Ring of Honor Wrestling

[TheDuke]

I really enjoyed the Pure title tournament. I liked the different rules for the matches and how they did different things with them. I was expecting a lot more from the Final but TV it wasnt bad. I'm curious if next week ROH goes back to being the kind of wrestling show that I didn't watch before. I will say that although I enjoyed the matches I dont feel like it made any stars from this.

[rovert]

I found the final of the Pure tournament pretty flat. Last match of the tapings type of energy. 

Josh Woods showed a little extra but yeah it didn't make any stars.

[sek69]

It's always weird to me when they put a belt on someone who already has one (Gresham was already a tag champ and won the tournament). Like if they were going to do an angle where it came down to him and Lethal and it ended up causing the team to break up, that's one thing. This was more like what was the point of bringing back the Pure title to put in on someone who is in theory going to be involved in tag matches instead?

[rovert]

Gresham is office now so he's a safe pick. Trainer at the Dojo and booker/talent relations of the Women's division at the very least. He's a really talented in-ring wrestler obviously on top of that also. 

November to January is an interesting time of year for ROH traditionally. They use to follow the old New Japan model of annual contracts that would be renewed every January. Like with New Japan they were pressured by competition from WWE to offer 2-5 year deals a few years ago. But still a lot of deals are up this January even so. And once again WWE is again on a big signing spree - Dragon Lee seems to be leaving ROH for example. Also with COVID ROH will have to really think about releasing some of the exiled foreign talent. So yeah you'd would put your titles on your core roster as much as possible right now.

[Migs]

3 hours ago, rovert said:

Gresham is office now so he's a safe pick. Trainer at the Dojo and booker/talent relations of the Women's division at the very least. He's a really talented in-ring wrestler obviously on top of that also. 

November to January is an interesting time of year for ROH traditionally. They use to follow the old New Japan model of annual contracts that would be renewed every January. Like with New Japan they were pressured by competition from WWE to offer 2-5 year deals a few years ago. But still a lot of deals are up this January even so. And once again WWE is again on a big signing spree - Dragon Lee seems to be leaving ROH for example. Also with COVID ROH will have to really think about releasing some of the exiled foreign talent. So yeah you'd would put your titles on your core roster as much as possible right now.

I certainly get going with a core guy, but it feels like they could have made Tracy Williams a much bigger deal with a win here, with the overconfident Gresham being bested. Really left the end of the tournament feeling a little flat, too. I can't imagine Williams is a big target for WWE, and he's a perfect guy for ROH.

[cactus]

I think I've watched more episodes or ROH since they've been doing the Pure tournament than any other weekly wrestling show in 2020. Last time I sat down and watch a full ROH before the tournament must of been at least five years ago. It's been a super enjoyable product that helped me discover some newer talents. Even Jay Lethal was palatable! Tracy Williams and Fred Yehi are ace, and I'm glad Gresham is getting more of chance to show off his skills. He was always an absolute treat whenever he popped during the Rev Pro shows I've went to a few years back. 

[WrestlingPower]

Williams was the MVP of the tournament.  The match with Lethal was the best of the whole tournament and the final, while a bit flat, was still decent enough.  Williams seemed to be the main guy that came across like he sat down and really tried to build the story and psychology of his matches around the rules of the Pure title.  I agree that the tournament by & large fell flat due to the combination of MMA stylings and the sterile environment.  The philosophy (as delivered by Gresham's promo) is sound in that they realize this presentation is unique to them & they can create a niche around it.

I hadn't watched any ROH in 2-3 years before starting back with the Pure tournament.  The show this week was really weak too which was really disappointing as the first show of fresh content.  I'm assuming the roster is coming across as really thin just because so many of their champions are from other countries & can't come in and it's just whoever they can cobble together for the tapings.  Speaking of the champions, they have done virtually nothing to let viewers know who title holders are other than the tag and the Pure.  The only reason I sat thru the entirety of either match this week is due to doing the podcast reviewing the TV but after seeing the lineup for next week, I'm planning to skip it.  The opener this week was like watching an FCW/NXT match with greenish talents.  As far as the main, I've never cared for Castle at all, and had never seen King before at all.  The profile piece on him was excellent & made him come across as a "character" in the real sense instead of the wrestling sense.  I would be interested in seeing him again but only because he came across as a 2nd rate Giant Bernard and hopefully he will be booked as such. The sterile environment continues to be to their detriment as it comes across like they are wrestling in a tomb.  Makes these average at best matches a slog to get thru.  They need to figure out how to inject more energy and faster moving action into the show.  I'm afraid it's really starting to show that ROH is just trying to kill time until the restrictions are lifted.  Really curious what Final Battle might be like and how it's going to be presented and delivered.  I can't saw ROH has done much of anything to garner my attention in these 9 weeks.

[Migs]

I still think ROH is doing a good job of shooting these shows and the vignettes are effective, but it feels like they're going to run out of steam pretty fast if they're not building to anything. 

I don't know how they'd try and do a PPV in this context, the Impact ones have been terrible for energy. 

[WrestlingPower]

I'm really curious what Final Battle will entail.  Will it be a week or 2 of themed TV shows like Impact has been known to do?  Will it be a PPV?  And if so, live from somewhere other than UMBC where they don't have to do all the protocols between matches?  Or a taped PPV where taped matches are cobbled together as a whole card?

Regardless, I'm not sure what my interest level would be.  What kind of matches are we looking at?  Taven vs. Vincent, EC3 vs. Shane Taylor, not sure what else is being "built".  Are they going to crown some sort of interim champs from these vaguely promoted as qualifier matches on TV?  Maybe a 4-way with King vs. King/Taylor winner vs. ? vs. ?.  None of that is of interest to me.

I'm struggling to maintain interest at this point even with doing a podcast about it.  Unless they book Jeff Cobb or some international talents soon, I'm not sure what they can do to interest me.  It would be nice to at least know who else was at the most recent tapings.

[Migs]

17 hours ago, WrestlingPower said:

I'm really curious what Final Battle will entail.  Will it be a week or 2 of themed TV shows like Impact has been known to do?  Will it be a PPV?  And if so, live from somewhere other than UMBC where they don't have to do all the protocols between matches?  Or a taped PPV where taped matches are cobbled together as a whole card?

Regardless, I'm not sure what my interest level would be.  What kind of matches are we looking at?  Taven vs. Vincent, EC3 vs. Shane Taylor, not sure what else is being "built".  Are they going to crown some sort of interim champs from these vaguely promoted as qualifier matches on TV?  Maybe a 4-way with King vs. King/Taylor winner vs. ? vs. ?.  None of that is of interest to me.

I'm struggling to maintain interest at this point even with doing a podcast about it.  Unless they book Jeff Cobb or some international talents soon, I'm not sure what they can do to interest me.  It would be nice to at least know who else was at the most recent tapings.

I'm positive the Bouncers were at the tapings, since they were posting from quarantine in their hotel rooms. I believe Flip Gordon and PCO, too.

I'm with you that Taven vs Vincent and EC3 vs Taylor are of zero interest to me. The word was they were trying to get Rush and Dragon Lee in for December, but it's unclear with the travel restrictions. Just feels like they have a solid midcard without any semblance of an upper card at the moment. And guys that they have pushed as upper card guys, like Castle, are getting used to build up others... which is fine, but while I like Brody King, I don't see him as an upper card guy yet. 

[Blehschmidt]

If I were trying to keepy company safe during a pandemic, I think the last thing I would do is have a fucking moron like Flip Gordon anywhere around.

[Migs]

Meltzer confirms Final Battle is a PPV, from the same arena in Baltimore with no fans. Rush and Dragon Lee expected to be there. Given my COVID-era social calendar, I guess there's a non-zero chance I watch that live...

[WrestlingPower]

After slogging thru what I watched of this week's TV, I'm going to be skipping thru a lot more until Final Battle it appears.  I don't know that I've seen either Rush or Dragon Lee but a very few times ever so really interested to see ROH present anything exciting at this point.  I've already deleted next week's show off the DVR recording list.  And knowing the Bouncers are yet to come in weeks 4-8 of the TV, not looking promising.

 

[sek69]

Mike Bennett made his return this week, running in at the end to save Matt Taven from a beatdown.

Interesting that ROH is stating all the titles will be defended at Final Battle, considering the World title (Rush) the TV title (Dragon Lee) and the six man titles (Bandido, Flamita, and Rey Horus) are all held by folks that might have some issue making it in the country. Especially if the expected post Thanksgiving covid boom happens.

[Migs]

14 hours ago, sek69 said:

Mike Bennett made his return this week, running in at the end to save Matt Taven from a beatdown.

Interesting that ROH is stating all the titles will be defended at Final Battle, considering the World title (Rush) the TV title (Dragon Lee) and the six man titles (Bandido, Flamita, and Rey Horus) are all held by folks that might have some issue making it in the country. Especially if the expected post Thanksgiving covid boom happens.

Maybe they figure if they can't make it in now it's time to crown new champs? If they can't get them in for this, I'd imagine contracts are going to be expiring, since a high percentage of these guys were probably on one year deals. 

ROH seems like a pretty reasonable landing spot for Bennett - him teaming with Taven has at least a little bit of juice.

[WrestlingPower]

Glad to see Bennett back.  They need more "names" like him coming in to give some air of importance to things.  Maybe Chris Hero can return.

I think I read that Dragon Lee & Rush both have contracts coming due in Dec/Jan.  Not sure about the others.  I thought Horus and/or Bandido were actual Americans, is that not true?  IF they can get some of these guys in to drop belts, that's at least better than them never coming back.

[sek69]

Pretty sure Dragon Lee wants to stay since it allows him to work New Japan when that becomes something that is possible to do again. 

[Blehschmidt]

8 hours ago, WrestlingPower said:

Glad to see Bennett back.  They need more "names" like him coming in to give some air of importance to things.  Maybe Chris Hero can return.

I think I read that Dragon Lee & Rush both have contracts coming due in Dec/Jan.  Not sure about the others.  I thought Horus and/or Bandido were actual Americans, is that not true?  IF they can get some of these guys in to drop belts, that's at least better than them never coming back.

I think Horus lives in California. Bandido and Flamita are both from and live in Mexico.

[WrestlingPower]

I saw the Week By Week.  That show is much better than the TV, I guess because we get recaps and don't have to sit thru the matches in the sterile environment.  The packages they do continue to be top notch.

Hoping to see them make good use of Bennett & Taven as a tag team, they were really good together here & in NJ before Bennett left.  Maybe they can build around them & get them away from the freakshow fued.

[G. Badger]

ROH has their Final Battle commercial up on YouTube. If you look closely Rhett Titus is a member of The Foundation with Gresham, Lethal, and Williams. Not sure if they announced that anywhere but, its from a promotional video/photo so its legit. Not sure how he fits but, he's been with the company a long time so maybe that's it.

[TheDuke]

I enjoyed the Jay Lethal vs Josh Woods match. These pure rules matches are really enjoyable for me to watch. Also I like being able to hear what the announcers are saying. The announcing is enjoyable to me here because they are talking about the match like it's a sport and talking about the strategy and what not. 

[WrestlingPower]

The Titus reveal was done in an interview on the Week By Week a couple weeks back.  Yeah, not enthused about him being repackaged yet again but they seem determined to keep him employed.

I really enjoyed this week's episode in particular the Hoss Battle with Shane Taylor & Brody King just beating the fudge out of each other.  I had never seen King until starting to watch ROH in recent months so he's over with me as a contender for their title.  Taylor, not so much, send him back to the TV title picture.

I was never a big fan of shoot style wrestling or MMA and while I can appreciate the strategy of the Pure matches, they have worn out their welcome a bit with me.  I am looking forward to seeing Walters vs. Williams but to me that's a division that should be on TV maybe every 3rd or 4th week, not getting like 50% of the TV time.

[G. Badger]

22 hours ago, WrestlingPower said:

The Titus reveal was done in an interview on the Week By Week a couple weeks back.  Yeah, not enthused about him being repackaged yet again but they seem determined to keep him employed.

I really enjoyed this week's episode in particular the Hoss Battle with Shane Taylor & Brody King just beating the fudge out of each other.  I had never seen King until starting to watch ROH in recent months so he's over with me as a contender for their title.  Taylor, not so much, send him back to the TV title picture.

I was never a big fan of shoot style wrestling or MMA and while I can appreciate the strategy of the Pure matches, they have worn out their welcome a bit with me.  I am looking forward to seeing Walters vs. Williams but to me that's a division that should be on TV maybe every 3rd or 4th week, not getting like 50% of the TV time.

Ah that makes sense about it on their YouTube show seeing as I don't watch it That being said, they really should cut down on the disconnect between the TV show and YouTube. The Allure & Quinn stuff was never addressed on TV but, was a big deal on their website/YT.

I've really enjoyed Brody's matches with Dalton and Shane. He's going to be facing Rush at Final Battle and I wouldn't be surprised if they gave the belt to him.

 

[sek69]

IMO it was smart to do the Pure stuff as their no-crowd COVID era kickoff. There's a good chance it would have died in front of a live crowd, so you eliminate that possibility and get your audience used to the new setup. 

[SirEdger]

11 hours ago, G. Badger said:

Ah that makes sense about it on their YouTube show seeing as I don't watch it That being said, they really should cut down on the disconnect between the TV show and YouTube. The Allure & Quinn stuff was never addressed on TV but, was a big deal on their website/YT.

I've really enjoyed Brody's matches with Dalton and Shane. He's going to be facing Rush at Final Battle and I wouldn't be surprised if they gave the belt to him.

 

The first time I saw Brody King was a match he had with Jungle Boy in PWG in January 2019 (think it's the first Jungle Boy match I saw as well) and I'd be damned if I didn't say I wasn't entertained by what I saw. Typical hoss that I like to see in the ring and with Jungle Boy bumping like crazy for him, just made the match better.

I could get behind Brody King as ROH World Champion. Been a while since we haven't seen a brute holding the title and I kinda miss the days when Samoa Joe was running roughshod over the company as the champ.