Smack2k Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 I really really think that a heel Goldberg could have been a great thing if done right...he was a sadistic looking killer for the first few times you see him then the debacle will happen and it gets fucked up and he turns face again...but I liked the idea of him being their assassin. You could have still eventually gotten to Steiner vs. Goldberg, but instead, do it at Starrcade for the Title..... I was pretty excited when he first turned heel and cut his first few promos...but didnt he also not want to do it? Once Storm turns heel and starts team Canada, that gets better.. The Thrillers are coming...that isnt bad... I dont know, but to me you are about to hit the "good" (if you wanna call it that) part of 2000 WCW that gets better into 2001 before it dies off....July to the end has some good stuff, minus the 3 Way Clusterfuck with Steiner / Goldberg / Nash, but that could have been good to if Goldberg was kept heel and he and Steiner kicked the shit out of Nash before having some dissention afterward, and starting to build that for the next few months... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Yeah, the last six months or so of WCW aren't great by any means, but it's a solid wrestling promotion with some good booking. It just came too late, after far too much damage was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 Really it's just the last 3 months that are steadily good but there is a handful of good stuff from July to December as opposed to almost nothing redeeming at all from January to June Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 WEEK 79 (July 3 to 7, 2000) Match of the week : Lance Storm & Kidman vs Rey Mysterio Jr. & Juventud Guerrera (Nitro). No, it's nowhere as good as it should be. Storm is decent as a highspot mechanics, but damn he's got less charisma than Joe Malenko, and the way he throws some of his moves (including punches and kicks) is just awkward as hell. The funny bit is Rey being dressed as Storm and Juvy being dressed as Kidman (circa 99, with the white tank top), which makes for an odd visual effect at times. It's not much to brag about, and Rey playing heel in vinyl overhalls is just wrong, but it's better than nothing at least. WTF segment of the week : Jeff Jarrett and three fat woman dressed as vikings (Nitro). Don't ask, I don't know, I fast forwarded. I was always a Jarrett defender, but watching this stint has been just painfull despite a few good performances early on. Line of the week : "It seems like DJ Ran lived up to his name." (Nitro). Tank Abbot on Nitro, as he was going toward the DJ set up to play 3-Count's music. Tank is so absurd in this role, yet it's the first time he's really entertaining to me. The best part is that depsite being a fan of their music, he's actually kinda bullying 3 Counts, forcing them to sing after their match, telling them to shut up and sing instead etc... Main event push of the week : Booker T (Thunder). It was obvious they were going away from Hogan when he wasn't part of the PPV build at all. Now they finally got Booker in the mix via a tag match. The winner would get a title match at the end of the show. Booker had been a midcard act in awful angles for ever at this point (Harlem Heat redux, feud with Stevie Ray & Big T over a letter, GI Bro), he's over to a degree but shows not sign of actual solid work, he's fomulaic as all hell and quite frankly annoys me more than anything else. So really, there's no good reason he should be put in that spot when Scott Steiner or Goldberg are on your roster. But of course, there were other, more political reasons why... The build to the PPV has been rather painfull, with absolutely zero match holding any interest to me. The cruiserweight belt has been switched again in a mixed tag match, now Juvy is the champ for those who care. The Perfect Event have been fooling around with a guy in the TV truck for weeks now, another fast forward material. More awful stuff with Vampiro and the returning Sting, druids and magic dissapearance. Oh, Vamp also did a terrorist attack on Asya before the show on Nitro, with a pyro explosion injuring her badly. This shit is atrocious. The whole David Flair/DAffney/Miss Hancock deal is equally stupid. The Triple Threat comeback laster a solid two weeks before it was dropped, I guess because Candido got fired following the lead of his girlfriend. Sad. Terry Funk mentoring Johnny the Bull is very midly entertaining. I'm bored to tears to be honest, as showed by the recaps getting shorter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 I think Russo took a few weeks off because he was angry that Bischoff wouldn't back him when he got Lex Luger suspended for not cooperating with an angle he put together. Terry Taylor was writing the shows and keeping them in complete holding pattern until Russo returned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted August 29, 2013 Report Share Posted August 29, 2013 El-P, I feel like I owe you a hug. We all do. Get some coffee and a long nap after this bender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Match of the week : Lance Storm & Kidman vs Rey Mysterio Jr. & Juventud Guerrera (Nitro). Must have been one of Juventud Guerera's last matches for WCW. I found Lance Sorm brilliant in 2000 for what its worth, definitely a true MVP of WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Stay there, soo close to things picking up....BATB 2000 has its moments....then to New Blood Rising, which gets a little better, and then the uphill climb begins and your enjoyment will return... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 what were the political reasons for Booker getting his push? I always took it as them simply taking the opportunity to elevate a fresh face. Whatever you think of Booker as a worker, the guy was over with WCW crowds. Steiner was eventually getting the big push, Goldberg didn't need the title....Jarrett was a weak champion....people like Nash, DDP, Sid etc. sure as hell didn't need it....I thought Booker was a good choice. I'm probably a bigger Booker fan than most, going back to the GWF Ebony Express days....and I haven't watched any of this stuff since it first aired.....but I remember thinking Booker was a pretty good champion. He carried himself well, crowds liked him, and he would have decent-good matches. He became a better singles worker with time and really came into his own as a heel later in his WWE run, but he was perfectly acceptable in the ring 2000-2001 IIRC. He had that stinker with Stasiak which was proof that Booker was not the guy to ask to carry someone in a lengthy match, and he gets equal blame with Bagwell for that awful "WCW" match on RAW....but in there with a good worker, like Jarrett or Steiner, he'd have fine matches. I really liked the Booker-Steiner series....but I was also a huge fan of both of them and enjoyed seeing them in main events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Political reasons were the Sonny Onoo / Hardbody Harrison suits at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Really? Sounds believable enough....don't know that I ever heard that theory before. Weird. FWIW I thought those lawsuits were ridiculous. Was there racism and discrimination in wrestling? Sure. And stereotypes, not just racial but every sort of stereotype out there, has almost always been a staple of wrestling. But if you know anything about wrestling you knew that the people suing were marginal talents who were lucky to have their jobs. I was surprised WCW settled on those lawsuits, but once it was AOL/Time Warner and WCW had already been sold I guess they just wanted it to go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravJ1979 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Match of the week : Lance Storm & Kidman vs Rey Mysterio Jr. & Juventud Guerrera (Nitro). Must have been one of Juventud Guerera's last matches for WCW. I found Lance Sorm brilliant in 2000 for what its worth, definitely a true MVP of WCW. Juvi was in WCW until first week of October, 2000. He had a couple of Thunder matches in mid-late September with Rey; One of which made the smarkschoice Top WCW matches poll. The match is like 3 minutes bell-to-bell and doesn't belong at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Thanks for the hug. I needed that. PPV 19 : Bash at the Beach 2000 Discrimination lawsuit on a pole match of the night : Booker T vs Jeff Jarrett. Well, not exactly, but in a way that's about it. Booker T was a undercard act in horrendous angles and bad matches for ever, and all of a sudden he's WCW great hope. Mmkay. The seeds were planted on Thunder for this one, and this match is not much better. I find Jarrett extremely uninspired these days, and Booker is Booker. Mediocre match with several "hot" nearfalls, which is why I guess it's supposed to look like some sort of epic, which clearly it isn't. Booker gets the belt because they aren't discriminating black people, well, at least it's fresh, but I can't say I'm excited about this one. Match of the night : Juventud Guerrera vs Lt. Loco. Hey, a rather hot cruiserweight opener ! Haven't seen this in ages. This is nothing spectacular, but it's a decent cruiserweight match getting some time to developp, which is increasingly rare. Basically it's the best cruiserweight match since the division was killed dead in tha Fall of 99. Juvy stooges like crazy, and despite his sloppy at times execution, he's really fun again. Madden is atrocious on commentary, and it shows even more during a serious match like this. Well, we do get some shennanigans at ringside for a while, but nothing that gets in the way of the match really. Actually Chavo was still the champion, as Juvy only had stole the belt. Nothing special but pretty cool stuff at least. Sleeper of the night : Kanyon vs Booker T . And this is much better than the Jarrett match. Kanyon was so underrated, both as a performer and as a worker. He gives Booker T an enjoyable match and does his hilarious DDP maneurism during the intro and the post-match. Thanks to Jarrett busting a guitar on Booker, Kanyon gets a pinfall on the next WCW champion. Well, he should get a title shot next, right ? Right ? Heel turn of the night : Scott Steiner turns heel on Kevin Nash. After a decent match with Mike Awesome earlier on, Big Poppa Pump finally turns back heel, a role he should never have abandonned. Needles to say the turn was obvious as hell, and the fact he was only a babyface for a few weeks didn't make it seem like a huge deal, but at least we get what we should from Steiner now, a strong heel to work the main event. The match between Goldie and Nash was decent for a short big guy power offense match. Swerve match of the night : Shane Douglas vs Buff Bagwell. As solid a match you can get from a Bagwell match in 2000, which is a credit to Douglas. Not going long, the big news here is Torrie Wilson being aligned with Shane Douglas after "swerving" the audience by slapping him in the first place, before interfering on his behalf. Good, Douglas worked wonders with Francine, and the Franchise character was at his best with a valet around. At least Torrie will finally serve a purpose. Shoot match and promo of the night : Jeff Jarrett laying down for Hulk Hogan / Russo "shoots" on Hogan. Hey, more shooting nonsense. The fact the announcers tells us "this is real life" every two seconds confirm it's a big work. Russo's promo is odd as hell because he comes off, or wants to, as a babyface trashing down Hogan, while being a heel character. I'm sure lot of what he said was actually heartfelt, and it's kinda cool, in a way, to hear the shit we've heard about Hogan for years, being exposed on TV. Still, as a wrestling angle, it was shit because it could not lead to anything, and it basically turned into a shoot (like Pillman getting himself fired by WCW). After six long years, the history of Hogan and WCW comes to an halt in the most grotesque fashion imaginable. Can't say I'll regret the guy, WCW would be better off without him anyway. For all the good he has done for the company, he did was a much more destructive force in the long haul. Comedy match of the night : Big Vito vs Norman Smiley & Ralphus. So, after all the build up, Johnny the Bull was injured. I'm glad to see Norman back, but I can't say the same for Ralphus. This guy overstayed his welcome for a long, long time. Usual hardcore fare, and they don't do anything very creative, but Norman getting stuck in the elevator while Vito was destroying Ralphus was a nice touch. Vito's got a great looking and sounding punch. There was also some really boring stuff like Kronik vs Perfect Event, a clusterfuck of a "match" in Daffney vs Miss Hancock, with the involvment of David Flair and Crowbar and ridiculous Graveyard match with Vampiro vs Demon and more 5th rate Kane/taker angle with druids and caskets building to Sting's return. Not what I'd call a good PPV, but there was enough watchable stuff to make it bearable. The Jung Dragons attacked the Cat backtage, which made for a funny little running gag. Hulk being gone, it's really the start of the penultimate period for WCW. Booker T on top doesn't please me more than Jarrett did though. Goldberg or Scott Steiner are the only two that would look right with the belt at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravJ1979 Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Congrats for making it up to Bash at the Beach. New Blood Rising isn't too bad. Also, while doing my decades project nine out of my top ten WCW matches for the decade are from 9/2000 to 3/2001 so you don't have too much farther before getting to end on a mostly enjoyable few months of wrestling. Russo is out as of October I believe so him winning the title and the 49er's gold rush shitfest are just about the worst shit left to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Heel Goldberg could have worked... if WCW had survived and it was a way of keeping Bill fresh years down the line. Him turning when he did, was absolutely short sighted dumbness from WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 See, I disagree....The Goldberg heel turn was fine...it was what they did afterward... The finished product after months and months could have been Goldberg vs. Steiner at Starrcade 2000 instead of Fall Brawl...And as good as the Fall Brawl match was, having more time to slowly work and Goldberg face again and then go after Steiner could have been fuckin awesome.... Them together for a few months followed by issues and then a fallout...I am thinkin it could have been great...and you could still have the Booker and Steiner stuff in between leading to Steiner winning the Title.... My only issue is that someone has to lose at Starrcade as you cant have a screwjob finish there (this is me talking, not the WCW folks!) and we may miss out on the GREATNESS that was the OCt - Mar 2001 Steiner WCW Title run, which MAY be my favorite "secret obsession" title run EVER... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 WEEK 80 (July 10 to 15, 2000) Match of the week : Booker T vs Mike Awesome (Nitro). Not that it is really good, but because it really highlights the fact Johnny Ace is backstage putting finishes together. We get several big moves in a row getting near falls before the final clean pin, in a way that is a reminder of a more Japanese-like way of working. Booker is clearly not the best guy for Awesome to work with, as with most of big guys on the roster, but it's okay. Also, Awesome is doing a babyface turn, refusing to get the US belt that has been lifted from Scott Steiner (for illegal use of the Recliner), showing respect to Booker T and eventually helping him after a Steiner attack (and again on Thunder when this time Rick would jump on Booker). I can live with this since Awesome can get over as a babyface too thanks to his flashy big man offense. What I don't like though, he's that he's beginning to hit on large women backstage... Heel turn of the week : Lance Storm, canadian athlete (Nitro). Hey, Lance Storm is already better than he was during his entire ECW run as far as a character goes. This was the perfect idea for him, the über stern, broomstick up his ass, self-absorbed canadian *wrestler*. Fits him a million times better than the Impact Player bullshit which he wasn't credible (pun intended) in. I gotta give him credit for his rolling half-crab which is a thing of beauty when done right. Comeback of the week : Great Muta (Nitro). And he's aligned with the Jung Dragons, which is another perfect fit. Which is why, of course, it won't last and Muta will be sent into the pits of WCW hell soon. New announcer of the week : Stevie Ray (Thunder). After Mike Tenay was brutally attacked by Scott Steiner after a good interview, a place was vacant on Thunder and we get Stevie Ray, who reconcilied with his brother on Nitro and paid him hommage for his World title win. That's good. Sad new feud of the week : Kanyon vs Buff Bagwell (Thunder). Yeah, "Positively" Kanyon does his finisher on anybody, including.... Judy Bagwell. Gawd.... this is horrendous. Bagwell dragged Douglas down, and now he'll do the same with Kanyon, who deserve much better. Sadly, the fact that DDP's future wasn't clear at this point and the departure of Kimberly (a big loss as she was the best female performer they had, not to mention the hottest one) left him with a great gimmick but no real hot feud to work. It's too bad. Fun new feud of the week : Shane Douglas vs Kidman (Nitro). Natural fit, although Kidman already had split with Torrie when he was feuding with Hogan as a heel. Doesn't matter, we get Douglas making fun of Kidman and Torrie acting like a bitch (aka Francine 2.0), so it's all ok with me. This week of TV was much better than anything we had in a long long time, although there are still some really terrible stuff all around (Vamp vs Sting, Judy Bagwell) and boring stuff like the tag team scene (Perfect Event, Kronik, MIA, Jindrak/O'Hare), and sadly Jeff Jarrett is still hanging on to the main event scene, but thus far Booker as champ at least gives a fresh look to the whole thing, and the promise of Steiner vs Goldberg (already teasing a babyface turn of sorts) is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted September 2, 2013 Report Share Posted September 2, 2013 Kim was not hotter than Stacy or Torrie.....that's crazy talk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 WEEK 81 (July 18 to 22, 2000) PPV main event on free TV match of the week : Scott Steiner vs Goldberg (Nitro). It was short tease of a match, but still, pretty stupid to waste your very first Goldie vs Big Poppa match on free TV when this is obviously the biggest match you have on your roster. If anything it's promising. Post-match sees the comeback of Kevin Nash who powerbomb both Steiner and Goldie. Match of the week : Mike Awesome vs Lance Storm (Nitro). Final of the US title tournament. Nice Nitro match, finally Awesome works with someone who can bump hard for him and work the athletic style he's accustomed to. Lance Storm is already one of the best character on TV, I'm amazed at how efficient this whole Canada deal is. If Russo had one good idea during his whole WCW stint, that's it, Storm never looked better as a character. On Thunder he would renamed the title the Canadian Heavyweight title. Nice touch. The bad part is that the post-match was all about Mike Awesome being helped on his feet by two fat ladies. So sad, Awesome was getting over by himself, he now he's settled with an atrocious comedy gimmick which is distracting and prevents things for being too serious. Shoot interview of the week : Kevin Nash sit-down interview (Thunder). Holy shit. I never knew of that one before. My jaw litteraly dropped. Talk about Hall & Nash "popping the territory", talks about "Goldberg hasn't paid his dues, he hates the business", talks about "no matter what the booking is for the three-way at the PPV, I'm going over" and other backstage insider shit like this. More business exposing than any other interview of the same kind they did in the past. What a disgrace. B-show debut of the week : Mike Sanders vs Crowbar (Thunder). Hey, Sanders looks like a cross between a mini-John Cena and a mini-Mike Enos, and he works quite well already. Decent little match ending with Sanders using Jarrett's guitar (he was at the announcing booth boring me with his usual bad promo skills) to upset Crowbar. Finally a new guy I can care about maybe. Japanese interpromotionnal match of the week : Mike Awesome vs Great Muta (Nitro). FMW vs NJPW. Yeah, I'm a 90's puro mark. The US tournament on Nitro was decent enough, well at least it made sense and didn't had any stupid names in it. Shane Douglas and Lance Storm looked the best of the bunch, while Vampiro looked awful as always. The ICP are back with him too. The Cat is bordering on tweener these days, as he's "friend" with the Jung Dragons who still embush him at every turn backstage (always a fun spot) and makes the lives of the heels difficult at times. The Wall, who hasn't been seen forever, has been fired because he helped Lenny Lane to get his job back. Don't ask, it's stupid. This will lead to him getting with the MIA, like this stable wasn't bad enough. The Filthy Animals are feuding with Kronik. Poor Rey. Poor Juvy. Douglas vs Kidman could be a decent little feud, but the material they have to work with thus far has been pretty bad, as showed by a really lame angle on Thunder involving an obviously fake dumbell. On the lower undercard, we'll probably get a feud between The Artist and Kee Wee, an effeminate model designer or something, over Paisley. Way too many valet around, and not much of them show any talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Shoot interview of the week : Kevin Nash sit-down interview (Thunder). Holy shit. I never knew of that one before. My jaw litteraly dropped. Talk about Hall & Nash "popping the territory", talks about "Goldberg hasn't paid his dues, he hates the business", talks about "no matter what the booking is for the three-way at the PPV, I'm going over" and other backstage insider shit like this. More business exposing than any other interview of the same kind they did in the past. What a disgrace. My favorite part was saying he was glad "they gave the strap" to Booker. He was praising him otherwise, but that was a nice little dig that didn't help anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Oh yeah, that was terrific in an atrocious way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 WEEK 81 (July 18 to 22, 2000) B-show debut of the week : Mike Sanders vs Crowbar (Thunder). Hey, Sanders looks like a cross between a mini-John Cena and a mini-Mike Enos, and he works quite well already. Decent little match ending with Sanders using Jarrett's guitar (he was at the announcing booth boring me with his usual bad promo skills) to upset Crowbar. Finally a new guy I can care about maybe. I remember watching this episode of Thunder after people kept pimping Positively Kanyon. I thought Mike Sanders debut was really cool too, stealing Jarrett's guitar and using it to get the win. Then Jarrett kicks his ass backstage afterwards. That was actually a pretty fun episode of Thunder from what I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Just think...after the nightmare 3-Way at New Blood Rising you are about to hit....99% of the worst is behind you (still got Wargames 2000 to deal with) and the "good" stuff is coming up.....which after all the REALLY bad you've seen will look even better!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy hats Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 You keep saying this, smack2k. Can late-2000 WCW really live up to this hype? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Sin, Superbrawl Revenge, and Greed are all solid to very good PPV's. TV in January is not great. They run the cruiserweight gauntlet on Thunder, which is a decent match, and Daniels vs. Modest is interesting to see in comparison to what WCW put out in 2000. February TV is much more interesting. The qualifying matches for the Superbrawl Revenge match are mostly good, with Helms vs. Kaz from Thunder and Kaz/Yang vs. Styles/Paris from Thunder being the standouts. There is also the potential WCW MOTYC when Booker T returns at the end of February for a six man tag. March TV has the cruiserweight tag title tournament. Week in week out, there will probably be as much garbage as there was with Russo. But as an 8 - 10 hour comp tape, it's really good and you couldn't get that much good stuff out of November 99 - December 2000 for an 8 hr tape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.