Payback 2013

[rovert]

Mark Henry via Twitter is seemingly teasing a retirement announcement on Raw

[anarchistxx]

But this year, in ring, he's better than Bryan.

Well I have to disagree on that. Don't think I've seen a memorable Cesaro match this year, but I can name nine or ten fantastic Bryan matches. Many of them were tags, but he was usually the MVP. As an overall worker there just isn't anyone better right now - versatile, likable, exciting and charismatic. The guy has made Kane interesting, which is an absolute miracle.

 

Cesaro is technically good but there is no reason to care about what he does, nothing to make the matches especially compelling or meaningful. They are just exhibitions. Bryan gets you emotionally invested, he makes you care. He makes cynical smarks jump out of their seats. He has that undefinable x-factor.

 

Think we might as well agree to disagree anyway, people were pimping Finlay as best in the world a few years back, and all I could see was a bunch of enjoyable, entertaining, competent but essentially inconsequential matches.

[NintendoLogic]

Dolph's bumping can be easily retooled. He's worked face in a few matches over the past year or so, and his bumping and selling were on point. And his look is only an issue if it prevents people from getting behind him. He gets cheered everywhere he goes, so I don't think that's a problem.

[anarchistxx]

Main event was dull. The ambulance looked hilarious cheap, like a toy. The bits they ripped off and the worked roof break were too obvious as well =- like the Punk/Jericho it lacked the spontaneity, and if there is anything a hate fuelled brawl needs is it a bit of chaos. This was worked too neatly.

[Dylan Waco]

But this year, in ring, he's better than Bryan.

Well I have to disagree on that. Don't think I've seen a memorable Cesaro match this year, but I can name nine or ten fantastic Bryan matches. Many of them were tags, but he was usually the MVP. As an overall worker there just isn't anyone better right now - versatile, likable, exciting and charismatic. The guy has made Kane interesting, which is an absolute miracle. Cesaro is technically good but there is no reason to care about what he does, nothing to make the matches especially compelling or meaningful. They are just exhibitions. Bryan gets you emotionally invested, he makes you care.

 

Think we might as well agree to disagree anyway, people were pimping Finlay as best in the world a few years back, and all I could see was a bunch of enjoyable, entertaining, competent but essentially inconsequential matches.

 

I care about Cesaro matches more than I care about Bryan matches. I care about Bryan's character more than I care about Cesaro's but that has little to do with Cesaro.

 

There have been plenty of good Cesaro matches this year, but not as many people watch Main Event and he's not been pushed at all after about Feb/March or so. Not only that but Cesaro has been paired with absolute dogshit for the bulk of the year. I'd argue it is VASTLY easier to work Mark Briscoe's gimmick, even with a partner as middling/weak as Kane v. guys like The Shield than it is to have lengthy good/great matches with guys like The fucking Miz, blackhole Randy Orton and Kofi Kingston.

 

This isn't a knock on Bryan who I think has been great especially for the last two months or so. I just think Cesaro has clearly been better and working at far higher degree of difficulty (i.e. more time in the ring, shittier opponents, weaker storylines, et).

[s1rweeze]

Only one f-bomb from Johnny Sorrow? This show must be falling flat...

[Matt D]

But this year, in ring, he's better than Bryan.

Well I have to disagree on that. Don't think I've seen a memorable Cesaro match this year, but I can name nine or ten fantastic Bryan matches. Many of them were tags, but he was usually the MVP. As an overall worker there just isn't anyone better right now - versatile, likable, exciting and charismatic. The guy has made Kane interesting, which is an absolute miracle. Cesaro is technically good but there is no reason to care about what he does, nothing to make the matches especially compelling or meaningful. They are just exhibitions. Bryan gets you emotionally invested, he makes you care.

 

Think we might as well agree to disagree anyway, people were pimping Finlay as best in the world a few years back, and all I could see was a bunch of enjoyable, entertaining, competent but essentially inconsequential matches.

 

I care about Cesaro matches more than I care about Bryan matches. I care about Bryan's character more than I care about Cesaro's but that has little to do with Cesaro.

 

There have been plenty of good Cesaro matches this year, but not as many people watch Main Event and he's not been pushed at all after about Feb/March or so. Not only that but Cesaro has been paired with absolute dogshit for the bulk of the year. I'd argue it is VASTLY easier to work Mark Briscoe's gimmick, even with a partner as middling/weak as Kane v. guys like The Shield than it is to have lengthy good/great matches with guys like The fucking Miz, blackhole Randy Orton and Kofi Kingston.

 

This isn't a knock on Bryan who I think has been great especially for the last two months or so. I just think Cesaro has clearly been better and working at far higher degree of difficulty (i.e. more time in the ring, shittier opponents, weaker storylines, et).

 

I think level of difficulty is important! Other people don't. Discuss.

[Bix]

That gimmicked ambulance is why corporate wrestling is great.

[NintendoLogic]

I don't know if there are too many things more difficult than being a standout performer in WWE's cookie-cutter tag environment. To do so, you have to be both an outstanding FIP and and outstanding hot tag.

[Dylan Waco]

There are a lot of WWE tag wrestlers I like

[NintendoLogic]

Well, I hate like 90% of WWE tag matches. So there you go.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Fucking Punk vs Jericho was fucking great. I fucking loved it. Jericho was fucking great, Punk looked fucking fantastic. The crowd was fucking killer, and Jerry Fucking Lawler is my fucking hero for trying to turn the kayfabe breaking chant "This is awesome!" into a kayfabe "This pro Punk crowd thinks its awesome that Punk is kicking out!" or something fucking like that.

 

 

Fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck...fuck fuck.

[anarchistxx]

The classic Lawler quote of the night was "All women secretly hate each other", which he said with a straight face and complete seriousness.

[artDDP]

It's nice to see a WWE angle based around two guys who just want to prove they're better than the other. Match was ok, good to see a clean pin and no goofy bumps or run-ins. I've been conditioned to expect every major PPV match to end after either of those or some overly dramatic bump.

 

I told my brother, "If there's one person you know is going to put CM Punk over clean it's Chris Jericho."

 

WWE has mangled the booking of Ryback. As a face he couldn't win the big one and as a heel he's already been neutralized by John Cena. Shit, he got beat clean by Mark Henry in a meaningless match at WrestleMania. What fan is going to take him seriously now?

 

I don't see anything remarkable about Dolph Ziggler that makes me think he'll go very far as a face or heel.

 

I get a feeling Daniel Bryan is just being built so that he'll have come credibility when he starts putting over people Vince/Hunter actually want to main event.

 

I'm trying to get back into WWE the same way I was thirteen years ago. I think if I just watched a condensed version of the major stuff each week it might be easier. Do they still run that 90-minute version of Raw on Hulu?

[Wolfman]

WWE has mangled the booking of Ryback. As a face he couldn't win the big one and as a heel he's already been neutralized by John Cena. Shit, he got beat clean by Mark Henry in a meaningless match at WrestleMania. What fan is going to take him seriously now?

But I thought he was the devil?

[Chess Knight]

Ryback hasn't won a PPV match since he squashed Reks and Hawkins at MITB last year. I think most would question why he got the title shot(s) with Cena in the first place.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Ryback hasn't won a PPV match since he squashed Reks and Hawkins at MITB last year. I think most would question why he got the title shot(s) with Cena in the first place.

Personal hatred trumps real sports thinking in wrestling...thank god.

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

Ziggler vs Del Rio was amazing but so scary to watch. The rematch will be epic.

Ziggler is beyond face right now. He's so good in the ring that it's hard for him to be heel. The fans appreciate him so much. Del Rio is one of my favs in the WWE right now and he was excellent here as well. I also love the friendship of Big E, AJ and Ziggler and how they look after each other. I hope they never break up and feud someday.

[cm funk]

The Del Rio/Ziggler double turn was great stuff, and it felt natural. It's rare they book that way.

[MikeCampbell]

Did anyone else find all the head shots to Ziggler to be unnerving? Between that match and the way he bumps in general, I really felt like he was taking a few years off his career.

[Corona]

I only saw the last few minutes of Jericho v. Punk. Seemed decent, but hardly anything in the universe of MOTY. But it had some back and fourth and a hot crowd and that's basically Meltzer's thing.

 

I enjoyed the tag. Thought it was a good match. But wasn't overwhelmed by it or anything.

 

 

Any other matches you haven't seen that you'd like to pass comment on?

[Grimmas]

Did anyone else find all the head shots to Ziggler to be unnerving? Between that match and the way he bumps in general, I really felt like he was taking a few years off his career.

I was kind of uncomfortable with the whole story of that match.

[Dylan Waco]

I only saw the last few minutes of Jericho v. Punk. Seemed decent, but hardly anything in the universe of MOTY. But it had some back and fourth and a hot crowd and that's basically Meltzer's thing.

 

I enjoyed the tag. Thought it was a good match. But wasn't overwhelmed by it or anything.

 

 

Any other matches you haven't seen that you'd like to pass comment on?

 

Sure, your ability to troll in a shitty fashion v. my ability to give a fuck, was a pretty weak addition to the card.

[Badlittlekitten]

Just gonna spam my thoughts from another forum cos i'm lazy like that . . .

 

PPV of the year for me. Excellent stuff.

 

Negative nancy ting . .

Bullies come out on top. Sheamus and AJ winning sticks my craw a bit. The post match sympathy exit for Kaitlyn was bloody uncomfortable to watch. The commentary during the diva's match was deplorable, the King especially, god bless him. He made up for it a bit by complementing Ambrose and his brilliant, beautiful face though.

Didn't like the finish of the US title match, Kane doesn't need protecting especially if the Hell NO/Shield feud is over.

I'm still gonna moan about Bryan beating the Shield on a random Smackdown. Not even a fucking video package, already forgotten.

 

But, yeah, it was great otherwise. Dolph/Del Rio, AJ/Kaitlyn and Punk/Y2J weren't the best matches ever but the drama was incredible. The double turn was executed perfectly. Loved the way the commentators slowly turned against Del Rios tactics. Loved Alberto disrespectfully kicking the Diva's title across the floor before it was clear that he'd fully turned. I tried to reason it as being an accident but it clearly wasn't and I really hated the fucker for that. A great little touch. Looking forward to see how Dolph is as a face, hopefully my dream of turning his little faction face comes true as well. Only snag is Alberto's much better at wrestling face.

 

Axel looked proper for the first time winning the belt, good for him. It'd be a shame if Orton goes heel. Randy as a fired up baby tag wrestler is the most I've ever enjoyed him. Him and Sheamus as a proper team would be awesome. It was cool to see Rollins hit his finisher(?) for once, the curb stomp thing is a brilliant little move and right up the Shields alley. The main was far better than expected, very enjoyable for the most part. Ryback ("It only gets worse from here!") and his power spots were impressive and Cena taking to the air was quality. You gotta laugh at Ryback though, poor fucker.

[Mando]

I'm a little late to the party (after the dismal UFC on Sat. night took me a couple days to get to the WWE PPV). I posted a full review I linked below. In general, thought it was a fairly solid, entertaining show, in the "B" range, thought most stuff was in the least good, was slightly disappointed in Punk/Jericho and for a big Cena fan I thought the main was absolute rubbish.

 

http://neverhandover.blogspot.com/2013/06/...payback-13.html