NintendoLogic Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Where are the numbers to show that Roman Reigns isn't just someone people are popping for, thus making him worthy of a push? What about Bray Wyatt? If this board had likes, I would register a million socko accounts so I could like this a million times. It's the self-fulfilling prophecy at work. They've decided that they want Reigns to be a top guy, so he's pushed and protected until he's over enough to justify the push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 It's in Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbaugh Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Part of me thinks the WWE really does hate their fans right now. They're trying to pfeush back mainstream for the Network launch and Mania XXX and they've got bizarro Canada crowds in every city cheering for some unmarketable goofball and trying to make the show about them instead of about the product they're trying to present. I could absolutely see them seeing it like that. Is Raw in Philly tomorrow? That'd be great. Ask anyone who has spent any time in a creative field and they will all hate their hardcore fans. I spent ten years as on on-air radio DJ and I can attest to this. You want people to like what you are doing, but if they aren't responding to what you want it turns to resentment real quick. You then want to make them suffer for daring to not eat what you are feeding them. The WWE is purposefully doing this, and the writers are taking delight in laughing at the complaints. My fellow DJs used to do it all the time -- someone would call up and complain about us playing too much Journey so we'd immediately blast "Separate Ways". I've never been surprised when they pull this shit. That being said, I was in attendance tonight and it was the hottest crowd I've ever been a part of. Orton vs. Cena was such a weird experience, and I felt really bad for Rey Rey as people were furious at that shit. I don't know if it made air, but Dave did a great job going heel on his way out and looked like he hasn't lost that part of what made him so over. Great night in terms of the crowd, but a total letdown of a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm hesitant to bring this up but does anyone else think a fan or an audience might do something drastic here? I mean I know it's not 1972 where heels are going to be stabbed but these crowds are going to be pissed. I know I'm probably way off here but the thought has crossed my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 It's not about hardcore fans, though. Hardcore fans are the guys who bitch on pro wrestling boards. That's who they think the hardcore fans are. These are actual paying customers coming to the show to see someone and then being pissed when they didn't get what they wanted. Like I said before, this is all about money. With the Network coming out, Batista's ratings boost (even as a small sample) raised ratings enough that they could command a bit more in advertising whereas Bryan doesn't bring in as much. So they have Bryan play up the "Him vs. The Machine" storyline while he's doing his public stuff to keep up the gag. It's not rocket science. Austin got a hell of a reaction and had the promo of his life, but it was only when he had the Austin 3:16 shirt made that he was pushed to the moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Where are the numbers to show that Roman Reigns isn't just someone people are popping for, thus making him worthy of a push? What about Bray Wyatt?My point exactly. About RR specifically though, people were popping for Reigns simply because they wanted to see DBryan and not Batista win. Like I said before, you could've stuck anyone in there as a final participant against Batista and they still would've popped for whoever it was. They just wanted to see DBryan participate that's why they booed Rey Mysterio coming out as #30 instead of him and cheered for Batista since he came in before #30 and booed him afterwards once the last entrant had already entered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbaugh Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm hesitant to bring this up but does anyone else think a fan or an audience might do something drastic here? I mean I know it's not 1972 where heels are going to be stabbed but if these crowds are going to be pissed. I know I'm probably way off here but the thought has crossed my mind At the end of the show a guy in fatigues and the haircut of a crazy person ran down to the barricade next to me and held up a sign that said "If Batista Wins We Riot". It was upside down and everybody pulled out their cell phones to take a picture of the weirdo. I doubt anyone would do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 if they are so pissed off at their fans why did they encourage the YES chants just two weeks ago? To further fuck with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm guessing the WWE and (insert major political party) have similar impressions about their hardcore fans/base. They can be annoyed at the hardcores, but they know the hardcores will spend their last 20 dollars on their side even if they hold their nose. The same can be true of any field where popularity is an element of the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 That, plus they know there's a line they can continue to push because people are wanting Bryan to win, so they can keep getting them out there, even if they shit on the product. They'll keep trolling, throwing the bait, hoping they bite. Still getting that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Is Raw in Philly tomorrow? That'd be great. Cleveland. But Extreme Rules is in.....SEATTLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Starrcade 97 called. Eventually that approach will bite on on the ass. I have never watched UFC but at this point I'd try a product where there's a chance I will get a result I want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 another aspect that crossed my mind was that Bryan has no one fighting for him backstage. Steamboat had George Scott. Bret had Pat Patterson. Austin had Jim Ross (not that he needed him after 1998). Bryan has no one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbaugh Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm sitting in a bar with a bunch of people who flew to Pittsburgh and are staying at a fancy hotel to see WWE. Everybody is talking about what tonight means for Wrestlemania. Sure, this is just anecdotal evidence, but these people are the people WWE consider "hardcore" fans. They were shit on (most of them have Daniel Bryan shirts and three of them have fake beards), yet they can't stop taking about what is next. This is why things like tonight happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I have never watched UFC but at this point I'd try a product where there's a chance I will get a result I want.UFC's not the place to start watching right now then since the guys you'll most likely want to win are either out or on their way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The downside of being a product of WWE developmental is the complete inability to work a crowd when things go off the rails. Orton/Sheamus from RAW several months back. Orton/Cena tonight. Kofi/Rusev on NXT. Batista/Show in Hammerstein on ECW in 2006. I can go on and on. Five of those six guys know virtually nothing aside from what WWE taught them. Orton in particular is like a deer in the headlights when things don't go as planned. He froze tonight until they hit the closing stretch that they've been rehearsing on the house show swing. Visibly lost his temper. Same as the Sheamus match. They refine these guys and teach them the basics and all of the little things very well, but the one major weakness is that they don't work in front of real crowds and get that veteran seasoning. They know one style. And when they get lost, they stay lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yeah but Steamboat's biggest story and push came after Scott got canned. There's no one left in WWE Vince listens to other than HHH who is a virtual clone of his views and foibles. HHH is as big a bodybuilding mark as Vince is. Cena's opinions are tolerated I'm sure but he has less impact on the product than any tippy top guy I can think of...pretty much ever. Except maybe Yokozuna if you want to stretch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The downside of being a product of WWE developmental is the complete inability to work a crowd when things go off the rails. Orton/Sheamus from RAW several months back. Orton/Cena tonight. Kofi/Rusev on NXT. Batista/Show in Hammerstein on ECW in 2006. I can go on and on. Five of those six guys know virtually nothing aside from what WWE taught them. when was the golden era of people working a crowd back into a match? Just curious there. Seems like that's a point you'd want to avoid and if you get there, you're not getting out alive anyways. I seem to recall that Lex Luger and Barry Windham had some problems when things went off the rails. And I'd guess when things go off the rails, they're not getting back on the rails all that easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I wouldn't say there was an era for it. Pick a time frame where a good number of stars worked in many territories with completely different styles and you will have your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Just got back from a big party with a Rumble pool, and had a blast, ending aside. My thoughts: I don't hate the idea of taking the belts off of Goldust/Cody and here's way. I believe it was Will who mentioned that while all the Rhodes' tags were phenominal matches, they were lacking heat. The crowd was reacting to the fact that they were seeing great matches, but there was nothing visceral behind it. Their current tag division can get more mileage from heel champs, there's a few solid face teams that could chase the belts. Plus, Rhodes-Dust had a great run, I don't see it as getting their run cut short, it lasted it's natural lifespan. That Lesnar/Big Show match was certainly odd, wasn't it? I'm not sure if that was intentionally what they were going for, neither Brock or Show has an unprofessional reputation in ring. Big Show looked visibly annoyed during a couple of those camera shots where he should have been selling. He had this look on his face like "are you F'in kidding me?" And he said a couple things that were bleep-worthy. Are they trying to portray Brock as a guy who's so REAL he goes against the script? Was it a worked shoot? I respect you.... Lesnar man? Nothing I will add to what's already been said about Orton vs. Cena, however I found it unintentionally hilarious that Orton's "modified" STF incorporated a chinlock. That Rumble ending, my god. I need to add, Batista had horrible ring attire. Something about him I can't quite put my finger on, he doesn't look like the same guy. Not the obvious physique difference, even his face is different. I think it's a little unfair to Reigns to say the only reason people were cheering for him was because they didn't want Batista. I'm of the opinion that they could have made Reigns tonight. The guy eliminated nearly half the Rumble. If this was anytime before 2008-ish, I think they would have risked it with Reigns. He worked hard all year, he's over, he's not stale, and he is believable. Winning the Rumble would have been a great holy shit moment. I would have liked to see Rusev dominate a little bit more, but I like debuting monsters in the Rumble. They need to do this more instead of using the Rumble for comedy spots. I don't watch much NXT, is this guy the real deal? Brodus Clay is newly turned heel and doesn't even get a spot? Might not want to answer your phone around spring cleaning time Brodus... That Curt Hawkins sign got more screen time tonight than Curt Hawkins himself has had in the past four years. WWE is trolling us. There's no way anybody in that company could have expected anything except that reaction to Batista winning. They HAVE to acknowledge this on Raw. No way Batista comes out and gives a "thank you for still believing in me promo" on Raw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The downside of being a product of WWE developmental is the complete inability to work a crowd when things go off the rails. Orton/Sheamus from RAW several months back. Orton/Cena tonight. Kofi/Rusev on NXT. Batista/Show in Hammerstein on ECW in 2006. I can go on and on. Five of those six guys know virtually nothing aside from what WWE taught them. when was the golden era of people working a crowd back into a match? Just curious there. Seems like that's a point you'd want to avoid and if you get there, you're not getting out alive anyways. I seem to recall that Lex Luger and Barry Windham had some problems when things went off the rails. And I'd guess when things go off the rails, they're not getting back on the rails all that easily. Ended about the same time that Weather Dominator thing didn't pan out Commander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 I think you can take back a bored crowd, but it is really hard to win back a really pissed off crowd. Of course the real interesting element to watch here that is different is that in the old days if people were pissed they either quit buying tickets or would walk out on shows that pissed them off. Now the booing the stars on behalf of Bryan thing has become almost as much a part of the show as booing Cena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbaugh Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The only thing that brought the crowd back from doing the wave and chanting for Divas matches was the trading of the other guy's finishers (which live came off really well) and then the Wyatt interference (which just made the crowd think Bryan was going to come out to counter Wyatt). It wasn't that John fucking Cena of all people doesn't know how to work -- the audience didn't want to see him in that spot tonight and nothing he was going to do with Orton would have saved it from an occasional pop at best. If the only way to bring the crowd back is through extreme measures like that (which were obviously planned because they knew people would be shitting on the match), then I don't think anyone on the roster could have salvaged things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 WWE is trolling us. There's no way anybody in that company could have expected anything except that reaction to Batista winning. They HAVE to acknowledge this on Raw. No way Batista comes out and gives a "thank you for still believing in me promo" on Raw. I don't think they're trolling. I think they are completely tone deaf and lack self awareness. They wouldn't intentionally sabotage Sheamus, Langston, Batista, and Mysterio. They thought that match layout would work. And they likely won't concede that it didn't. They'll likely blame a rebel crowd. The old "vocal minority". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W2BTD Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 The only thing that brought the crowd back from doing the wave and chanting for Divas matches was the trading of the other guy's finishers (which live came off really well) and then the Wyatt interference (which just made the crowd think Bryan was going to come out to counter Wyatt). It wasn't that John fucking Cena of all people doesn't know how to work -- the audience didn't want to see him in that spot tonight and nothing he was going to do with Orton would have saved it from an occasional pop at best. If the only way to bring the crowd back is through extreme measures like that (which were obviously planned because they knew people would be shitting on the match), then I don't think anyone on the roster could have salvaged things. I was being critical of Orton more than Cena. It happens to Orton fairly often. And he pouts about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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