he really didn't do anymore of this and went straight into wrestling. Didn't feel like a self-conscious epic either, just a hard-thought title match. The lack of kicking out of finisher left and right surely helped.

[El-P]

Punk's been using "Cult of Personality" since he returned from his "I'm gone possibly defending the title elsewhere" period in July/August.

Oh, thanks. I watched Cena vs Punk from SummerSlam last year but I didn't realized then for whatever reason.

[El-P]

HHH/Taker is getting a lot of love, but I really didn't like the match very much at all. Just a bunch of chairshots and bad facial expressions from Shawn. 50+ minutes of bookingbookingbooking and self indulgence.

It was complete shit. I watched a Terry Funk vs Abby match from MLW that made more sense that this crap. It was hilarious as soon as the soap opera kicked in though. And the constant references to the cage as being "demonic" when really, it had zero effect on the match at all.

[med2089]

I liked the show, but there was a lot of little stuff that bothered me. For example, if Michaels is crooked enough as a ref to kick one of the wrestlers, why isn't he crooked enough to just count three regardless of whether said wrestler kicks out or not to complete the screwjob? If you're going to fuck someone over, go all the way with it.

 

Likewise, I think it's pretty shitty that there were 12 guys in the GM match, but the entire thing seemed designed to ultimately get Eve over.

[Matt D]

I see people criticizing Punk/Jericho for being dull early on, but the crowd was out of it early on. Not really the wrestlers. They were also trying to strike a balance between the self-indulgent garbage of HHH/Undertaker/Michaels (Jericho's talking spots) and actual wrestling, which I appreciated. I thought it was an excellent match.

Agreed. When Jericho went into "Your father, your sister" early on, I was like "oh, no, they're ruining this match", but he really didn't do anymore of this and went straight into wrestling. Didn't feel like a self-conscious epic either, just a hard-thought title match. The lack of kicking out of finisher left and right surely helped.

 

It fit PERFECTLY with the build, playing on Orton/Christian from last year, giving a call back to Johnny Ace/Punk feud and a look forward to what's coming, and it made total sense within the confines of the match. Jericho spent a month doing the Flair-With-Liz mind game thing on Punk just to get him off his game. Then at the last moment he gets a gift from Ace (or maybe it was their secret plan all along; who knows?). and it kept punk way off his game and helped allowed Jericho to get the first transition, at which point he decided he has a better chance of winning the match by working over Punk's back than keep trying to get the DQ. BUT in the process he absorbed a ton of damage which might have had a cumulative effect later in the match.

 

The early match stuff was great.

[ohtani's jacket]

If they do the one-year build for a match yet again, I think they're trapping themselves. I like the idea of them deciding internally what it should be, but why do they have to announce it? What if someone like Dolph Ziggler (just throwing out a random name) catches fire mid-year? I can definitely understand the frustration of the regulars when guys like Rock, Undertaker, Lesnar, etc. who don't work all year take all the top spots on these shows. Maybe it wouldn't draw as well to build around guys who are there every week, but that's a reflection of WWE not building up anyone more than it is a reflection that the current crop of guys is incapable of being successful.

Isn't the basic problem that the only match-ups they can save for Wrestlemania and not run on TV or their 11 other PPVs are ones involving returning superstars?

[El-P]

It fit PERFECTLY with the build, playing on Orton/Christian from last year, giving a call back to Johnny Ace/Punk feud and a look forward to what's coming, and it made total sense within the confines of the match. Jericho spent a month doing the Flair-With-Liz mind game thing on Punk just to get him off his game. Then at the last moment he gets a gift from Ace (or maybe it was their secret plan all along; who knows?). and it kept punk way off his game and helped allowed Jericho to get the first transition, at which point he decided he has a better chance of winning the match by working over Punk's back than keep trying to get the DQ. BUT in the process he absorbed a ton of damage which might have had a cumulative effect later in the match.

I know it fit, but I was fearing the match would go into complete soap opera territory after the Taker/HHH debacle. As it was in the context of the match, and since it didn't go into soap opera territory (I mean, with "WWE movie dialogues"), yeah, it was ok.

[Loss]

I think they can keep anyone apart they want. The idea that they are handicapped by too much TV feels like an excuse. If they decided now that they wanted CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan to be on the next Wrestlemania, they could just keep them from having matches against each other for the next year.

[Slasher]

Did think it was odd and somewhat funny that while Jericho and Punk are selling on the outside, the camera pans in to Jericho smiling at Punk, "How's your sister?"

[El-P]

Isn't the basic problem that the only match-ups they can save for Wrestlemania and not run on TV or their 11 other PPVs are ones involving returning superstars?

The issue is that WM is mostly a nostalgia show now. Has been for years. Save for Punk vs Jericho, the entire WM card was built around Taker, Michaels, HHH and Rock. The rest was an afterthought.

[Matt D]

WCW did a year long build for Sting vs Hogan. Granted, part of that was using Sting in ways that weren't necessarily in ring, but it's doable.

 

Hell, there was a good 5 month build for Austin vs Rock at XV.

 

What was really telling for me was that in the initial graphics, Punk vs Jerciho wasn't involved at all. It was just HITC and Cena/Rock.

[ohtani's jacket]

Isn't the basic problem that the only match-ups they can save for Wrestlemania and not run on TV or their 11 other PPVs are ones involving returning superstars?

The issue is that WM is mostly a nostalgia show now. Has been for years. Save for Punk vs Jericho, the entire WM card was built around Taker, Michaels, HHH and Rock. The rest was an afterthought.

 

Since when did Wrestlemania undercards not suck?

[Eduardo]

I really thought the early part of Jericho and Punk match was sooo hammy and corny. Having the camera and mic perfectly pick up Jericho's awful lines and having Punk react to them just felt really cheesy and forced. It made both look like terrible actors, although they were probably forced to by management (or maybe it was some poorly executed idea from Jericho since I can't see Punk coming up with this). The match picked up right after the suplex to the outside and I liked the match quite a bit from that point on.

 

I thought Orton-Christian did the "chicken shit heel tries to get DQ'ed to win the title" bit a whole lot better since it just involved simple basic mamon shit.

 

Match I enjoyed the most was Rock vs Cena, it's probably the match I'll come away watching the most from this 'Mania. Really good match, although I wish Cena would have gone over.

[ohtani's jacket]

I think they can keep anyone apart they want. The idea that they are handicapped by too much TV feels like an excuse. If they decided now that they wanted CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan to be on the next Wrestlemania, they could just keep them from having matches against each other for the next year.

I guess they have no confidence in them drawing. After all, isn't there a tremendous amount of casual fans that make up the Wrestlemania buyrate? It does pose the question of what they're going to do when their previous stars are too old to keep coming back.

[Loss]

Yes, it does. Vince's logic in this show was supposedly that people would buy the show for the older stars, but see something that impressed them on the show with the younger guys, and then that would motivate them to follow WWE again. So Bryan/Sheamus getting 18 seconds seems to work against that goal.

 

So let's say they ran an angle where Sheamus shaved the Undertaker bald and challenged his streak? Even if he lost the match at Mania, if he got in the right amount of offense and the match was worked the right way, it wouldn't matter. The last boom was created by sacrificing a lot of the sacred cows and getting ballsy, which I don't see happening now at all.

[FLIK]

I liked the show, but there was a lot of little stuff that bothered me. For example, if Michaels is crooked enough as a ref to kick one of the wrestlers, why isn't he crooked enough to just count three regardless of whether said wrestler kicks out

That's a silly nitpick.

The Heel ref act has never worked that way ever in any promotion.

You can fast count the guy you want to lose, you can beat him up, you can mysteriously get something in your eye or conveinyantly pull a muscle in your arm when he's going for a pin but dag nabit, when his shoulders are down they still gotta be down for 3.

 

Don't get the ppl who thought it was dumb for Cena to lose as well. The Rock's coming back for more shows, this wasn't the blow off of the story it was the start or atleast first big peak. Even tho half or more of the crowd hates him, Cena's still the #1 good guy and the #1 good guy doesn't need to win until the end.

 

If Cena won whear would you go from thear? You're pretty much stuck with Rock chasing him for a re-match which doesn't work as well. With Rock winning you can stretch out Cena's chase for redemption and fight back to the top and insert any # of guys in the middle of the story to try and take down Rock. I'd go all the way and fuckin have Rock run through as much of the roster as you can, take the title off Punk late in the year, Cena wins the Rumble and gets his win back at Mania next year the conquering hero which would mean so much more then if he'd beaten him first time out no sweat.

[El-P]

Isn't the basic problem that the only match-ups they can save for Wrestlemania and not run on TV or their 11 other PPVs are ones involving returning superstars?

The issue is that WM is mostly a nostalgia show now. Has been for years. Save for Punk vs Jericho, the entire WM card was built around Taker, Michaels, HHH and Rock. The rest was an afterthought.

 

Since when did Wrestlemania undercards not suck?

 

Well, that's true, but my point was that Mania has been built around nostalgia matches only for the last few years. Flair's retirement. Michaels vs Taker. Michael's retirement. Rock coming back. HHH vs Taker. Now the name Lesnar is being thrown around, whatever that's worth, and he's nowhere near as big of a star Meltz think he is as far as wrestling goes. He's another guy from the past.