Slasher Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Only problem I have with the Punk angle is this is like his fourth or fifth turn now. He's approaching Big Show/Kane levels and will run a risk of damaging trust if he keeps doing it. Compare that with Cena and Orton who has been on top longer and only turned once or twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Turned Heel on Hardy Turned Face last year. Did I miss any? I know he swerved the New Blood/Breed/Whatever for a night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Punk debuted as a face in 2006. Turned heel in 2009. Turned face in 2011. Turned heel in 2012? 2 or 3 times he's turned. Orton debuted as a face in 2002. Turned heel in 2003. Turned face in 2004. Turned heel in 2005. Turned face in 2010. 4 turns. Punk still has less. Cena's only turned twice. You're right on Big Show and Kane. I've lost count there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Ric Flair is still the gold standard for turns. Lex Luger is up there too, although Big Show and Kane probably surpassed him by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Kane doesn't turn, really. He just IS. They usually don't bother making sense of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I split this off into its own topic because it's worth discussing on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I'm guessing Kane might be a considerable distance behind Show. Show turned three times in '99 alone (Love ya, Russo). I remember the WM15 face turn, but I can't even remember how he turned the other two times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Forgot about Cena debuting as a face and Orton's 2004 face run but honestly I think point stands. Orton has only one extra turn with about 3 years on Punk in WWE. Also lets be honest, Punk is turning face again by next year. No way this sticks longer than 6 months. It's just excessive for a guy who is supposed to be a true main eventer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Kane doesn't turn, really. He just IS. They usually don't bother making sense of it.This. Kane just kind of drifts between what they need him to do. If they have a top-ish heel without a program, they'll feud him with Kane, whether Kane is a babyface at that time or not. If they have a top-ish heel without a program, they'll feud him with Kane, whether Kane is a heel at that time or not. He's kind of the ultimate tweener at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I think in WWE: Big Show debuted as a heel aligned with McMahon Turned face at Wrestlemania 15 Turned heel and aligned with Taker in summer 1999 Turned face again and won the title in fall 1999 Turned heel and feuded with The Rock beginning 2000 Turned face with comedy character spring 2000 Turned heel on Taker fall 2000 Turned face during Invasion summer 2001 Turned heel when Invasion ended fall 2001 Turned face in fall 2004 Turned heel in ECW summer 2006 Returns and beats up Rey (heel), feuds with Mayweather (heel), but then becomes face in feud with Mayweather Turns heel on Undertaker fall 2007 Turns face after ShowMiz breaks up spring 2010 Turns heel in 2012 That's a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I remember when Paul Orndorff was the gold standard for number of turns, but in retrospect it wasn't that many. Heel for much of his early career. Came into WWF as a heel. Turned babyface after WM1. Turned heel on Hogan some time after WM2. Turned back babyface between WM3 and Survivor Series. Stayed babyface up until he left WWF and his first retirement. Was pretty much a babyface from his comeback through his first WCW run. (Don't really count acting heelish during that one off match with Kerry Von Erich). Turned heel shortly after his arrival in SMW. Stayed heel for his SMW and second WCW runs up until his career ending injury. Don't really count appearances after that. Am I missing something? That's only 4 turns in his active career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I wouldn't count the jumps for Orndorff but 3 turns in a 4 year run in '80s WWF is pretty insane when you think about how they booked back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I wouldn't count the jumps for Orndorff but 3 turns in a 4 year run in '80s WWF is pretty insane when you think about how they booked back then. Fair enough, I guess it just shows how times have changed, that was a lot for the time but a few people have topped that since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 About Show, from the list above, it seems like he averages a turn per year. Punk is averaging a turn per 1.5 years, not much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Jericho is another. Just in WWE: 1999, Debut - Heel 1999, Chyna stuff - Face 2001, feud with Rock - Heel 2004, Trish/Christian - Face 2005, Cena departing feud - Heel 2007, Return - Face 2008, Michaels feud - Heel 2012, Return - Face 2012, Punk feud - Heel He's been in WWE for 13 years. He's been active for roughly 9 of those years. So that's a lot of turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 What about Vince? Face to fall 1997 Heel to spring 1999 Face to Summer 1999 Heel to winter 1999 Face to mid 2000? Memory loses it then but there was the turn in early 2002 until the Hogan/Mr America or Taker fued in mid/late 2003? I know he's not a constant on screen talent but for at less 6 years he swapped about a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Kane is: Heel until 1998 Turns face after Judgment Day 1998 Turns heel leading up to Summerslam 2000 Re-teams with Undertaker and turns face again early 2001 Turns heel after unmasking 2003 Turns face after miscarriage in 2004 Turns heel in 2008 I think Kane turned face again in 2009 and reunited with Taker Turns on Taker in 2010 Turns face again in 2011 Returns as heel in 2012 I think he just became a face again. Also, I think Jericho returned as a heel this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 28, 2012 Report Share Posted July 28, 2012 Big Show wins if you factor in turns from WCW as well. Debuts as heel Kind of turned babyface to defend the belt against Hollywood Hogan Turns heel to join nWo turns face and leaves nWo turns back heel to re-join nWo is kicked out of the nWo when Wolfpac and Hollywood merge turning babyface right before his departure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm surprised nobody mentioned Kurt Angle. Debuts as a heel in 1999 Turns face with the rest of the WWF in 2001 Turns heel by joining the Alliance later in 2001 Turns face after returning from injury in 2003 Turns heel on Eddy in 2004 Turns face after the Cena feud in 2006 Then there's all his turns in TNA, which I haven't bothered to keep track of. Note that Vince directed him to join the Alliance as a mole, so depending on your perspective, you could add turning on the Alliance at Survivor Series and aligning with Vince the next night to the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm not typing it all out, but I'd put money on Luger being the most. At least as many as Show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well, let me see if I can put the Luger saga together, sticking with JCP, WCW and WWF (although I'm missing some dates, just counting the number of turns). Debuts as heel in JCP with Four Horsemen. Turns face after being kicked out of Horsemen. Turns heel to kick off feud with Ricky Steamboat (summer 1989). Turns face to save Sting from Horsemen beatdown (spring 1990). Turns heel out of nowhere at GAB 1991. Debuts as heel in WWF under The Narcissist gimmick (early 1993). Turns face after bodyslamming Yokozuna (summer 1993). Returns to WCW as a quasi-face (fall 1995 return), before turning heel at Halloween Havoc 1995. Remains heel until Hall and Nash arrive and turns face (summer 1996). Remains face until nWo Black and White-Wolfpack reunion, then turns heel on Goldberg (January 1999). Remains heel until New Blood-Millionaire's Club angle begins, then turns face (spring 2000). Disappears from TV then returns as heel (late summer 2000). I think that covers everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Didn't he ever join The Million Dollar Corporation? Also, when he's allied with Sullivan and still tagging with Sting, when was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Didn't he ever join The Million Dollar Corporation? Also, when he's allied with Sullivan and still tagging with Sting, when was that? I think the storyline was DiBiase claimed Luger had joined, but it was a swerve and Tatanka ended up turning on Luger and joining the Corporation. Luger allied with the Dungeon of Doom and tagging with Sting was 95/96, after he returned to WCW and before the start of the NWO angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I think there were at least a couple of other teased fake turns with him, like trying to re-friend Sting during Russo's tenure in late 99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 In August 1999 he was running out to save Sting from beatdowns as well. I don't know if he was a face at the time though. I don't think he'd turned face. It was all very confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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