Grimmas Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Good right ups John, some real good matches in there. I think I'm biased towards charismatic guys who are bigger and brawl, but can be technical. Muraco had a lot of focus on his character during matches, I really appreciate that. For example, see Demolition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Dammit Grimmas. Don't troll me into old arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Watched the Texas Death Match from '83 with just the context from the Muraco promo. They seemed to be going for a Backlund snapping 10 years early. I liked the energy early from Backlund and I agree that headlock work was for the most part really well done. I thought it was a very good match, but didn't feel like a Texas Death match. It was like the bare minimum of violence was delivered. It felt more like a really good part of a feud rather than the blowoff. The best part was by far the finishing sequence. Everything after the gorilla press slam, felt so physical and tough that each guy was working so hard to win the match. The German suplex felt like Backlund was actually lifting up Muraco, mostly because I think Muraco fucked up his timing, and that made it seem all the more impressive. The 1981 stuff sounds way better now that I have read all about it. I will have to track it down at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 WWF I-C Champion The Magnificent Muraco vs Tito Santana - 1/23/84 MSG So I wanted to explore the Tito/Valentine feud, but I figured as a primer I'd watch Tito capture the title from Muraco, but I should have known this wasnt the title change since Hogan wins the big one on this show. Well now, I understand all the Muraco is lazy talk. I mulled this over the interminable Tito headlock and I dont think a more boring match has ever happened in wrestling history. At one point Gorilla asks, "Why should he change focus away from the head?" almost as a direct Fuck You to every fan thinking that that was a total, utter snoozefest. At least Tito showed some good fire during the finish run to the lamest Double DQ in history when both men were fighting in the ropes. So at the next MSG show, Tito is already champ, is the title change preserved for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickHithouse Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 So at the next MSG show, Tito is already champ, is the title change preserved for us? Only short clips shown on Championship Wrestling after the change. Something to do with the tape getting damaged and only partial clips were preserved, or something along those lines. I searched pretty thoroughly for the full match and it does not appear to be out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 HAWAII EXPLODES~! A good angle involving Muraco! Muraco looked great in his 3 minute sprint with Steamboat before they did the hanging angle. The martial arts gimmick fucked Steamboat all up you can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 So at the next MSG show, Tito is already champ, is the title change preserved for us? Only short clips shown on Championship Wrestling after the change. Something to do with the tape getting damaged and only partial clips were preserved, or something along those lines. I searched pretty thoroughly for the full match and it does not appear to be out there. My dad was there at the Garden that night and told me a few years later when I became a fan that it was a very good match, bordering on great. I compared it to Savage-Steamboat which at nine years old in 88 was the best I had ever seen and he replied "nowhere near that great" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 The non-Backlund matches that's I've written up, with a general summary comment pulled out of the write up: 06/20/81 Pedro Morales vs. Don Muraco (14:44+) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=9906#9906 "Not a good match. Worth watching to comp with Muraco's other matches and to add to the list of what Pedro was up to." 08/13/83 Don Muraco vs Jimmy Snuka (11:24) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=9072#9072 "You know, other than the chinlocks, this is perfectly okay. The finish is shitty on the surface, it also is there to set up a rematch where Don couldn't bail out such as a lumberjack or a cage match. They didn't have that match in Philly, possibly because Jimmy kept flaking out. They did have a cage match in New York to wrap their feud. But overall, this wasn't horrible. It's more painful to watch Snuka's matches in Japan with Steamboat than this one." 01/23/84 Don Muraco vs. Tito Santana (16:01) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10851#10851 "Horrible match. Staggering how bad it is, and it probably is the worst performance from Don that I've seen." 02/20/84 Tito Santana vs. Don Muraco (16:05) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10852#10852 "After the good opening, the first eleven minutes settled into Tito being solid in working holds, but Don just not there again. The last five minutes with Don on top are very good to save the match from being another disaster. Not a good match, but this could be made to look really good by editing the first eleven into just the "good stuff" then letting the last five run in full." 05/20/85 Hulk Hogan vs. Don Muraco (6:12) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=2759#2759 "This was a decent Nitro Match for five and a half minutes, and built passably in two movement to the "finish" with the legdrop. The real finish is so shitty, and the overall quality of the match so "nothing special" that it's a head scratcher what this is doing on the list." 06/21/85 Hulk Hogan vs Don Muraco (9:05) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=4013#4013 "The positive if that it's double juice with both hitting gushers. The negative is that it's poorly lit with an old style cage so you don't get may decent shots of the juice. The other negative is that it's just a really poor match." 08/17/85 Ricky Steamboat & Junkyard Dog vs Don Muraco & Mr. Fuji (13:30) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=8941#8941 "All in all, a watchable match for it's simple tag structure. As talked about often in this thread, WWF Tag Style in the era liked to bitch out the heels. Even Adonis & Murdoch against the Briscos couldn't work a well laid out standard tag structure. Steamboat, on the other hand, seems to impose his will on WWF Tag Matches. He's going to sell, he's going to work face in peril, and the heels are going to have to do stuff to him even if it's basic tag heeling. It's comforting to watch. This wouldn't be a strong Crocket tag match in this era, or really even all that watchable other than for Steamer's enjoyable performance. But in the WWF, it stands out as being smartly worked. More watchable that some of the tags on here with a better foursome of workers." 10/26/85 Tito Santana vs. Don Muraco (10:21) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10904#10904 "Nothing better captures their rivalry than Tito having an incredibly long headlock on Don, Tito trying to be active with it, and Don just happy to sit around in it right down to one close up where you can see the sweat and drool pouring right off him." 11/09/85 Don Muraco vs. Ricky Steamboat (15:35) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10323#10323 "You do get a very strong feuding sense in this match, which is lacking in two Steamer vs. Snake matches on the DVDVR Set. The hate is there, the spots the play off the recent angle are there, and the heat is there. It's limited in what they do, but watchable." 11/22/85 Don Muraco & Mr. Fuji vs. Ricky Steamboat & Tito Santana (12:39) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10324#10324 "When people talk about bad WWF matches in the 80s involving guys who could work, this is the type of match they were talking about. Sad." 11/25/85 Don Muraco vs. Ricky Steamboat (16:38) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10325#10325 "Not a good match." 12/07/85 Don Muraco vs. Ricky Steamboat (8:33) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10326#10326 "You kind of think these two have an excellent match in them if they took the time to layout a strong match. I just haven't seen one that does that. The Boston remains the best that I've seen because of the play on the hanging angle. But if you could have mixed in either the two sections leading to the double juice here, or the double juice in the MSG match with the heated post match there, you might come close to that excellent match." Dear god... I hated pretty much all of those, and have another 50+ matches in the que to watch. That includes four singles matches with Pedro, 5 with Rocky, 5 with Snuka, another one with Tito, and 12 more singles matches with Steamer to see if they ever had one that was actually good... ugh! Don Muraco: the Bruiser Brody of the WWF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 01/23/84 Don Muraco vs. Tito Santana (16:01) http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=10851#10851 "Horrible match. Staggering how bad it is, and it probably is the worst performance from Don that I've seen." This a million times! If only you warned me... Don Muraco vs Ricky Steamboat 11/9/85 On the Don Muraco sliding scale, this is a very good match, but I would say it is just average. Even at the beginning, which is supposed to be a hot start, Muraco just isnt throwing himself into the match in a way that feels violent. Coming off watching Valentine/Tito, Muraco barley seems to be grazing Steamboat, but that doesn't stop Steamboat from selling like a pro. I liked the work with the sash (for lack of a better term) it was a good way to incorporate the earlier angle. I dont why Steamboat decided (not his decision perhaps) to ground the match with a chinlock when he should be out for blood. In his defense, he did show some serious fire, which is a usual criticism of his. His chops looked very much on point. The transition to the heat segment with a Fuji cane shot was good. Muraco's heat segment, save for the shoulderbreaker (that moves needs to make a comeback) was a bore. The comeback matched the beginning in terms of energy and brought the match back to life. I feel that Muraco could have probably waited until Steamboat got the cane to blade to really sell the fury, but hey he was trying to add drama, I guess can't fault him. As John said, you definitely get the feeling of hate and heat in this match, but Muraco is still working at half-speed, but still the best Muraco match I have ever seen. Don Muraco vs Ricky Steamboat 2/6/86 - Martial Arts There is no sliding scale needed for this match. This is a very good match built around Steamboat's acumen in the ring and Muraco's charisma. Muraco undoubtedly possesses a lot of charisma, it is just we dont get to see when he is laying on the mat in a headlock. The beginning of the match establishes that this Ricky's domain and Muraco can mock it all he wants, but at the end of the say Steamboat is going to kick his ass. I dont understand why Muraco didnt rely more on gimmicks, schtick and general tomfoolery if he didnt feel like working. It would have been way more entertaining and just as untaxing as lying in a headlock. Eventually we do get a Steamboat headlock/facelock, but it doesnt last that long until Muraco takes over with a Samona drop and out on the floor he catapults Steamboat into a chair in a great spot. He then busts Steamboat wide open off a ring post shot. Muraco's heat segment is totally centered around him choking out Steamboat with his own sash and this builds to the piledriver, which he dedicated to The Body. He plays a bit too much with his food before Steamboat is able to break out of the piledriver. The Steamer is cookin and now seems way more comfortable in the martial arts gimmick as a series of chops punctuated by one of the top rope send Muraco to the mat. Muraco dumps him over, but Steamboat hangs on and kicks Fuji before coming back in reversing a suplex into a roll-up for the win. This is the best I have seen Steamboat look in the WWF since I have been rewatching his stuff (I presume the Savage stuff, which I love will soon top this). I liked the Bob Orton match, but it didnt really seem to go anywhere. This match is the type of match the WWF excels in. It is built around a handful of big spots and relies on the wrestler's ability to connect with the crowd to get the match over. Steamboat is one of the best babyfaces of all-time and Muraco seemed more game than ever to stooge to get the gimmick over. Steamboat seemed more comfortable on offense than previously in the WWF. All in all, this made for a very good match. My major quibble is the post-match beatdown by Muraco on Steamboat. What the hell was the point of Muraco getting his heat back. He had already had his series with Hogan. So he was on his way down, while ostensibly Steamboat was on his way up ready to feud with Jake The Snake and Macho Man. Don Muraco vs Ricky Steamboat 9/22/85 - Lumberjack Match Another good contest and I believe even better than the Martial Arts match because there was even less downtime, which is a feat for a Muraco match. Steamboat came out with guns blazing and Muraco did a pretty good job bumping around for him. They do the usual stuff to establish the nature of lumberjack match. Muraco is surprisingly game for doing some offense. He does the Mr. Perfect necksnap, atomic drop and a shoulderbreaker, which sets up his nerve hold on the shoulder. I am not a big fan of the nerve hold, but up until that point he was actually moving around and actually hitting stuff with a bit of panache. Steamboat is really working hard on the defensive to put over Muraco's offense. Even Muraco's Irish Whip at the end of the match looked vicious. Vicious is not a word I would use to describe pretty much anything Muraco has done. I would be remiss not to mention that ref is counting noticeably slow for Muraco's covers. Gorilla and Jess are besides themselves. Bob Orton is on the outside and plays the role of heel running buddy. Fuji runs distraction and Muraco is going to Irish whip Steamboat into Orton's cast, but nothing doing. Steamboat drives Muraco into Orton and rolls him up. Muraco tries to get his heat back, but the babyfaces run him off. It was an action-packed match where Muraco actually looked good on offense. Steamboat has been looking good in this feud. There is just something about him besides the fact that he missed huge chunks of time that has me ruling him out as GOATC. He lacks a big bomb. He relies too much on quick roll-ups and flash pins. There is nothing he has in his arsenal that screams put away. I actually he is plenty good at showing fire, but really his big weapon is just the chop. I like people to have a little bit more variety in their attack and outside of his chop to the chest, he works really light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickHithouse Posted February 14, 2013 Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 I love Muraco. He's one of my favorite pre-1984 WWF guys. He definitely can be laughably bad in the ring. I like all of his stuff against Backlund (particularly Feb and Mar 83), and can't stand the Snuka matches. His promos are some of my favorite stuff ever, from anyone. After 1983, he was Ivan Putski in every way - a bloated gasbag with a "name" that would show up to the arena most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Muraco vs Windham Flordia, 1980. This is an awesome 3 minute mauling. It's probably the most intense I've ever seen Don and I immediately want to see more of his stuff from 1980 Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 A GREAT Muraco Interview about Roy Shires and Dean Ho after the match: The interview is around 10:30 - 11 min in....great stuff from a young heel Don....so un PC for today...."You're gonna bleed Jap" at the end to Dean is classic..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfman Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Muraco is way better than most of the wrestler people rave about on this site. I love the guy on the mic and most of his early WWF matches are fantastic (Snuka, Santana, Backlund, etc.). When he became the The Rock, he kind of lost something. He will always be in my top 20 ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Muraco's best mic stuff was before he hit WWF land.. Wrestling wise, his WWF stuff from 81 - 86 is GREAT. His series with Morales was TOP NOTCH...and of course the Backlund, Steamer, and Tito stuff. I even enjoy (A hidden gem to me) his match vs. ORton after their break-up and his face turn in Fall '87 on Superstars I think.... Even his role in the Adonis Piper feud was really really good...its a shame Piper was leaving or they didnt start the feud a little earlier as they could have gotten more out of that feud, with Piper taking on Muraco and Orton before Adonis in higher profile matches... Yeah, the "Rock" stuff wasn't great as he was juiced to the gills and immobile... Somewhere down the road when Dwayne Johnson passes, they have the battle for the "Rock" name in heaven as a mid year feud. Should provide for some good TV... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 The one and only Wolfman has finally found these promos. The first one is the greatest thing ever, especially if you were a fan of the bad guys. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ov_2b9oFrI and then.. LOU ALBANO IS A SCUMBAG! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUSVxxWcWVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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