Dylan Waco Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Valentine/Tito feud SMOKES Jake/Steamboat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Yeah, I went with a horrible third option of picking Tito/Muraco. What a borefest, stay away from that. Been down on the Steamer recently, Im going with Tito/Valentine. Lets see what is online. I think I have one of their matches from a WWE DVD comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Tito-Valentine is one of the greatest feuds of any decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 WWF I-C Champ Tito Santana vs Greg Valentine 6/16/84 MSG I expected just a good appetizer for the main feud given that this was the first match of the series and it was definitely a match that got me excited to see more. I am so glad they went with arm work rather than a headlock to open. The accidentally falling out of the ropes leading to a heated exchange outside piqued my interest early. I liked Valentine's transition onto offense by using a Tito Thesz Press and turning it into a reverse atomic drop. I like my heels to bump big, but what Valentine lacks in bumping he more than makes up with in killer offense. I need to watch more Tito because he is an excellent babyface at garnering heat based off his selling. That is only one part of the equation, Tito builds on that with a fantastic heated comeback. With the Tito onslaught bearing down on him, Valentine has no chance but to dump him over the top and follow up with a atomic drop on the floor. Valentine picks up a countout win and a rematch. They don't over do it in this match. Valentine didnt get the figure-four nor Santana get the Flying Burrito (did it actually have a name?), but at the same time it was never dull. It was well-worked and made you want to see the next match, where they can now build on this foundation add layers and spots and really elevate the drama. I am really looking forward to rest of the series now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 WWF I-C Champ Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana 10/22/84 MSG You know how in the modern WWE product announcers will say "I have never seen Wrestler X so intense in my life." whenever they are trying to re-push someone. If there was ever a time that cliched statement was apropos it was this Tito Santana performance because Holy Shit! I have never seen him so intense in my life. There was no denying Tito Santana. He was pissed off and taking it out on Valentine's face. Questions: Do we have the title change? How did Tito's leg get hurt? I am so excited for the rematch because I am assuming Valentine is going to grab a hold of that leg and elevate the quality from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 They were really trying to capitalize on Kung-Fu with Steamboat's character in the WWF because everyone needs a gimmick.Kung- Fu had been off the air since 1975. It was more "everyone needs a gimmick" like you said, and Ninjas were hot in 1985. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Fucked up the post. Read the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 WWF I-C Champ Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana 10/22/84 MSG You know how in the modern WWE product announcers will say "I have never seen Wrestler X so intense in my life." whenever they are trying to re-push someone. If there was ever a time that cliched statement was apropos it was this Tito Santana performance because Holy Shit! I have never seen him so intense in my life. There was no denying Tito Santana. He was pissed off and taking it out on Valentine's face. Questions: Do we have the title change? How did Tito's leg get hurt? I am so excited for the rematch because I am assuming Valentine is going to grab a hold of that leg and elevate the quality from there. The title change was on All-Star Wrestling, taped in London, Ontario 9/24/84, aired 10/13/84. Short match with Tito selling the knee injury from the outset. The 8/25/84 match at MSG is where the knee was injured. The 1/21/85 MSG match is very good and the 3/17/85 Lumberjack match is fun. Actually, you should watch the whole History of the IC title CHV from that link if you have the time. It tells a good story of the Valentine-Santana feud, has the clips of the Santana-Muraco title change, and the story of the earlier Muraco-Morales IC feud is pretty good as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Thanks, Ricky! I watched the August MSG match in full. It is pretty pedesterian though Valnetine does bust out a shoulderbreaker and they were running an angle with Snuka in critical condition due to a beating from Piper. It is really more of an angle, but it is a really good angle. The ref bump -> Flying Burrito -> Santana gets pin, but Valentine's foot is on ropes unbeknowst to Tito/ref (Protecting the ref!) -> Valentine gets pissed, slaps on the figure-4 and breaks his leg. This leads to the clips I saw of the title where Valentine gets the victory where they do a great play on this finish. This time the ref sees Valentine's foot on the ropes and Tito is the one who thinks he wins only to have the rug taken out from underneath him in the form of a high-knee to the back and Valentine winning the title. Between breaking his leg and stealing his title, I would say Tito's Latin Temper was fully justified in the October rematch that I watched. I cant find the '85 Boston match (guess I am going to have to buy the revised 80s WWF set ) , so I am going to have to settle for the January '85 MSG match. Arriba! WWF I-C Champion Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana 1/21/85 MSG The Flair spot that always seemed the most nonsense to me was the fact that all of his opponents suddenly decided that the Figure-4 was in their repertoire. What I loved about this storyline was Tito was so pissed at Greg that he went out and learned the Figure-4 from Jack Brisco just so he could break Valentine's leg. The beginning was good with Tito's punches being sold well and his initial intent to go after the leg. The first Valentine control segment was well-worked, but nothing awesome. Starting with Tito's first fiery comeback that when this match really picked up, Tito is a great house afire and really brings the violence with his strikes. Valentine was great at putting over his fear of losing the title and possibly his leg as he was constantly powdering as Tito was zeroing in on his leg. My favorite transition to heel heat segment is when an overzealous babyface goes crashing to the outside and this time it happened to Tito on his flying burrito. Valentine's second control segment was much better performed and included the shoulderbreaker. I like the shouldbreaker a lot, but I feel like he should be using the shinbreaker instead. Also I didnt like how he marched around the ring with Tito after Tito going after his legs. They played lets try to get the Figure-4 on. A double clothesline levels the playing field and Tito sends Valentine careening to the outside with a Flying Burrito. The countout victory gets a big pop. I am liking this feud a lot and thought the October match really ratcheted up the heat. I still havent figured which match is the really all-time classic. With that said, bring on the gimmick matches! Reading over Dylan's review for the Boston match between the two, it is clear they duplicated the finish, but it seems like the body of the match is different enough (Valentine worked over the mid-section in NYC and used a lot of elbows) that could be the all-time classic match of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 WWF Intercontinental Champion Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana 3/17/85 MSG Lumberjack Match This is definitely my favorite match of series so far as it fleshes the hard-hitting action of the earlier matches with some more time to build to a great climax. They do a great job to get over the lumberjack stip by having Tito have his most impressive babyface shine and Valentine constantly powdering. Valentine takes over after Tito is a bit overzealous charging into the corner. Valentine, aimless at first, settles into his bread and butter working over the leg. Most of Tito's hope spots induce great hard-hitting slugfests. Valentine's forearms are just gnarly and Tito's left jab is a thing of beauty. During Tito's comeback, all the drama is whether Tito can apply the figure-4 and gain a measure of revenge. When Santana applies the hold, the Garden erupts and even I am feeling it. However, it is all for naught because the dastardly Big John Studd pulls Valentine to the safety of the ropes. Santana gives him the business; Valentine recovers; they end up doing the double noggin-knocker and Valentine falls on top for the finish. I really liked this match and it was a ton of fun. However, I would not put it over Backlund/Valentine '84 or Backlund/Patera '80. I need to find the blowoff cage match, before I can call it quits on this feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Greg Valentine vs Jay Strongbow 7/21/79 This is from Philly. This was one heck of a brawl. The backstory here is Valentine broke Strongbow 's leg. We start off with a stare down. Strongbow is stairing a hole in Valentine. Valentine lays in some stiff blows throughout the bout. Strongbow brings in a mike stand and works over Valentine's forehead . He is busted open. Strongbow goes outside and breaks a leg off a chair and works over Greg's cut with it. The announcers did a good job explaining the knee brace that Strongbow is wearing has metal on the sides. That was a nice piece of forshadowing. Throughout the bout Strongbow used then knee brace to try to knock out Valentine and work the cut some more. It was a nice touch to use what Valentine hurt to hurt Valentine. Later Valentine uses the figure 4 , but Strongbow doesn't sell it. I wish the announcers would have explained the knee brace offered protection to the figure. Overall a real good spirited brawl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 If Valentine got good match out of Strongbow in 79 he my have been the best non-Buddy Rose wrestler on earth that year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 I was shocked about it. They also had a decent strap match too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 I wish someone would unearth a Valentine-Murdoch match. My head would explode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 That's the best you're getting. Sorry. It's almost all Jones/Valentine and Murdoch/Raschke with a tiny bit of interaction between Valentine and Murdoch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Will, given the speed of Matt's response, I think he's eager to blow up your head. That's how they deal with Demoliton doubters around his parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Thoughts? Why buy a book that reads like a series of message board posts and bad news site reviews? It was a Christmas present. He has to read it or it's considered rude. Greg Valentine was always packaged as a remorseless killer-type. I though the did that as good as anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine 10/19/81 This is the bout where the title was held up. The work in the bout was really stiff looking. Nothing outrageous, but everything looked good and snug and made sense. First off the announcing really put over the Figure 4 as death. Also Backlund sold the Figure 4 as a match ender. Both guys laid it in on each other. Valentine went after the leg with some nice work. Valentine sprinkled in some of his signature bumps to pop the crowd. Their was a cool adominal stretch reversal where 1st Valentine had Backlund. Backlund then reversed it. While Valentine was trapped in it he was hitting Backlund's knee to escape. On Valentine's 1st attempt at the Fig. 4 Backlund immediately goes to his stomach so Hammer basically has him in an ankle lock and Valentine just kicks him in the stomach. That was awesome. The guys also have these 2 series of forearm exchanges that are God like in the intensity. I lost my shit in the 2nd batch of them and an curious what everyone else thinks. Now I don't want everyone to think it is all about Valentine because Backlund was pretty great. He was great working revenge spots on Valentine's leg. He brought the intensity too and thought his forearms looked even more painful than the Hammers which the whole spot was designed for , but if Backlund wasn't up for the challenge the spot would have failed. Backlund's escaping of the Fig. 4 was great, and really established the Fig. 4 as a match ender. Finally, Backlund's selling of his knee injury was great. He even collapsed at times because the knee couldn't handle the weight. High End Nomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Between the strong early showing, the awesome mid 80s showing with the IC Title and the nice swan song with Garvin at the end, Valentine will be all over the revamped set. Seriously, a guy that was short changed on the first set who will come out of the next set looking like a million bucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Yep. I think there will even be some Dream Team tags in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a bunch of pretty good 86-89 PTW/MSG/Boston/MLG/etc. matches with him too. There are a bunch of Beefcake and Muraco matches sure, but there's a Jake match here and a Tito match there. A Davey Boy match. A couple of Blue Blazer matches. Etc. I might watch some stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 He has one great match with Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 That's one great thing about WWF. There are just so many matches with so many talented guys. Yeah, it was sort of an environment set up to fail, but you'll get random stuff like an 18 minute PTW Harley Race vs Koko Ware match that means nothing but is still tons of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Meaningless depth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Meaningless depth can only help a best of the 80s set whether or not it does much for how much money a promotion takes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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