Top 100 List

[Victator]

What shitty matches did Gang have? Also he had the US belt for a little over a month and was gone right after he lost it. He talked about in his shoot, how WCW would not give him a contract in 96.

[JerryvonKramer]

The matches with Sid and El Gigante spring to mind. And most of his 95 stuff was total shite.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Hulk Hogan- I like Hogan as a worker much more than I used to, but I think he was too formulaic too often for me to consider one fo the 100 best. You could call him a victim of his own success, but, to be fair, I don't know if even his best stuff is "top 100 wrestler" good.

 

Roddy Piper- Piper is much like The Rock for me. Not the greatest worker mechanically, but his charisma always draws you into his matches, and makes him seem better than perhaps he really is. I would probably have Rocky above him, and I don't think Rocky would make my top 100.

 

Sean Waltman- Waltman's tricky, and is the kind of guy I'd just have to make the list before being able to say with any accuracy whether he'd be on it or not. I thought he was a great worker in the early 90s, and I always thought he broke down early, but going back and watching his late 90s and beyond stuff, that's clearly not true.

 

Lex Luger- I'm not sold on Luger ever having been great. I know he had this supposed great run in the late 80s, but from the evidence I've seen, he was never really more than good. I don't see him as a serious contender.

 

Scott Hall- I like Hall a lot, but I'd hate to think there weren't at least 100 guys better than him.

 

Scott Steiner- He was a very impressive spot monkey. His most notable singles run was mostly made up of pretty terrible matches though.

 

Jake Roberts- I'd have to see early Jake to be sure of anything. I know I found his stuff in WWF quite boring more often than not. I felt he needed a really hot feud to get good results.

 

John Tenta- Another guy I like, but I don't see him as a top 100 guy.

 

Magnum T.A.- I've only really seen the 'big' Magnum matches, so it wouldn't be fair to say.

 

Chris Jericho- Jericho would probably make my list towards the back end. I agree that he's overrated, in that he was never the elite worker that a lot of people made him out to be, but I do think he was at least good for a long enough period of time to make the cut.

 

Brian Pillman- I don't think he has the longevity. I'm a big longevity guy.

 

Dustin Rhodes/Goldust- I'd have him right around Jericho I think. At his best, he was quite a bit better than Jericho, but he has some pretty bad lows too. One of my personal favourites, so I would hope to find a place for him.

 

Chris Candido- just an average worker, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Bam Bam Bigelow- Bammer was pretty great, but I don't think he reached his true potential, and ever put a really strong run together.

 

Hennig, Dibiase, Rude

 

Rude possibly had the highest peak, but I thought he could be dull as shit far too often in his WWF run. Sometimes, I find the best way to decide head-to-heads like this is to look not at the peaks but the troughs. At his worst, Hennig never bored me, and he was pretty great at his best. Ted may have the most consistency of the three, and fits nicely in the middle.

 

Flair, Funk, Lawler

 

Tight between one and two, and it's possible I'd rank them the other way on any other day. Lawler is a ways behind them.

 

Hansen, Gordy, Williams

 

I think Williams is a bit overrated. Hansen is an all-timer. I need to see more of Gordy in singles action.

 

Steamboat, Savage, Blanchard

 

I like all-three guys. Blanchard is an easy number 3, because I don't think he has the resume of great matches/performances of the other two. Steamer and Sav is a coin toss. Savage could make anything interesting with hsi energy, but I did feel he cruised a bit at times. That just puts Steamer over the top for me.

 

Hart, Austin, Michaels

 

Bret is my all-time fave, and I don't even pretend to hide my bias. Such a great storyteller though. Michaels' two careers cancel each other out in a way.

 

Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi

 

I need to see more singles Kawada for one thing. I've never been totally into Kobashi, though I think he's safely great. Misawa is one of my favourites.

 

Bigelow, Bossman, Gang

 

I'd have to see lots more Gang to really back up him being in last place. Bigelow reached heights that Traylor probably couldn't, which is why I have him at number one.

 

Here's a couple more:

 

Rick Martel

Bobby Eaton

William Regal

 

Marty Jannetty

Matt Hardy

Davey Boy Smith

[Victator]

The matches with Sid and El Gigante spring to mind. And most of his 95 stuff was total shite.

When did Sid wrestle Gang? Gang came into WCW, just as Sid was leaving. The El Gigante match is as good a match as anyone was going to have with Gigante.

 

In fact I will guarantee it is better than anything Bossman or Bam Bam would have gotten out of him.

 

Exactly which 95 matches are you referring to? I have watched most of that run recently.

 

He has a decent squash match with Ron Studd (Was still in the Yeti suit). Was not much too it, Gang sold for some of Studd's shitty offense and then slammed and splashed him.

 

A very good competitive squash with Pez Whatley on Saturday Night.

 

He was squashed by Hulk Hogan on Nitro. Gang did a good job bumping and selling for him.

 

He had two bad matches with Konan, which I think can be safely pinned on Konan.

 

On Worldwide, Gang actually got a good match out of Konan.

 

So not exactly sure what you are basing your "Total Shite" statement on.

[JerryvonKramer]

The Konnan matches? The match with Kensuke Sasaki when he won the US title? What are you basing the counter argument on? A squash match vs. The Yeti? Serious? Can't believe Whatley was still about in 95, let along having good matches with Gang at that time.

 

Re: Sid, my memory might be playing tricks on me. I *think* maybe Sid jobbed to El Gigante on his way out (stretcher job?) and Gang jumped Gigante? Maybe that was it, seem to have erased it from my mind.

[Victator]

I'm saying there is not enough data. Lots of guys had shitty matches with Konan that year, and Gang ended up having a good match with him on a syndicated show http://drvictatorpresents.blogspot.com/201...e-man-gang.html. The Sasaki match was never even aired in full, just the finish.

 

 

Can't believe Whatley was still about in 95, let along having good matches with Gang at that time.

"Well I have not seen the match. Let me comment on it anyway,"

 

If you said there is not enough data to judge the run, one way or another, then fine. But you are judging based off seventeen year old memories.

[JerryvonKramer]

More like 2-3 year old memories, I watched all of the WCW PPVs from 1991 till 1996 between 2009 and 2011. Just remember thinking Gang looked terrible in WCW whenever he turned up.

[Victator]

The only pay per view he was on was Superbrawl 6 and that was because Konan sucked than anything to do with Gang.

 

The Sasaki match at Starrcade was a dark match. They showed the finish on Saturday Night.

[JerryvonKramer]

To be fair every Konnan match from that period sucked, so I'm not fully blaming Gang.

[Al]

1-10 of a top 100 list is the easy part. When you get to 90-100 there are dozens of possible guys to rank in those spots. The pool gets deeper the further you get.

[Dylan Waco]

I wouldn't say 1-10 is easy, but it's true that there are only so many real contenders for those slots. That bottom level is definitely one that could be filled with any number of guys

[Graham Crackers]

I don't see the case for Bigelow over Bossman. Where are these great Bigelow matches? His ECW run is alright. The Jerry Lawler feud is good and he shows some potential though I think that's more of a case of Lawler knowing how to work a match around a monster. I give him credit for what he did with LT and he has some fun WWF matches but only a couple are close to great.

 

I'd take Gang in Mid South over any run Bigelow had and he may have been an equal WWF worker. Regardless the distance between OMG and Bigelow is a lot smaller than Bigelow and Bossman. Out of the three Bossman is the only one close to a top 100 and I'm not really sure how close.

[Coffey]

The nature of a list like this is that it will never stay the same.

 

That is a good thing.

 

As new footage becomes available and new workers come to the forefront your list will evolve. There is nothing wrong with this.

 

During the SC poll I wrote about how I wished there was enough Buddy Rose footage to make a case but there wasn't. Now we have tons of Buddy footage and he'd be no worse than top twenty on my list, possible as high as top ten.

 

Back then I had watched very little Lucha at all and and had no Luchadores on my list. Now I would have at least five in my top twenty, one of whom I regard as a legitimate contender for number one (El Hijo Del Santo, Blue Panther, Satanico, El Dandy and Negro Casas).

 

I have always enjoyed shootstyle, but was never fascinated with it. Shootsyle performers did not do terribly well on my list. Now Ishikawa, Otsuka, Fujiwara, Tamura, Han would make my list at minimum.

 

I was a Tajiri, Tracy Smothers and Dick Togo fan at the time, but the only one of those guys who made my list was Smothers and he was one of the last two or three guys on. Now all three of those guys would make my list and Smothers would be higher than he was.

 

On the flip side I wouldn't rate Michaels, Toyota, Koshinaka, Takada, Muto, Malenko, Inoki, and others I had on the list at all.

 

Things change. We (re?)discover Hoshino's, Blackwell's, La Fiera's, Fuyuki's, Valentine's and others. This is a great thing

I appreciate this post & thank you for taking the time to write it. It makes me feel more confidant with my selections. After all, I can always change & update them over time.

[JerryvonKramer]

I don't see the case for Bigelow over Bossman. Where are these great Bigelow matches? His ECW run is alright. The Jerry Lawler feud is good and he shows some potential though I think that's more of a case of Lawler knowing how to work a match around a monster. I give him credit for what he did with LT and he has some fun WWF matches but only a couple are close to great.

 

I'd take Gang in Mid South over any run Bigelow had and he may have been an equal WWF worker. Regardless the distance between OMG and Bigelow is a lot smaller than Bigelow and Bossman. Out of the three Bossman is the only one close to a top 100 and I'm not really sure how close.

As always, I'm not taking simply "matches" as the only barometer. The criteria was "in-ring" not "matches". In-ring, I think you can argue Bigelow was a better worker than Bossman.

[Johnny Sorrow]

As always, I'm not taking simply "matches" as the only barometer. The criteria was "in-ring" not "matches". In-ring, I think you can argue Bigelow was a better worker than Bossman.

What exactly is the difference between "in-ring" and "matches"? Bam Bam could do a cartwheel, sure.... but in what other way was he better than Ray Traylor?

[Victator]

Bam Bam could do more athletically than Bossman. But Bossman was a far smarter wrestler and was very versatile.

 

Bossman was also a really good promo at times. There was this Raw, where he stood toe to toe with Austin and never seemed out of place.

 

I love all three guys and they would make the "Victator 100" which is the only list that matters. I was having difficulty ranking them, since overall they are evenly matched.

[JerryvonKramer]

What's the difference between the technique of an artist and the finished painting?

 

What's the difference between the voice of a singer and the material he's singing?

 

Are great performances given by actors always in great films? Or can you get a great performance in an otherwise poor film?

 

Do great films always feature great performances by actors? Or can you get a great film with performances that'll "just do"?

 

Do you judge the worth of an actor purely by how many great films he's in? Or do you judge him on what he's like in all his films? Or even by when he's good in a bad film?

 

To say there is no difference between "in-ring" and "matches" is, to my mind, totally absurd. Totally.

 

Is the way somebody performs a suplex not important? What about the way they engage with the crowd? What about the reaction they get from the crowd? What about their selling? Somebody could be legit GREAT at all of those things during the course of a jobber squash match. The match is nothing. The guy still gave a great performance.

 

I'll argue along these lines to the day I die.

 

"Great matches" become important when you're trying to decide on a GOAT, when the margins are slim, when everything else can be argued one way or the other. Bam Bam vs. Bossman hardly seems like such a case.

 

Let's not get any further down this road, this feels like the the 1000th time, and don't think the respective parties will budge from their lines on this any time soon.

 

All of which is saying ...

 

Yes, I think Bam Bam was better than Bossman because he did cartwheels.

 

EDIT:

 

What makes you say he was "smarter"? What did he do that was smarter? Or, more to the point, in what ways was Bam Bam not a smart worker?

[Victator]

Bam Bam would work hard and not smart. He would go full speed, when slowing down might be better. Bossman understood when to slow it down or go into high gear.

 

Bossman could play a bully heel, a monster face or a underdog face. Even changing gears in mid match, and getting over smaller heels.

[Dylan Waco]

Bam Bam was really lazy at times in ECW. Like incredibly lazy. I don't really blame him since god knows he was making shit, but it doesn't help his rep with me at all.

 

I think on some level Bam Bam is the biggest waste of talent of all time. He clearly had talent, but he did not maximize it.

[El-P]

Bam Bam was really lazy at times in ECW. Like incredibly lazy. I don't really blame him since god knows he was making shit, but it doesn't help his rep with me at all.

 

I think on some level Bam Bam is the biggest waste of talent of all time. He clearly had talent, but he did not maximize it.

I don't remember Bammer being lazy in ECW. When would you say he was ?

 

(I still think he was kinda underwhelming though, just like pretty much everywhere I can think of. Bubba certainly has a lot more memorable matches, but after 95 there wasn't much left in Bubba it seems. I'd take Bubba over Bam Bam probably for peak, but Bam Bam was pretty much alway fun to watch unlike Bubba, whose last runs in WCW after 95 and WWF were plain bad)

[Dylan Waco]

Bam Bam was EASILY the least likely to work hard on the house shows of anyone in the company. He would often just go out there, run through a couple of spots, go home and look annoyed the entire time.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Bam Bam was EASILY the least likely to work hard on the house shows of anyone in the company. He would often just go out there, run through a couple of spots, go home and look annoyed the entire time.

As opposed to One Man Gang, who during his brief ECW run had a match with Sabu that is one of my personal top ten favorite matches, where he worked his ass off.

 

Edit: Jerry, my point was that, at least to me, there's no difference between "in ring" and "matches". Matches take place in the ring and "technical skill" and "psychology" and every other aspect of a pro wrestling match all are a mixed whole when it comes to "judging" a pro wrestler. To me, you can't separate so called technical skill from personality and all the little tricks when it comes to talking about "Who's best."

[Johnny Sorrow]

That shit aside, Coffey mentioned Magnum TA in his original post.

 

Magnum TA was one of the coolest motherfuckers of all time in wrestling. He had just beat Wahoo for the US Belt when I first discovered NWA Wrestling. He immediately became one of my favorite wrestlers. He just came off so real. His promos were often a little shaky, but they never came off as phony. He was intense. And those 3 second jobber squashes he'd do on WordWide just MADE him. It was so much fun to watch him belly to belly some dude and pin him in seconds! Then when he'd face fellow stars it was always good to great. I can't think of a bad Magnum TA match, at least from Crockett. Flair, Arn, Nikita, Wahoo, The Midnight Express, Kamala and of course, Tully.

When I think about "best match ever" lists...numbers 3 through whatever change constantly. But #2 will always be Lawler/ Dundee Loser Leaves Town Part One, and #1 will always be Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard "I Quit" Cage Match Starrcade 1985. It's just simply the greatest match of all time. Everything about the lead up to it and then the match itself is just perfect. It's everything that Pro Wrestling should be. And Magnum TA was so amazing with every detail. He really would have ended up as "The Man" if not for the wreck.

[jdw]

Mitsuharu Misawa

Toshiaki Kawada

Kenta Kobashi

 

This is another tough matchup between three all-time top 10 guys (top 5, even). In my view, it's a two-horse race between Misawa and Kawada for the top spot. Between the two, I give the edge to Misawa due to better performance against common opponents. Here's how I rank their matches with the other All Japan heavy hitters:

 

vs. Kobashi: Misawa

vs. Taue: Misawa

vs. Hansen: Kawada

vs. Jumbo: Misawa

vs. Doc: Push

 

I have it 3-1-1 in Misawa's favor. Others might see it differently.

vs. Kobashi: Misawa

 

I would generally agree with this, but the Misawa-Kobashi match up after 1/97 annoyed the fuck out of me, and before 1/97 was spotty. The match up kind of boils down to one great match.

 

In contrast, there are some annoying Kawada-Kobashi matches, but across singles, tags and six mans, it overall really quite good. To me the depth blows away the one-great-match aspect of Misawa-Kobashi.

 

vs. Taue: Misawa

 

In terms of one to two matches (i.e. 4/95 & 9/95 depending on how one rates them), I could see the argument that Misawa-Taue was better. Not sure if I fully agree with that as the best Kawada-Taue is awfully good without having the added bonus of the double big setting (Budokan + Carny Final / Triple Crown)... but I'd agree there is a reasonable argument.

 

In terms of a feud / series of matches? Not even close. Kawada-Taue smokes the shit out of Misawa-Taue across singles matches, tags and six mans. That's not to say that Misawa-Taue in tags / six-mans isn't "good", but Kawada-Taue was a freaking hate filled feud.

 

vs. Hansen: Kawada

 

Misawa-Hansen at their best were quite good. Kawada-Hansen at their best were terrific, right down to the tags.

 

 

vs. Jumbo: Misawa

 

I would tend to agree with this. Kawada's last two singles matches against Jumbo were really good, but there is something magical about 6/90, while 9/90 is quite good with a great finish... the same could be said of 4/91. Their final match wasn't so hot, and largely because Misawa wasn't very good in it. In tags the Jumbo-Misawa dynamic had a certain magic as well, a big part of it due to Misawa being the one who Jumbo was putting over among the young guns. That said, in the tags and six-mans, the Jumbo-Kawada, Jumbo-Kobashi and Jumbo-Kikuchi pairings were all fucking great and off the charts. Jumbo was that great, new exactly how to work with each based on their level on the pecking order and what they brought to the table. In certain ways, they were more impressive pairings because Misawa got their easier role to shine in while Jumbo & the others had to find a trickier balance to they dynamic.

 

vs. Doc: Push

 

To me this Kawada. I've always preferred 4/94 over 7/94, and beyond that think the other Kawada-Doc singles are better than the next cut of Misawa-Doc singles. Misawa does have the image of having the better tags against Doc in the Doc & Ace era in match ups paired with Kobashi and Jun. Misawa is good to excellent in a lot of those, but his partners are also excellent and Misawa gets a bit more of the high profile tag matches in there to have them stand out in one's mind: four major Budokan tags against Doc & Ace. I think if one looks deeper at the whole of 1990-96, there are a lot of great tags where Kawada was opposite of Doc. An example would be the high profile 1996 Misawa & Jun vs Doc & Ace matches at Budokan, while Kawada & Taue's pairing with them got buried off major TV in the tag league (showed up on Sammy). When Loss watched them:

 

#27 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Steve Williams & Johnny Ace (AJPW 06/07/96)

#25 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Steve Williams & Johnny Ace (AJPW 09/05/96)

#22 - Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs Steve Williams & Johnny Ace (AJPW 11/22/96)

 

And went batshit over Kawada's performance selling the knee. I just prefer the Kawada-Doc dynamic over the period because it seemed like Kawada was the first young native to be really comfortable going toe-to-toe in physicality / stiffness with Doc, pushing Doc to be just as stiff with him whereas it seemed for a long time that everyone else (including Doc) was holding back against each other.

 

I think the only of these match-ups that's a clear Misawa "win" would be Jumbo, where in turn we shouldn't diminish just how great Kawada was opposite Jumbo in that same period in a trickier role. That's not even getting into Kawada's performances opposite Jumbo during the Revolution era, where Misawa's work opposite Jumbo was extremely limited.

[NintendoLogic]

Haha, I had a feeling I'd be throwing up the jdw Bat-Signal with my analysis. I should note that I limited my analysis to singles matches since virtually all the notable tags involved Misawa and Kawada going with or against each other. On the Taue front, I like all the Misawa/Taue TC matches better than any Kawada/Taue match. In fact, I think that in a lot of ways, Taue was Misawa's ideal opponent. He was certainly more limited than Kawada and Kobashi, but he was also less prone to excess.