Dylan Waco Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Honestly I think until the last week Ambrose has been exposed as a massive underachiever in singles, and Reigns has clearly been outpacing him as a guy who feels like a big deal and wrestles like a star. Ambrose really made himself look great last night and I still believe he has the highest ceiling, but at best he's catching up to Reigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I wasn't talking about as a single, but as a character. Ambrose is simply a much stronger performer personality and talking wise. The more Reigns has to talk and do "subtle" character work the worse he looks to me. He doesn't come off as believable, whereas I can totally believe Ambrose Ambrose hasn't had any great singles matches, but he hasn't been put in a position to do so really. He's had good but not great matches. I really enjoyed his PPV match with Big E for example. If Reigns was put in "big" singles matches he'd probably be pretty exposed right now. He could have a good match with like Bryan or Cena, but against the average guy? I really think they're rushing the Reigns push, and it could backfire if they aren't careful. One thing you can say for the WWE audience is when they feel like they're being forcefed bs they will turn on it. Look at the Ryback career arc. Or Sheamus. Or Del Rio. All "chosen ones" that they wanted to push hard but couldn't get out of their own way. I think the odds of them pulling off the Reigns turn/push the right way are 50/50, and I'm not impressed so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Imagine if you had told someone in 1996 that seventeen years later you would have The Giant, Goldust and Rey Mysterio Jr teaming together at the top of the card on the biggest wrestling show in the world. Just as bizarre was Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley, Triple-H, Booker-T, Mark Henry, Christian, Big Show, Rey Mysterio and Kane closing the show as the 'WWE Legends'. How would that have sounded in early 1998? Oh, and WWE booking continues to be appalling. They are jobbing out Alberto del Rio to Sin Cara on a weekly basis; Del Rio has spent three or four years going over every top name they have, Sin Cara has spent a couple of years jobbing to a load of no names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I wasn't talking about as a single, but as a character. Ambrose is simply a much stronger performer personality and talking wise. The more Reigns has to talk and do "subtle" character work the worse he looks to me. He doesn't come off as believable, whereas I can totally believe Ambrose I don't know about that. The deep voice, the way he intimidates the camera, the short and sweet matter-of-fact no B.S. way he delivers his lines, I absolutely think Roman Reigns is believable. I really don't see how anybody could say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I am interested in what they do with the Shield as far as the break-up is concerned, but they have already seemed to cast Ambrose and Reigns in specific roles in the angle, so right now I am more interested in what happens to Rollins, as he would certainly have to be the wild card in all of this. I also agree that Ambrose is currently positioned to be the standout in the angle, carrying the key moments, but I also agree that Reigns seem to have put things together faster and as a result, he looks more like the star in the end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Oh, gawd, HHH is gonna book himself vs Orton for the unified title, then go to WM as the face champ. (anyway, watched the last RAW segment since I'm probably gonna watch a bit of the PPV. Man, Orton is just as putrid as a promo and "actor" as he is a worker. Cena totally saved the segment.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Oh, gawd, HHH is gonna book himself vs Orton for the unified title, then go to WM as the face champ. (anyway, watched the last RAW segment since I'm probably gonna watch a bit of the PPV. Man, Orton is just as putrid as a promo and "actor" as he is a worker. Cena totally saved the segment.) Cena was really good but it was odd how he pandered to the crowd by pulling Daniel Bryan out of the crowd and getting him involved in the segment intimately. It was almost, to me, as if Cena was building the meritocracy of his winning the title by establishing that Daniel Bryan worked hard for what he got. It was like "Uhhh that's great John, but what does that have to do with YOU?" Everything else was great, and I loved how CM Punk finally made his presence in the angle clear, assaulting Triple H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 If Cena does win I could see him getting his win back against Bryan at the Rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The only piece of the main event acension ceremony last night that I disliked was the delayed pedigree on Orton (let alone that Orton was not in a match prior and could not muscle out of the Pedigree?). Orton just got buried by Cena on the mic and you're headed to, what they claim as, the biggest match in WWE history (or thereabouts) with your heel completely laid out by a heel authority figure. I totally get the "is Cena with the authority?" stuff and it makes for good intrigue but why not just have HHH/Cena/Kane stare down Orton as the show ends? Why are they making the slimy heel look like an underdog with little chance to win on sunday since even his bosses aren't with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheGreatPuma Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Cena did an awesome job overall in the last segment. Loved how over Daniel Bryan is. Sooo, does anyone know how legit/rigged the slammy voting was? I always finds the results of these votes from the apps fascinating and am wondering what was up last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Jiz Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 I watched Raw on Hulu. The final segment was carried by a strong promo. The fighting after was good for the lol but I was struck by its poor execution. So Punk gets attacked by Orton, and then HHH tries to protect his boy. HHH and Punk go at it. HBK lays out Punk, so Bryan gets HBKbback in an afterthought attack that commentary didn't care to bring up HIAC. Orton accidentally knocks down Steph, so HHH is upset at his boy. (He can't just get a tape to see what happened after the event?) Anyway, so we have the following: Cena and Orton on Sunday, teasing HHH turn or HHH not helping the golden boy. Case 1 is a face turn for HHH, and case 2 leaves both heels that says nothing about Cena. Down the road: Orton and HHH v. Bryan and Punk. If this final segment was serious, we have problems between Orton and HHH having a fallout, or the writing tonight was meaningless. I expect Bryan and HBK, but the segment made Bryan look like an opportunistic weasel and not a guy getting payback f for his mentor's love affair with HHH. As such, it was treated as an afterthought and will be perceived as such. This writing was insanely bad since the final segment had no direction or focus past Cena and Orton and that winded up diluted. The obvious problem is what they're doing with HHH is largely why the writing made no sense. Again, fun segment but fun doesn't mean good writing. That wears off after awhile. I thought Orton did well for once, and he seems conspicuously bigger than when I last saw him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena, being serious, is such a fantastic promo, and calling the audible on the Bryan chants shows he gets "it". Great final segment, probably the best on RAW in months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena, being serious, is such a fantastic promo, and calling the audible on the Bryan chants shows he gets "it". "It" isn't rocket science then, is it... Cena can do or say what the fuck he wants out there. Just because somebody like Sheamus or Cody Rhodes may not have had the confidence to deviate from script (big presumption, for all we know they may have discussed the likelihood of something like that happening in DB's hometown) doesn't mean they don't get "it". "IT" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena, being serious, is such a fantastic promo, and calling the audible on the Bryan chants shows he gets "it". "It" isn't rocket science then, is it... Cena can do or say what the fuck he wants out there. Just because somebody like Sheamus or Cody Rhodes may not have had the confidence to deviate from script (big presumption, for all we know they may have discussed the likelihood of something like that happening in DB's hometown) doesn't mean they don't get "it". "IT" Cena "gets" being a pandering tool who uses another popular wrestler to push his agenda? Kinda like how Triple H is legendary for attaching himself to the hot fad vehicles? Is that the "it" you're referring to? Cena did a good job in the segment but if I would have cut anything out, it would be him pandering to the Bryan marks. It does nothing but serve a point that Cena has nothing on his own merit to stand on when trying to get his own pops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 You have an insane crowd. Why not use it? One of Cena's "Merits" is that he chose to make Daniel Bryan the #1 contender even though he was untested in that role and the Company didn't want him there. It was a valid point for him to bring up and it actually sort of elevated Bryan by saying that he ought to be the #1 contender again. I'll agree with whoever said that Michaels was really good at doing basically whatever he wanted to last night. It's one thing I don't give him enough credit for. He's really good at understanding how to move a crowd, both in ring and out. I think the issue is that he used it in ultimately nonconstructive ways over the years at various points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 You have an insane crowd. Why not use it? One of Cena's "Merits" is that he chose to make Daniel Bryan the #1 contender even though he was untested in that role and the Company didn't want him there. It was a valid point for him to bring up and it actually sort of elevated Bryan by saying that he ought to be the #1 contender again. I'll agree with whoever said that Michaels was really good at doing basically whatever he wanted to last night. It's one thing I don't give him enough credit for. He's really good at understanding how to move a crowd, both in ring and out. I think the issue is that he used it in ultimately nonconstructive ways over the years at various points. He is supposed to get the CURRENT angle with the title unification over. It made no sense, really, to reference Daniel Bryan the way he did. He can throw in an aside remark about Bryan deserving the spot, but he pulled him out of the crowd and did a five minute angle with him on the spot when it really was about Cena vs Orton. Sure, Cena gets what the fans really wants to see, and what the fans don't care about, so he highlights the better part of it, but that's not really what he should have been doing. Especially considering, if we are going to assume that it was improvised or added in at the last minute, it did not mesh well with the story told five minutes later where it was all about Cena standing tall with the Authority with Orton grounded on the mat. Every crowd is going to be insanely pro-Bryan, and while yes, it was in Bryan's somewhat "hometown", in reality Cena pretty much took a dump on the angle he was supposed to be selling hard. It doesn't mean much in the big picture because the match was only six days away from that point, but they really were served better if they focused on the real task at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena has a history of wrapping himself in the overness of others to shield himself from the crowd's wrath. It really pissed me off when he name-dropped Eddy Guerrero in Chicago some time ago to get the crowd off his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena highlighted that if he, the good guy, won this Sunday in the unification match, then justice would prevail and all would be right in the world as opposed to what's been happening currently with the corrupt bad guy in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena has a history of wrapping himself in the overness of others to shield himself from the crowd's wrath. It really pissed me off when he name-dropped Eddy Guerrero in Chicago some time ago to get the crowd off his back. Exactly. I'm not going to go along with giving him credit for doing things like that. He is the biggest star they have and has been for years now. He really should not be resorting to this trick by now, and he has too often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena, being serious, is such a fantastic promo, and calling the audible on the Bryan chants shows he gets "it". "It" isn't rocket science then, is it... Cena can do or say what the fuck he wants out there. Just because somebody like Sheamus or Cody Rhodes may not have had the confidence to deviate from script (big presumption, for all we know they may have discussed the likelihood of something like that happening in DB's hometown) doesn't mean they don't get "it". "IT" I merely said that Cena gets "it", as it pertains to going with the crowd, on the final segment of the go home show to promote the PPV. I don't for one second think that others wouldn't do the same if they were in the same position. It was just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena did the really smart thing. That crowd was ready to crap all over the segment and chant for Daniel Bryan to make a point. The "boring" chants for Orton weren't heel heat. Cena took that emotion and used it to get the crowd into everything he said and make the match feel like a hot issue. He saved the segment. It could have died a brutal Lesnar-Goldberg death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Cena did the really smart thing. That crowd was ready to crap all over the segment and chant for Daniel Bryan to make a point. The "boring" chants for Orton weren't heel heat. Cena took that emotion and used it to get the crowd into everything he said and make the match feel like a hot issue. He saved the segment. It could have died a brutal Lesnar-Goldberg death. Ok, so what happens on Sunday? Daniel Bryan isn't going to compete in that title match. What does Cena do then, when the crowd shits on it? Call Bryan out just to save face, again? Fact is Cena needs to find a way to "save" segments on his own standing, not other people who has nothing to do with the focal angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Houston isn't going to have a crowd like Seattle, that was a unique deal. I'm sure the crowd will enthusiastically respond as they tease climbing the ladder and getting the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 Last night I actually dreamt about Daniel Bryan. And he had a fake beard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts