JerryvonKramer Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Throughout wrestling history, there have been a lot of guys who are thought of as good talkers who then -- for logical enough reasons -- are given a spot as a colour commentator. However, what often happens is that said guy with a career of fantastic promos behind him absolutely sucks in the announce booth. 1. What are some of the best examples of this? We all know about Billy Graham and Dusty Rhodes, but trying to unearth some less obvious ones. Maybe they only spent a few matches on colour, or maybe they were on a C-show. 2. Why should this happen so often? In theory, announcing is not so far removed from promos: you are trying to get key points across while getting the promotion and angle you're working across ... it's not a million miles away. Discuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Dusty was a really good announcer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ric Flair is HORRIBLE behind the booth. His voice isn't really suited well for it. I'm not sure how Randy Savage managed to call three hour shows in his Randy Savage voice and not do permanent damage to his vocal cords. (I guess it's possible he did.) I think one reason color commentary is harder for some wrestlers is that they shouldn't be putting themselves over all that much, and also because I don't think it is the same skill set. Color guys should sound relatively upbeat and speak in soundbytes (to quote Jim Ross) while a wrestling promo is usually angrier with more time to elaborate on a specific topic. I've noticed that sometimes wrestlers take too long to make their point when doing color, and by the time they get to it, it's irrelevant because the match has shifted gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Just seems like no one can really do it apart from Ventura. Heenan worked as a more comedy colour man, but most guys just bomb in that role. Michael Hayes wasn't a good announcer. Piper wasn't very good. Lawler was/ is barely adequate. Guess one thing you need is intelligence and the ability to give off the impression you are thinking critically and analytically. Ventura absolutely nailed it, but who else ever has? Dusty was a good announcer? News to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Lawler has been really good at times. The problem isn't Lawler's skills, the problem is the persona he is expected to portray. Michael Hayes was a great color guy. I've said before that I think he was better than Ventura, and I stand by that. Why do you think he wasn't good? I thought Piper was really good. He was just expected to scream too much. Honky Tonk Man wasn't terrible by any means. Dusty was not at all a good announcer in the traditional sense, but his personality added ... color ... to the broadcasts, and in that sense, he was enjoyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm going mainly on his Doc Hendrix stuff and I wasn't a fan. I only got up to 85 on the Mid-South set so I guess if his best stuff was in UWF I'm missing that (and WCCW). With Dusty, I can't help but feel that the three-man announce team was a clusterfuck, Tony not getting Dusty, Tony not getting Bobby, Bobby and Dusty not getting each other. Terrible stuff in 95, just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Dusty and Tony were a great team on Saturday Night. They got the storylines over and had fun doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Jake was awesome on that one wcw sn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I'm going mainly on his Doc Hendrix stuff and I wasn't a fan. I only got up to 85 on the Mid-South set so I guess if his best stuff was in UWF I'm missing that (and WCCW).You didn't expect there to be a difference between Michel Hayes in his mid 30s in 1995 WWF and Michael Hayes a decade younger produced by Bill Watts while teaming with Jim Ross? Like Loss said, you have to keep in mind where they're working and what persona they were given. Jerry Lawler in the USWA was excellent on color. Heel WWF Jerry Lawler could be good at the wisecracking heel color commentator role but was generally too reliant on his jokes. "Puppies" Lawler was abominable. Babyface WWE Lawler who finally wears street clothes when he announces is wildly inconsistent depending on who he's partnered with (he seemed like he was having a lot more fun when Punk was on the team and was much better than usual), what he's given to call, whether or not he's paying attention to Smackdown, etc. Hayes never did commentary in WCCW. It was mainly the UWF, WCW, and the WWF. He was excellent in the UWF. In WCW, he started out about the same when partnered with Ross and then did some tremendously entertaining work with Jimmy Garvin & Lance Russell on WCW Pro. As the Freebirds gimmick makeover (d)evolved, he also suffered as an announcer and his stint hosting Main Event wasn't any good. I THINK he might've ended up on Worldwide eventually but it was during a period I didn't see the show due to time slot issues. Then in the WWF he was a completely different character being produced by Vince McMahon with one of the goals being intentional self-parody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 As for the original topic, Arn Anderson wasn't *terrible* for the Invasion stuff but he clearly wasn't comfortable as an announcer. And even if you didn't like Dusty Rhodes on commentary, he did a tremendous job being Dusty Rhodes as a wrestling announcer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think Hennig did a good job in 92. He was a very good partner for Vince. Piper had pros and cons. How do people feel about Dutch Mantell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Dutch Mantel in SMW was one of the best color guys ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Dutch Mantel in SMW was one of the best color guys ever. I've only seen 1992, and I agree. Dutch was fantastic. He was funny, he was smart and articulate, he was getting the storylines over while being a total sleazy chickenshit heel. Tremendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Dusty and Tony were a great team on Saturday Night. They got the storylines over and had fun doing it. "He's going to the pay window, baby, on da mothership." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yeah, Dusty was one of my favorite announcers of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 So was it just Dusty and Bobby Heenan that didn't work? Really brings those 1995 PPVs down for me. Announcing is something that can just ruin things for me if it's not good. One of the things I'm slightly worried about going into the AWA set. I've come to like David Crockett though, so anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ii would be remiss on my part if I didn't mention Guy Hauray who at times was fabulous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think our feelings on dusty as an announcer is a great sign that as a community we've all lightened up in the last fifteen years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Anyone who hops on the 1990 express will hear some high quality Lawler color commentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I was watching the Sabu/Cena match from before the second One Night Stand. Lawler was fucking awful on commentary. Worse than Cole has ever been. At one point when the match has gotten really good, he is struggling to find things to bury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Has Rick Rude done any other color commentary aside from his brief stint in ECW? Cause he was the first guy that came to mind for me. Are we counting Honky Tonk Man as good on the stick. Because regardless if he was or not, he was worse at the booth too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thoughts on Shane Douglas? Personally I love Johnny Polo with Monsoon but I wouldn't call him GOOD by the terms we're talking about. Just highly entertaining. Actually along similar lines, Matt Striker?I thought at FIRST he added a ton to 2009 ECW. I think he ended up going a little overboard though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think Larry Zbyszko was a dog shit announcer but he was a very good - at times great - promo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thoughts on Shane Douglas? Shane was really good. He got himself and the other wrestlers over while managing to rein in Joey Styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Arn was the first one who came to mind for me. Rarely do you ever see such a clear expression of "I do NOT want to be here" on someone's face as poor Marty Lund was wearing during that Buff/Booker match. Piper was bad. He might have added energy, yes, but it was phony energy that everyone could tell was insincere. Listen to him trying to shill the Gobbledygooker's debut for a great example. And what's worse was his general style, constantly screaming and stepping all over the other announcers at every turn. A commentator who can't shut the fuck up and let the other guys talk is a detriment to your broadcast; Michael Cole sometimes does that shit when he's heeling out, and Jonathan Coachman used to be horrible about it as well. Dusty was great in meaningless fuck-off matches that didn't matter. When you're watching some sort of Renegade vs Ice Train endurance test, you want Dusty to be babbling a constant stream of wisecracks and bullshit, just to keep you entertained. But he was much less effective at selling great matches and top angles, often having a hard time turning off the jokes and being serious. And yeah, I loved Johhny Polo whenever he called a match with Monsoon. You could tell that Gorilla hated this kid and Raven was having fun needling the old guy in his own faux-oblivious manner, and the combination was hysterical. I was watching the Sabu/Cena match from before the second One Night Stand. Lawler was fucking awful on commentary. Worse than Cole has ever been. At one point when the match has gotten really good, he is struggling to find things to bury. I wouldn't use that night as an example of anyone's typical work, since it was all too obvious that the announcers were ordered to go out there and bicker with each other as much as possible. JR was trying to be relatively neutral and call it down the middle, but everyone else was arguing like a bunch of lawyers on crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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