WELCOME TO RAW IS...Oh, sorry habit, TALK IS JERRRIIICHO!

[Ricky Jackson]

I agree. There are probably more in depth interviews with the Destroyer out there (?), but having never heard the man interviewed before I was more forgiving of Jericho's shortcomings as a researcher

[WingedEagle]

Not to throw cold water on it, but I didn't find the Destroyer interview all that terrific. There were more than a couple occasions (unfortunately escaping me at the moment) where Jericho let go some blatant exaggerations. While I understand that to an extent, it made me wonder about the accuracy of the other points and stories that I'm not familiar with. Very fun listen but I think it would've benefited from a tighter focus.

[NickH]

I think for a 87 year old, I thought Destroyer was really good. It took a while to get used to his raspy voice but after 5 minutes the interview was great. There were a few exaggerations like the Superbowl being watched by 30 million but I think Jericho was just being nice and keeping the interview moving forward.

 

I like that Jericho is really making an effort getting these legends from the 60s and 70s on. First Bruno now Destroyer, I wonder who's next or maybe... who's left? Still waiting for someone to interview Taker.

[BigBadMick]

I just encountered this

 

http://www.podcasts.com/japanese-wrestling-classics-with-roy-lucier-57ac2f511/episode/Japanese-Wrestling-Classics-with-Roy-Lucier-Episode-4-With-Kurt-Beyer-8982

 

Might be just the ticket.

[BigBadMick]

There was a cool little story with Lance Storm on Keller's show a few week's ago. Storm talked about how well-informed and up to date Jericho is when interviewing non-wrestling guests, but the he (Storm) and other wrestlers were startled at how many well known stories from within the business came as a surprise to Jericho when talking with wrestlers.

[Johnny Sorrow]

New show is Sami and Owens and its fantastic. I could listen to these three talk wrestling for hours.

[peachchaos]

So this week Jericho devotes an entire episode to a Flat Earth theorist.

 

Well okay then.

[SomethingSavage]

I loved all the conspiracy theory and true crime episodes, so I'll likely give it a shot eventually. Should be pretty 'nanners, but could be a refreshing change of pace.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Flip Gordon?

[Shrike02]

The Bruno Sammartino episode Jericho did a few months ago is a great listen.

[SomethingSavage]

Never get tired of hearing Bruno tell his story. His childhood and then his early upbringing in the States is forever fascinating. And I especially enjoy the way he describes his discovery of bodybuilding and nutrition. It all comes together wonderfully and creates this coming-of-age tale.

 

Bruno's story is actually so good that I always recommend people to check out his RF shoot interview, because it's a lengthy deep dive that provides a lot of details. And I could probably count on one hand the number of RF shoots I'd recommend.

[SomethingSavage]

Still going back and filling in the gaps by listening to older episodes I originally missed or skipped, and I gave the Jinder Mahal show a listen. It's a year+ old, from right before the time he beat Orton for the belt.

 

It's a genuinely enjoyable listen. The conversation is fun, and it all moves along at a quick pace. Jinder seems totally grateful for his renewed opportunities, and his whole story in general packs a good message at its core.

 

The Great Khali talk is the best though. I love the idea of Khali being something like India's answer to Carlos Colon, fending off this factory of invading foreign challengers or some shit. It's a shame that wrestling events are instruments for political machinations & whatnot in some of these countries, as opposed to just a sporting event or a concert. Mahal makes it sound like there are a bunch of hoops & hurdles to get those shows organized and done, making them increasingly less frequent.

 

There's also something really fun and fascinating about those kinds of crowds - a gathering of people, who still buy in and believe to such a degree that they are there to see one guy win. Above everything else.

 

Just how accurate are Jinder's claims about attendance for these events? I *know* i remember reading discussion about a Khali event or two doing some astronomically large number a year or two back.

 

It's such a fun and fascinating topic to think about - Khali having his own wrestling kingdom of sorts in this day & age. I'm not even sure if that's still a thing here & now - just one year later - but it's definitely the thing that stood out to me most coming away from this show.

[SomethingSavage]

So I randomly picked the Cody Rhodes episode on my drive to work today. Not a lot of noteworthy stuff, but Cody does mention how he picked up a habit from John Cena. Apparently Cena has always had this obsession with knowing the numbers - gates, ticket sales, merch numbers, etc. - for the shows. That's not exactly a shocking tidbit or anything, but it's cool that it kind of stuck with Cody, who is clearly driven by that sort of stuff even now.

 

As a sidebar, it was interesting to find out Cody and Ted Jr. were Cena's last riding partners (right before he bought the bus).

 

Jericho then chimed in to add that Cena used to keep strange company on the road, back in his early days. Apparently Cena's early travel buddies consisted of Tajiri, Funaki, Ultimo, and eventually Super Crazy.

 

Maybe I'm just more interested by the little things than most, but come on. How fucking cool is that?!

[SomethingSavage]

Still scrolling back and finding old shows I missed to keep me busy (and awake!) on my drives to & from work for these long shifts. And I'm still getting a kick out of the littlest things that come out through these conversations.

 

... Like hearing how Fandango's favorite wrestling was late 90s/early 2000s Memphis Power Pro.

[MoS]

Still going back and filling in the gaps by listening to older episodes I originally missed or skipped, and I gave the Jinder Mahal show a listen. It's a year+ old, from right before the time he beat Orton for the belt.

 

It's a genuinely enjoyable listen. The conversation is fun, and it all moves along at a quick pace. Jinder seems totally grateful for his renewed opportunities, and his whole story in general packs a good message at its core.

 

The Great Khali talk is the best though. I love the idea of Khali being something like India's answer to Carlos Colon, fending off this factory of invading foreign challengers or some shit. It's a shame that wrestling events are instruments for political machinations & whatnot in some of these countries, as opposed to just a sporting event or a concert. Mahal makes it sound like there are a bunch of hoops & hurdles to get those shows organized and done, making them increasingly less frequent.

 

There's also something really fun and fascinating about those kinds of crowds - a gathering of people, who still buy in and believe to such a degree that they are there to see one guy win. Above everything else.

 

Just how accurate are Jinder's claims about attendance for these events? I *know* i remember reading discussion about a Khali event or two doing some astronomically large number a year or two back.

 

It's such a fun and fascinating topic to think about - Khali having his own wrestling kingdom of sorts in this day & age. I'm not even sure if that's still a thing here & now - just one year later - but it's definitely the thing that stood out to me most coming away from this show.

 

Khali's school/promotion is still around and doing well, but it is not that famous. I have heard of the number he did as well, and I do not know how worked it is, but it is not something most of the country knows.

 

I have not listened to the podcast, but some of Jinder's claims seem to be exaggerated. Yes, there is red tape involved in renting arenas and doing shows, and there is probably more red tape here than in the US, perhaps for no other reason than the fact that Vince knows most people who are in charge there, but it is not significantly more difficult. Also, India does not use pro wrestling for political ends. The current Prime Minister did use a Coldplay concert once for political points, which is probably stupider, but not pro wrestling. Most famous and legendary global acts have toured India in the last few years, so perhaps it was hugely difficult to book arenas before, with a lot of loops to jump through, but I really doubt that is the case now.

 

The Indian crowd is definitely more casual and "willing to believe" than the casual American fanbase. I have never attended a Khali show, but I would not be surprised at all if all of them were there just to see him, and to see him victorious. He really became something of a pop-culture phenomenon here.

[SomethingSavage]

First of all, thanks a truckload for the detailed response there. Much appreciated.

 

 

The Indian crowd is definitely more casual and "willing to believe" than the casual American fanbase. I have never attended a Khali show, but I would not be surprised at all if all of them were there just to see him, and to see him victorious. He really became something of a pop-culture phenomenon here.

 

That's pretty much how Jinder describes it - like it's Khali's celebrity selling the entire show. The idea of a singular entity being responsible for drawing such a house is just still really cool to me, especially when it can exist in contemporary pro wrestling.

 

Regarding the political stuff - to be fair, Jinder barely touched on the subject. Off the top of my head, I only remember him talking about the PM building (or renovating & reopening?) two large venues and basically needing a big event to sell them out for their first dates. For one location, he chose Khali's wrestling show.

 

It seemed to be Jinder's way of stating how revered Khali is (again), as well as further illustrating how special circumstances or permission is required to get such an event booked.

[MoS]

Yeah, Khali would definitely be able to single-handedly draw such big houses on his own. People have not heard of his school or his promotion, but they have definitely heard of him, and he is definitely a draw here. It is why I thought WWE missed a trick by not booking him especially for their Indian event last year. Even with the obscenely prized tickets, he would probably have sold out the arena, even if it was just as Jinder's manager. As it is, the WWE name is so hot here they managed to almost sell out a near-35,000 seat arena with massive ticket prizes, and presumably made a lot of money, so I am sure they are not regretting it, but he would have certainly helped.

 

One of the reasons Khali became so huge in India was that for the longest time, the wrestler who was by far the most popular in India was The Undertaker. He was the kind of wrestler my mom had heard of when I was a kid, and she had never watched a second of wrestling in her life. He was so huge that in a mainstream Bollywood movie in the mid-90s, they literally stole his character, including the name and the gimmick, for a supporting villain role.

 

(This is part of the opening scene of the movie. Poor Crush was not even credited. Vince probably does not know of this otherwise he would have surely sued the makers for this blatant breach of copyright.)

 

Khali debuted and was immediately put in a program with Taker. Not only that, but he was booked as an unstoppable monster who got the better of Undertaker multiple times in the build-up, and in their match, he completely squashed Taker. That was one of the strongest ways they could have introduced a character back then. I remember being stunned by how strongly they booked him against Taker. Very soon, he dominantly won a battle royal and had a cup of coffee with the SD world title. That was enough to make him a permanent star in India and that is why I will forever defend that booking, even though it was criticised severely at that time. India does not have PPVs, and for the most part, we do not have a culture of people going to bars or pubs and watching wrestling or boxing or MMA, or anything at all except perhaps cricket. But clearly the ratings must have been excellent, because their TV rights deals here kept getting exponentially better, and now India is their 3rd biggest market after the USA and England, despite having much less disposable income.

 

Regarding what Jinder said about the political stuff, it very well might have happened, although honestly I do not know for sure. Khali has met the PM (he is a big enough celebrity to meet the Prime Minister for stuff like this, that really tells you something) and might have asked him to let his show happen in the arena in its first few dates. The PM was probably happy to do so because wrestling is really popular in India, Khali is also really famous and a known celebrity, and unlike the USA, there is no stigma attached to wrestling as such; it is considered harmless fun. Supporting it would have probably got the PM easy political points because no one would oppose it and wrestling fans would be happy. By using the Coldplay concert for political ends, I meant the PM had, as a suprise, literally appeared on the stage via satellite when Coldplay were doing a concert here, a few days after he had announced a controversial new policy about demonetisation. https://scroll.in/video/822001/watch-narendra-modi-beams-himself-into-coldplay-concert-and-jokes-about-demonetisation I cannot imagine them doing that with pro wrestling, but what you said about choosing Khali's show to sell out the first few dates of a new arena is very plausible.

 

Thanks for summarising Jinder's appearance on the podcast! It was a very interesting read for me.

[SomethingSavage]

No problem, man. I certainly appreciate the in-depth responses from your end. Very cool & fascinating stuff to me.

 

SOOOO glad you brought up The Undertaker story! Jinder actually lays out that same scenario in the interview. (Can't believe I forgot to mention it in hindsight.)

 

But yeah. He mentions the Bollywood deal and the connection that led to Khali becoming such a huge mainstream star, thanks to the program with Taker, right away. The way Jinder tells it - Taker has taken on this almost mythical role within Indian culture. He presents it as something similar to the way kids are told about the Boogeyman or even the recent Slenderman phenomenon. Truly awesome stuff.

Beyond that, Mahal pretty much says that it'd be difficult to find anyone in India that didn't have some idea of who Khali is. He even says - when you break it down to numbers - Khali may be the single most recognizable wrestler on the planet today (exaggeration? I don't know). Jinder says the few people who wouldn't know him directly & immediately from wrestling would certainly recognize him from his movies - the Longest Yard, etc.

Anyhow, thanks again for the replies. This is what I loved so much about sinking my teeth into the Puerto Rico wrestling scene for the very first time all over again. There's something incredibly appealing about seeing something you enjoy presented in other cultures & discovering all the details that entails.

[MoS]

I swear I am not making this up - when I was a kid, my mom once told me to go to sleep else "The Undertaker will come". When I asked her who Taker was, she said, "A very bad man with long hair."

 

He had turned face a long time by then but I am guessing his initial image of undead heel zombie lasted for a long time. But yes, he has been enormously popular as a mythical, almost supernatural figure for decades now.

[SomethingSavage]

That's awesome. Can't help but wonder what the catalyst was for that. I mean, it's kind of crazy to imagine a wrestling character transcending so much and embedding itself so deep into a culture that way. Just wild.

 

I *did* decide to do a little digging into Khali's promotion and some of its results over the past few years. There's no real way to confirm exact numbers or anything, but there's footage and photos to see. And it all looks really impressive and a bit awe-inspiring. Very cool stuff, to be honest.

 

The show Jinder was speaking about on the podcast (from last Spring) involved the stretcher job angle and Khali's eventual rematch for revenge at the following event.

 

And now it looks like Khali's gearing up for another round of shows. The last one was back in February - with the claimed house being around 35,000 - and his next two are set to take place on June 29th in Mandi and then on July 7th in Solan.

 

I never intended to turn this Talk is Jericho thread into a Festival of Khali Appreciation or anything, but fuck it. Khali is drawing huge houses, headlining with the likes of Crimson, Brody Steele, Mike Knox, and others. He really *is* the Carlos Colon of India in some ways. I'm fascinated by all this at the moment.

[Johnny Sorrow]

That's awesome. I love that. By all accounts, Khali is a cool dude. Good for him to be successful and getting paydays for Mike Knox. Cause Mike Knox rules.

[PhilTLL]

Apparently the latest episode is Jericho one-on-one with Derek Smalls of Spinal Tap. That's pretty amazing. I'll probably seek it out for once.

[SomethingSavage]

Still going back and listening to some shows I've missed over the years. This week, I chose a handful of Jericho's shows to get me through my drives to & from work.

 

A recurring theme in a lot of conversations is the idea of Vince behaving like this big, overgrown frat boy backstage. It's childish, of course. But it's also really cool to hear. Vince just purposely bumping into guys in hallways - shoulder blocking them, sneaking up on them and whispering in their ears, etc. is just plain fun to think about.

Vince emasculating guys is something you hear quite a bit about, too. In this day & age of snowflakes, precious feelings, and everyone loving to feel outraged about ANYTHING at a moment's notice - I can see how that might bother some people or whatever. Still, hearing the story of Vince constantly teasing Johnny Ace about his horrible hair and his frosted tips when Laurinaitis first came on board was tremendous.

 

I love listening to Jericho talk about the little things in his dealings with Vince the most though. You get the sense that they really have a unique relationship, and it's something Jericho seems particularly proud of as well. You hear Austin mention A LOT on his show that it's absolutely vital for top talent to develop a relationship with Vince, and Jericho reiterates that by outright pointing to it as something that helped to turn his career around. Jericho offering insight about Vince's approach to motivating guys is fascinating, too. "Look, that was good. God damn it, that was good. But you're not as good as you think you are. What if we tried this..."

 

Good stuff.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

It's why Jericho's most likely not going to work NJPW shows in the States.

[SomethingSavage]

^^ I figured part of the reasoning behind putting the IC Title on him was for the US dates.

 

The Alexa Bliss episode was the next random show I pulled up for my commute, and I honestly wasn't expecting to get much out of it. It was definitely one of the weaker episodes overall, but the conversation was breezy and engaging enough. There was the usual praise for Dusty, Terry Taylor, etc. But then there were a couple of interesting bits beyond that, too

 

I remember when Alexa first stormed onto SmackDown, there were tons of memes and gifs springing up with her vast array of reactions & facial expressions. Then, suddenly, that just stopped. She explains that Vince approached her backstage after the move to Raw and asked her to dial down the outrageous, over-the-top expressions. Vince apparently told her it was "too much." I found that surprising, since it seems like something Vince would love.

 

I was also slightly curious to see (hear?) how they'd approach her eating disorder, if at all. Of course it didn't come up, and it's not like I was bothered by it or anything. Jericho likely knew nothing about it (admitting this was the first time he'd spoke to Bliss at length), and Alexa only mentions it in passing - talking about how she weighed 96 pounds on her first day at the PC, when she was told she'd need to gain some weight before they allowed her to workout & bump in the ring.

 

Anyway, it was a decent listen overall. Not one worth seeking out or anything, but it's not like I felt like i wasted my time either. Alexa has a bubbly personality throughout, and her enthusiasm when discussing horror movie monsters is infectious as fuck.