puropotsy Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 On Episode 56 of The Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and I ask who could have been made WWWF Champion other than Bob Backlund in 1978. Please give it a listen to hear two guys playing make-believe and taking it all too seriously. http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkCast.jsp?masterId=112658&cmd=tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 And also on PTBN: In the newest episode of the Wrestling Culture podcast, Dylan and Dave discuss who other than Bob Backlund could have been WWWF champ in 1978: http://placetobenation.com/wrestling-culture-podcast-56-bob-backlund-and-the-wwwf-in-1978/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 More excited about this than I care to admit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Regarding Ken Patera, he made his televised debut in the WWWF on October 26th, 1976, only six weeks before Bob Backlund did, so the issue of the previous heel run could have been removed by bringing him in straight as a babyface and doing the same 15-18 month build to him winning the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Very good point that I should have noted. Having said that he was brought in specifically because of the fact that he had heated up as a great heel for McGuirk opposite Bill Watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I enjoyed this show quite a bit, even with Dylan or Dave munching his crisps or whatever off mic -- at least it's not Will eating pizza! Something I forgot to mention about DiBiase on Steven's show, and it wasn't mentioned again here, was that in 1978 he won the NWA Missouri title, which was something of a stepping stone to the NWA World title. Here are the other guys who held that belt: Johnny Valentine 1 January 19, 1973 St. Louis, Missouri Defeated Harley Race in a rematch. Terry Funk 1 February 10, 1973 St. Louis, Missouri Gene Kiniski 1 March 16, 1973 St. Louis, Missouri Harley Race 2 October 13, 1973 St. Louis, Missouri Dory Funk, Jr. 1 May 24, 1974 St. Louis, Missouri Harley Race 3 February 21, 1975 St. Louis, Missouri Bob Backlund 1 April 23, 1976 St. Louis, Missouri Jack Brisco 1 November 26, 1976 St. Louis, Missouri Dick Slater 1 August 12, 1977 St. Louis, Missouri Ted DiBiase 1 February 12, 1978 St. Louis, Missouri Dick Murdoch 1 February 26, 1978 St. Louis, Missouri Dick the Bruiser 1 July 14, 1978 St. Louis, Missouri Dick Murdoch 2 March 17, 1979 St. Louis, Missouri Dick the Bruiser 2 May 18, 1979 St. Louis, Missouri Dick Murdoch 3 July 13, 1979 St. Louis, Missouri Kevin Von Erich 1 November 23, 1979 St. Louis, Missouri Ken Patera 1 April 25, 1980 St. Louis, Missouri Ted DiBiase 2 November 21, 1980 St. Louis, Missouri Jack Brisco 2 October 2, 1981 St. Louis, Missouri Ken Patera 2 October 23, 1981 St. Louis, Missouri Dick the Bruiser 3 January 1, 1982 St. Louis, Missouri Harley Race 4 September 17, 1982 St. Louis, Missouri Kerry Von Erich 1 January 23, 1983 St. Louis, Missouri Jerry Blackwell 1 April 15, 1983 St. Louis, Missouri Harley Race As such, this title was pretty exalted and prestigious -- pretty much a "who's who" of made men, and you'll notice that Backlund himself had a run with it in 76. So two points: 1. If we are to believe the hype around St. Louis being such an important town and the Missouri title being seen by the promoters as quite a major deal (after all, it was under Muchnick's direct control), then Backlund wasn't SUCH a left-field choice as you guys made out on this show. Backlund wasn't a complete unknown quantity and the fact he held that title would have been a major plus in Vince Sr's mind. I know on Titans, the other guys play up the Eddie Graham-Vince Sr connection more -- hence the Keirn talking point -- but I am still convinced that while Vince Sr. was closer friends with Eddie Graham than with Muchnick, his respect levels for Muchnick would have been through the roof and for Sam to show Backlund that sort of trust would have been like a virtual seal of approval. 2. All of the above would have gone for Ted too, although Dave's point about him being too young is ultimately right. Ted in 78 was more like Backlund in 76, and you can see that in the grid above. Which brings up a third point: 3. What about Dick Slater? Too southern for WWF? He held that Missouri title and was thought of very highly in the business. He was just that bit older than Ted too, so about perfect age-wise. ----------- One more thing, do you REALLY think Martel's accent would have been a problem in the territory that had had Bruno, Pedro and Ivan Koloff as champs in the past decade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Great show guys! Look forward to other "if not, then who" installments. What do you guys think of Carlos Colon as a possibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Colon could have done it from a match quality perspective. Of that I'm sure. But they weren't going to do Morales 2.0. To Jerry's point Backlund winning the Missouri Title is relevant and probably should have been mentioned BUT if you are being realistic there were literally dozens of guys in the U.S. who were bigger stars than him at the time. Slater probably should have been discussed on the show. I think he was already getting something of a rep as a crazy, but he deserved discussion. Also worth noting that Senior was very close to both Graham and Muchnick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Also on Martel I think his accent/ethnicity did not appeal to an existing ethnic base in the area. That combined with his age would have hurt him I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I've been thinking about Backlund quite a bit recently and just how odd he seems when you look at the history of wrestling in that time frame. He ALMOST feels like a weird Muchnick-Vince Sr. pet project a la Trading Places. Muchnick: Vinnie, I'm going to make that goofy kid a star. Vince Sr: One dollar you can't do it. You try first, and if you fail, then it's my turn. Muchnick: Okay, you're on! --------- I'm not even kidding, it's just so weird when you think about it. Why would Vince Sr go with him out of all the guys available unless he was trying to prove some weird point or settle a bet? What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 The SHOOTs answer is that he was easy to control and that's what Vince Sr wanted after Bruno/Superstar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I've been thinking about Backlund quite a bit recently and just how odd he seems when you look at the history of wrestling in that time frame. He ALMOST feels like a weird Muchnick-Vince Sr. pet project a la Trading Places. Muchnick: Vinnie, I'm going to make that goofy kid a star. Vince Sr: One dollar you can't do it. You try first, and if you fail, then it's my turn. Muchnick: Okay, you're on! --------- I'm not even kidding, it's just so weird when you think about it. Why would Vince Sr go with him out of all the guys available unless he was trying to prove some weird point or settle a bet? What do you think? We talked about that on Titans, lol. Sullivan told the story on Cornettes show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm only up to the Steamboat/Martel talking point. When Steamer worked the Garden with Youngblood they got over huge with no build against Kamata and Brower. The fans would have been receptive to Steamboat as champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I totally agree Pete. I think Steamer would have been huge in NYC as a long-term champ in the late-70s/early-80s. That was the peak era of his drawing power in the Carolinas/Toronto I'm also listening to the show right now and I have to say Dusty would have been a great choice, as he was already a big star in NYC and in his prime IIRC, Vince Sr wanted Jack Brisco when he first envisioned his post-Bruno headliner, or at least the All-American stud athlete type that Brisco represented. Eventually he settled on Backlund as a "top prospect" in much the same way Bruno was in 1963 Superstar Graham/Meltzer tell the story that Vince Sr had already decided Bob was going to be his guy by October 76, when he explained his plan to Graham in Florida, even having the exact date, February 20, 1978, when Bob was going to win the strap already set (Sr believed it would take about a year for Bob to get over at a level where the fans actually wanted him as champ - Bob debuted on WWF TV in March 77) Edit: Just checked, Backlund actually debuted on WWWF TV in December 76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I've been watching some stuff from this era and I thought this was a tremendous topic. Brunzell was a guy I thought of so I was glad to hear his name in the discussion. I also agree that you could get some good TV out of Tony Atlas. Have him accept an arm wrestling contest from Graham. Tony pins Graham's arm down, Graham attacks him from behind and you're off to the races. Curious as to your thoughts on Jimmy Snuka? He's a good cosmetic opposite to Graham and you could get a cool visual of the Superfly Splash winning him the belt that they would replay in highlight packages for years. Was he still in Portland or did he start Mid-Atlantic by this point? I can't for the life of me picture him having anything more than a year on top, but he's still an interesting candidate. Snuka was also 40 when he finally came to NY in 82. People may regard him even higher if he spent more of his physical prime in NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Superstar Graham/Meltzer tell the story that Vince Sr had already decided Bob was going to be his guy by October 76, when he explained his plan to Graham in Florida, even having the exact date, February 20, 1978, when Bob was going to win the strap already set The booking backs that up as Backlund was already being groomed on TV for his eventual title run several months before Graham won the strap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Quick question. Is there a problem with downloading old episodes from itunes or the subscribing process? I tried downloading a few older episodes and it wouldn't work so I unsubscribed then tried to resubscribe and nothing is downloading. So now wrestling culture isn't saved on my itunes. Just thought I'd put it out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I literally have no clue how any of that stuff works. I'm not sure Dave does either. We are the two most technically inept people to ever have a podcast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 It could be something I did on my end, I have no clue. I can manually download them from p2b so its all good. I'm not sure if the old episodes are there though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Try downloading from the bottom of the main talkshoe site also. Maybe they were temporarily down. I did have to originally subscribe to iTunes for the show through this same link (there's an iTunes rss.xml button). Maybe that will work: http://www.talkshoe.com/tc/112658 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 That worked Brad, appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Brunzell is an interesting idea to try to float by. I wonder what his amateur background was since they were looking for a guy in the Jack Brisco vein. The 3 guys that popped into my head at being able to do it were Steamboat, Patterson, or Hansen. I think the only guy their with an amateur background would be Steamer. What was Rotundo doing around this time. A fun premise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Here's my question for Pete and everyone else ... Is Ricky Steamboat, even in 1978, simply better than Backlund in every way conceivable? I've been thinking about this and Steamer had a better look, more obvious charisma, and a much more eye-catching style than Backlund. For fans used to seeing people like Putski and Strongbow plodding about week after week, it's hard not to think that Steamboat wouldn't have completely blown the roof off of MSG every single week. Does Backlund really have any points over Steamboat aside from maybe a year's more experience? Steamboats legit / amatuer credentials could certainly have been played up as much as Bob's were. Steamboat feels like a better candidate for the belt in virttually every regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 To me their are one or 2 things that would have hampered Steamer is he's an amazing seller. The WWE champ style seems to take a lot of the match. That isn't Steamboat's strength. Steamer had a good offense, I think Bob's was more dynamic. The brawls I 've seen Steamer has done fine in. That would be the other thing I'd give Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Also on the show I liked the out of the box thing of Bravo. Though in the end he would have lacked the charisma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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