Things Wrestlers Value that we don't

[BillThompson]

I think that to be a big match worker, you need to be able to craft a satisfying narrative arc, which requires a strong grasp of things like psychology and structure. Regal never really demonstrated that-at least, not until recently.

 

Rewatching a lot of old WCW I find this very much to not be the case. From the moment he starts in WCW Regal gets psychology and structure better than most of the roster. That's why him in throwaway matches with the likes of Iaukea never actually felt like throwaway matches.

 

 

I would take a lot of things over Steamboat/Savage too, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're better than Savage/Steamboat. I can't see how anyone would think Regal/Ohno was a better match than Steamboat/Savage all things considered.

 

Because it is a better match? It's worked better, has a better finish, tells a better in-ring story, etc.

[ohtani's jacket]

I just can't agree. To me that's like arguing something like Tully vs. Terry Taylor is better than Flair/Steamboat.

[Matt D]

Is it the entire point of this site that someone can argue exactly that and if they do it well enough, they will be listened to and respected even if they don't sway you.

[goodhelmet]

No, the point of this site is to talk wrestling the way you choose to talk about it.

[ohtani's jacket]

Is it the entire point of this site that someone can argue exactly that and if they do it well enough, they will be listened to and respected even if they don't sway you.

 

I don't think we quite got to that level.

[Matt D]

 

Is it the entire point of this site that someone can argue exactly that and if they do it well enough, they will be listened to and respected even if they don't sway you.

 

I don't think we quite got to that level.

 

 

Not for lack of trying though!

[JerryvonKramer]

Here's a question: if a wrestler has come right out and said that he got blown up at the start of a match and so sat in a headlock for 25 minutes, do you let that affect your grade for the match? To me, it's an admission that something has gone wrong and that the headlock is literally just killing time.

 

This is the case for Valentine vs. Backlund, hour-long match, in which for the first 30 minutes they literally sit on the mat in a headlock, not moving much. A fucking 25-minute headlock!

 

Both Backlund and Valentine have admitted that this was because Valentine was blown up. How can that not be a huge knock on the match?

 

Yet, various posters here give that shit show five stars. One case where I side with the wrestlers.

[Goodear]

Well it depends on the actual performance of that headlock and if Backlund was able to compensate for his opponent by being active with the hold. To me, the real why of a situation doesn't matter as much if it fits the why of the story being told.

[ohtani's jacket]

Like a Backlund one hour draw wouldn't have had a 25 minute headlock anyway?

[Loss]

Here's a question: if a wrestler has come right out and said that he got blown up at the start of a match and so sat in a headlock for 25 minutes, do you let that affect your grade for the match? To me, it's an admission that something has gone wrong and that the headlock is literally just killing time.

 

This is the case for Valentine vs. Backlund, hour-long match, in which for the first 30 minutes they literally sit on the mat in a headlock, not moving much. A fucking 25-minute headlock!

 

Both Backlund and Valentine have admitted that this was because Valentine was blown up. How can that not be a huge knock on the match?

 

Yet, various posters here give that shit show five stars. One case where I side with the wrestlers.

 

Not necessarily. Sometimes, I suppose. The thing is that wrestlers own the delivery of their match but they don't really own the interpretation of it. It's possible for guys to work holds because they are blown up and still be doing something to move the match forward I would think.

[goodhelmet]

That's a great point. The most famous instance I can recall is the Bret-Bulldog 1992 Summerslam match. When I first watched the match, I had no idea Bulldog was blown up. Didn't really matter to me at all. When I recorded it for the yearbook project, I couldn't help but notice the entire time. Still, it didn't affect my thoughts on the match one way or the other.

[artDDP]

Here's a question: if a wrestler has come right out and said that he got blown up at the start of a match and so sat in a headlock for 25 minutes, do you let that affect your grade for the match? To me, it's an admission that something has gone wrong and that the headlock is literally just killing time.

 

This is the case for Valentine vs. Backlund, hour-long match, in which for the first 30 minutes they literally sit on the mat in a headlock, not moving much. A fucking 25-minute headlock!

 

Both Backlund and Valentine have admitted that this was because Valentine was blown up. How can that not be a huge knock on the match?

 

Yet, various posters here give that shit show five stars. One case where I side with the wrestlers.

Gordon Solie once said of Valentine "this guy doesn't burn a calorie unless he has to".

[thebrainfollower]

Jesse actually said this ONE of the greatest matches I've ever seen. nitpicking yeah.

[Johnny Guitar]

Cardio/physical fitness.

 

Flair and Bret have made up now. Thank god. But even when they where at odds. Bret always put over Flair as the most psychically fit wrestler he'd ever worked with.

[Matt Farmer]

Getting back the original topic, a wrestler will place value on things that a fan won't. And some of those things include how smooth a wrestler is, think a Ray Stevens, Shawn Michaels or Buddy Rose. Where everything looks like it naturally flows from them. If you are their opponent you feel that too, and the difference is mind boggling.

 

Also little things like do you find the wrestler in the right spot (not doing spots in the right place, I mean their timing). Some guys like a Flair, Funk, Steamboat or a Bockwinkel and Stevens are respected for being ring generals. That does not just mean calling a match, but here's an example. Go back and watch the WCW PPV where Flair & AA work Steve McMichael and Kevin Greene. Flair is not only calling all the spots, he is also telling the football players what to do, where to do it and how to do it. As well as lead the referee through the match.

 

Little things stand out to a wrestler that most fans, unless they have done some training will never pick up on.

 

One of the things that I hear from Kurt Angles peers is not only how fast he picked up the work, but how he was able to lead a match. And when a spot is possibly blown recover and move on without any issues. That is one thing I have heard as a knock towards Randy Savage. If a spot was screwed up it would take him out of his game, in today's wrestling world those mistakes would be much more visible. However during Savage's peak period most of his opponents would have been more adapt at working on the fly.

 

A few other things the boys talk about is how clumsy or reckless someone is or is not. Look some guys cannot throw a punch or a forearm or a kick without his opponent worrying if he'll have to check his teeth after the match. Rob Van Dam lost a planned push in WWE because he got the rep for being shitty stiff. By that his kicks and punches looked like shit, but they were still stiff as hell. If got so bad, there was a handful of guys who no longer wanted to work with him. Hey you get hit behind the skull or right on the neck a few times by the same guy, and you will not want to work on the road with him 10 to 15 times a month.

 

If you have been in the ring you'll know the difference between good stiff, and bad stiff. Some guys that work snug like a Fit Finley are awesome! You will fell everything, nothing will hurt (or be hurt) and everything looks good.