Terry Funk

[Loss]

I would be interested in someone showing me the way here. I do think he's probably a great wrestler, but everything I've seen has struck me as him being more of a "fun" wrestler, excluding the Lawler and Jumbo matches. I mentioned the spaghetti-legged selling which I'm not a fan of. His best matches also all seem to be crazy brawls, with the Jumbo match being the one exception to that. I like brawls as much as anyone, but I'm more of a traditionalist and think a GOAT candidate should also have some all-time classic matches that don't involve blood or weapons. I'm not saying he doesn't. I'm saying I don't know what they are, aside from the Jumbo match in '76.

 

I've never been a huge fan of his promos, mainly because he seems to stumble over his words a lot, and his grammar is really poor. He seems sincere and has great delivery, but so do the Von Erichs.

 

Do his best matches really stack up to anyone's? Does his longevity overcome that? I'm not trying to be confrontational in how I'm approaching this topic, even though I realize I probably am coming across that way. So apologies in advance if I'm going after a sacred cow, but I'm looking to understand what it is that people love about him. In some ways, his greatness is more pre-ordained and less discussed than Flair's, as I've never seen it challenged.

[Ditch]

The Funks vs Bockwinkel & Lanza, and vs Baba & Jumbo, from the 1978 Tag League, are good Technical Terry bouts. Also the JIP match vs Bock from '83 on the AJ '80s set, and the mid-83 Funks vs Hansen/Brody tag.

 

Terry's versatility is what strikes me most about his GOAT case.

 

-Solid technical wrestler when called upon to do so. I wish there was more 1970s Terry footage from the US.

-Great brawler.

-Great babyface. He's a fantastic FIP and a good hot tag. He didn't just get "you're a good wrestler I respect you" face heat in Japan; he would regularly get bigger face heat than Baba.

-Whether you like him as a heel would depend on how you like his brawls and promos. Anyone making the GOAT case would say he's a great heel.

-Longevity and ability to get over everywhere he went are vital to the case.

 

I don't know that I would put him in the top 5, but I will say that he struck me as being top 2 in Japan for the period before '85.

[soup23]

Glad to see the bockwinkel match listed from the All Japan set. I think it bordered on a great match but really featured superb selling from Funk and real good technical wrestling. The selling from Funk was emotional without being goofy which walks a thin line in most cases.

 

I am vastly uninformed on Funk for the 1970's and really a lot of his sprinkled legacy run of the 1990's - 2000's but one thing that maybe someone can point me to is a case of Funk taking a lesser worker to a great match. Most of my favorite Funk matches (jumbo, Flair X 2, Lawler, Hansen) are all time classics but feature both workers being all time greats. I just would like to see a match in Funk's history that strikes me like Jumbo/Slator from Carnival 1980 or Jumbo/Mil Mascaras from 1982. Hopefully someone can point me in the direction of a match like that and I would perfer it to not be an all out brawl. Funk's match vs. Sabu from 2/28/94 I enjoyed quite a bit but I still would call it more as really fun than great and in fact it was the ceiling for my top 100 from 1994 in that regard.

[goodhelmet]

I will add more later but between Lawler, Flair and Funk, I know for a fact that Loss, Dylan and I all rank them differently at #1.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

Regarding his bad grammar and stumbling over words: It helps him come across as genuine (probably because he genuinely does have bad grammar and stumbles over words).

 

It works when he's yelling and stammaring as the crazy guy heel (how many crazy lunatics never stumble over a word or always use proper grammar?).

 

It works when he's the face (makes me think of my uncles, who are crazy in a charming way).

 

 

It works when he's being something in-between (makes him seem grizzled, tired but still plugging away).

 

That's how it comes across to me, anyway.

[Dylan Waco]

I have house guests over today which is fucking up the monster post I want to make, but I'll get to it. I would say that I see and understand Loss' criticisms and they aren't unusual but I don't care about them at all. The biggest difference between Funk and others all timers to me is that Funk can always make me care about him and his match. There are reasons for this that I'll get into later.

 

I'll also second Ditch in the sense that I think Funk was a master role player and as versatile as they come.

[Jingus]

A couple of people have alluded to one huge problem whenever we try to rate Funk: simple lack of footage from the earlier days of his career. Except for older All Japan matches, most of we've seen from Funk is when he's already doing his "crazy old man" gimmick, or at least "crazy middle-aged man". This guy debuted in 1965, remember. How many of his NWA title defenses ever made tape, let alone the stuff he did as a young man before that? It would be kind of as if we were forced to rate Flair or Lawler with nothing but the last twenty years of work, because we're missing a huge chunk of the guy's career, literally thousands of matches.

[Loss]

I only think that would be relevant if it stopped people from ranking Funk. It doesn't.

[goodhelmet]

We still have enough footage. I didn't include tons of 70s footage on my Funk comp but enough for you to get an idea of how he performed.

[Dylan Waco]

The clips from the Brisco and Chavo match are awesome. I really like the Race title change too.

[Ditch]

I only think that would be relevant if it stopped people from ranking Funk. It doesn't.

It seems like it's impacting your impression of him, unless you haven't had a chance to see more of his technical work in Japan.

[El-P]

Can't wait for Dylan's monster post, as Terry Funk being the greatest wrestler ever is the biggest point we agree about.

[Jingus]

I only think that would be relevant if it stopped people from ranking Funk. It doesn't.

It seems like it's impacting your impression of him, unless you haven't had a chance to see more of his technical work in Japan.

 

That's part of my point. By most accounts, Terry wrestled rather like a more energetic and aggressive version of Dory when he was younger. How many matches do we even have of Terry from before he was already World Champion?

[Loss]

I only think that would be relevant if it stopped people from ranking Funk. It doesn't.

It seems like it's impacting your impression of him, unless you haven't had a chance to see more of his technical work in Japan.

 

To be clear, I am hoping we can discuss Terry Funk on the merits of what we can see for ourselves, not what might be out there that we will never see. It does impact my impression of him, because I don't see the case based on what's out there for him to be ranked so highly. That's not to say I don't like him at all. It's more that I see him on the level of a Dick Murdoch, a great wrestler, but not a candidate for best ever.

[Loss]

I only think that would be relevant if it stopped people from ranking Funk. It doesn't.

It seems like it's impacting your impression of him, unless you haven't had a chance to see more of his technical work in Japan.

 

That's part of my point. By most accounts, Terry wrestled rather like a more energetic and aggressive version of Dory when he was younger. How many matches do we even have of Terry from before he was already World Champion?

 

I feel like this is a sidedrain. People consider Terry Funk a GOAT based on available footage. Why?

[Jingus]

People consider Terry Funk a GOAT based on available footage. Why?

Ditch already covered the most common reasons. Incredibly versatile, good as a face or a heel or a tweener, good at playing a dignified elder statesman or a bloodthirsty lunatic. Maybe the greatest brawler ever. Got over everywhere he went, and oh man did he go everywhere. Even the dumbest bullshit like Chainsaw Charlie, which should have never ever worked, somehow connected with the fans.

 

And finally, Terry's always been a very giving wrestler. Sure, he tends to do that "kick out at 3.1" deal, but how many other world champions from that era are consistently willing to take a ridiculous beating to make the other guy look good and put over pretty much anyone they ask him to? That's important to me. I've got no use for a selfish wrestler who elevates himself by sabotaging everyone else, no matter how much money they draw in the process.

 

And for the record, I don't call him THE g.o.a.t., I don't call any one guy that. I'm far too much of a stereotypical Libra to ever have just one favorite anything. But Terry would definitely be in my top 10.

[WingedEagle]

It's more that I see him on the level of a Dick Murdoch, a great wrestler, but not a candidate for best ever.

This is basically where I've always come out on Funk, although his highs in Japan, NWA, ECW and promo work ensured he was a cut above that level overall, but pretty far from the GOAT discussion.

[Ditch]

I don't think Terry's available technical match footage is enough for him to be considered one of the best technicians ever, but it IS enough for him to be a better technician than many highly-rated wrestlers. If one discounts matches with blood (which is funny coming from a Flair fan ) and brawls, yes that weakens his appeal tremendously.

 

Again, I don't consider Terry to be GOAT, but he's exceptionally well-rounded. I think there's enough '70s-early '80s footage to establish that he was fine in clean matches, but not enough for that to be at the crux of the case for him as GOAT.

 

Murdoch is a good comparison. I think Terry smokes him as a sympathetic babyface, and was able to get more heat as both a face and a heel. Better promo. Comparable brawler and technician. I can see preferring Dick overall, and I can see how they would be considered peers, but again it comes down to Terry excelling at more aspects and accomplishing more.

[NintendoLogic]

The Technical Terry thing is overblown. I never got the sense that he was significantly more adept on the mat than Harley Race. It's become a Steve Austin-type deal where so many people talk about how underrated he was in that aspect that he's become overrated.

 

Anyway, I've said in the past that in-ring greatness can be broken down into longevity, versatility, and peak performance. Terry certainly has the first two down. Where I think he comes up short is a relative dearth of all-time great matches compared to other GOAT candidates. Also, I thoroughly despise deathmatch/garbage wrestling, so his role in putting that style on the map is a significant black mark in my eyes.

 

Oh, and since Murdoch came up, am I the only one who just can't get into him at all? Everything he does bores the shit out of me.

[Childs]

Terry is not a contender for my No. 1 overall spot, in part because I sometimes get tired of his cartoonish side. But I give him tremendous credit for fully animating so many different roles.

 

He wrestled like a classic NWA champ in the Jumbo match. Then, four years later, he was a compelling loon in the empty arena match against Lawler. Then, two years after that, he was the greatest babyface in Japan. Then, six years after that, he had the unbelievably intense match with Flair at the '89 Bash, where he played a hybrid of lunatic and serious threat. And then he had a whole other career in the '90s as indy wrestling's favorite crazy uncle (a hit-and-miss period, but there were certainly some highlights.)

 

It reminds me of something Bill James said about Rickey Henderson: "You could cut his career in half, and you'd have two Hall-of-Famers."

 

The unifying theme is that he found some way to put his stamp on almost everything he was ever in. If you bought a ticket to see Terry Funk, he was going to do something to send you home with a memory.

[Al]

Agree with much of what was said above, particularly the versatility, and that Funk manages to draw people in to almost everything he does. A one-off match against a guy who everyone knows is one of his real life best friends? Terry somehow manages to get real heat in those situations.

 

In the Roundtable thread the Hardcore discussion came up, and in that show Terry was mentioned but kind of brushed aside. I don't think there was ever a babyface hardcore wrestler better than Terry Funk. He was fantastic at selling, made you believe he was legitimately hurt with crippling injuries, and somehow came back. The only wrestler his equal at bringing storytelling to hardcore wrestling was perhaps Onita.

 

Loss mentioned that most of his great matches are crazy brawls. My one criticism of Funk as a GOAT candidate isn't that, but somewhat related to that. You can't do crazy brawls all the time. I think Funk knows that, so he tended to travel, retire and unretire far more often than most wrestlers of his era. He stuck in one spot in the WWF for a little over a year (1985-86) and it burnt him out. I think it marks him down a tad against wrestlers who could perform steadily in front of one audience and stay over.

[JerryvonKramer]

Oh, and since Murdoch came up, am I the only one who just can't get into him at all? Everything he does bores the shit out of me.

As of right now, you have an ally in me here.

[goodhelmet]

There comes a time when a wrestling opinion is so far removed from what I enjoy about wrestling that I don't know what I could ever haves use for your opinion. Disliking Dick Murdoch is one of those opinions.

[NintendoLogic]

Am I banned?

[Jingus]

Am I banned?

Nah, this ain't WKO.