Villano III

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Grimmas]

I need as many suggestions for him as possible. I feel he can sky rocket up my list, but I need to watch more to be sure.

[Tim Evans]

The Villano III/Rambo series is pretty good. Especially the 1993 AAA and Early 2000 IWRG matches.

[BillThompson]

His brawl versus Chessman from earlier this year is a prime example of great old man Villano III bleeding and brawling for your enjoyment.

[ohtani's jacket]

That was Villano IV.

[BillThompson]

Ugh, that's right, that's what I get for typing off the top of my head.

[Graham Crackers]

His unmasking is the defining pro wrestling moment for me. He wrestles a classic match, loses, and unmasks revealing this face that is horrible disfigured by pro wrestling.

 

I think not having more footage of him in the 80s is the saddest part about the sparseness of classic lucha footage. I was disappointed by the Perro Aguayo match but he looked out of this world in his other appearances.

[Timbo Slice]

3/17/00 vs. Atlantis is my favorite lucha match of all time, bar none. I know there are probably better matches out there, but it's just incredible on so many levels. Best lucha de apuestra worker ever?

[ohtani's jacket]

More thoughts on Villano III than you can throw a stick at -- http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/blog/8/entry-427-villano-iii/

[elliott]

Who will be the high vote on Villano III? He feels like one of those "should be a top 10 contender but we just don't have the footage" types. Regardless of a lack of prime footage, he's a stone cold lock for my list. But I'm wondering if anyone is going to have him as a top 20ish level guy?

[Matt D]

I have a lot of VIII watching to do still.

[Matt D]

I have Villano III on my list right now, but I'm tempted to go back and omit him. He's one of those frustrating people where I think should be better than I have him, maybe even by 50 slots or more (which is huge), but based just on the footage I've been able to see, is actually too high. There are only a few people on my list like that (Patterson is one, though not as extreme on one and far more extreme on the other; Ladd is another). It feels like a token inclusion right now, or a handicapped best guess.

[WingedEagle]

V3 falls into the pool of luchadores who could place for me with time to dig deeper. One day I'll get to all of those with top flight brawls, but doubtful before deadline.

[Jetlag]

You can actually find quite a bit of Villano III just ctrl+fing through Alfredo's listings, and online aswell. Considering he had that super-classic Atlantis bout in 2000 and still looked sharp until about the mid-2000s, there's probably a lot more quality Villanos stuff buried on various 90s tapes, even if it's just them spin kicking and punching fools while tagging with Psicosis. I know I really really enjoyed the Villanos stuff from Hamada's UWF that I've seen. V3 among others is the type of guy who would benefit alot if someone sat down, went through a bunch of Promo Azteca shows and other stuff and compiled the worthwhile matches into a 10 disc set. Maybe that will have been done in 10 years.

[elliott]

I voted Villano III 66th in 2016 and fucking blew it with that one. Villano III is an awesome pro-wrestler. I feel like if we had more footage from the 80s we'd be looking at him as a top 25 contender and someone who could do it all in the ring. He's someone I'd like to really look at this time around instead of a cursory view I took last time. 

[Grimmas]

1 hour ago, elliott said:

I voted Villano III 66th in 2016 and fucking blew it with that one. Villano III is an awesome pro-wrestler. I feel like if we had more footage from the 80s we'd be looking at him as a top 25 contender and someone who could do it all in the ring. He's someone I'd like to really look at this time around instead of a cursory view I took last time. 

I feel in the exact same boat. Give us recs please!

[cad]

Obviously a talented wrestler capable of having great matches. I gotta say, though, there's a pretty long stretch, like from 1991 to the mid-'90s, when seeing Villano III's name in a lineup is not a sign that there must be something good in this one. That's a pretty big portion of the Villano III that we have video of. It's not his prime (although it's not THAT far off it either), and he's not bad or anything. He looks elegant when he's in there, and I'm not the first to say that he basically made an artform out of the perfunctory second fall, but he rarely makes those UWA TV matches or early AAA matches any better. There's something about his work that feels like punching in, punching out. His 2000 work salvaged my impression of him to an extent, although I wouldn't say that I thought he worked at a phenomenal, best in the world type of level. I was more impressed by finally getting a glimpse of what it looked like when Villano tried to make random weekly TV memorable, which he did a pretty good job of.

Like with most 1980s workers with reputations like his, I try to give him a boost because I know that we didn't get his best years. Then again, he finished ahead of Fuerza Guerrera, and no amount of envisioning missing Villano classics is going to push him ahead of Fuerza for me. I like that he finished 143rd, right next to Lex Luger. Peas in a pod, those two workers.

Villano III vs El Signo (only one fall shown before the picture goes out, but it's the best part)
Villano, Perro Aguayo and Octagon vs Rambo, Pirata Morgan and MS-1
Villano, Atlantis and Perro Aguayo vs Pierroth, Shocker and Mascara Año 2000
Villanos vs Pierroth, Bestia Salvaje and Scorpio Jr.

That does it for guys that I had some opinion of going into this:

Spoiler

- Great workers
El Hijo del Santo
Negro Casas
Fuerza Guerrera
El Dandy
Atlantis
Espanto Jr.
Sangre Chicana
Pirata Morgan
La Fiera
Dr. Cerebro
El Satanico
Black Terry
Emilio Charles Jr.
Super Astro
- Borderline/Flawed/Possible greats
Pierroth Jr.
Ciclon Ramirez
Mocho Cota
Felino
Lizmark
MS-1
Blue Panther
El Texano
Villano III
Javier Cruz
El Faraon
Jerry Estrada
Dos Caras
- Very good workers
Rambo
Angel Azteca
Brazo de Oro
Hombre Bala
Pantera Sureña
Bestia Salvaje
Brazo de Plata
Ultimo Dragon
- Everyone else
Perro Aguayo
Arkangel de la Muerte
Cien Caras
Silver King
Herodes
El Brazo
Javier Llanes
Canek
Octagon
Rayo de Jalisco Jr.
Kung Fu
Konnan

Pierroth Jr. joins Ciclon Ramirez as workers that I'll put on my list even if I have to elbow off someone who maybe has a better case.

Villano III just about marks my line for where I stop being sure that the wrestler in question was a great worker.

I don't know what to do with Pantera Sureña. Her sporadic appearances on CMLL TV didn't have a lot of highlights, but I strongly doubt that those were representative of her talent.

Even if I don't know if I'd say that Brazo de Plata and Ultimo Dragon were VERY good workers, it's easy for me to see why someone would put them on a list. Dragon has the better resume, but Porky outranks him because Dragon himself is just not that interesting.

If I thought that there were 1980s Perro Aguayo matches in which people were fanning him as he sat slumped and bleeding in front of them like they did when he was broken down in the 1990s, I'd be more comfortable placing him higher.

I said that Octagon was in a lot of great matches that he didn't necessarily make better, but I can't really imagine those matches being equally good if it had been Rayo de Jalisco Jr. there in his place. Rayo probably contributed to some of those brawls against Los Hermanos Dinamita more than Octagon could have, to be fair.

I also did some shuffling of guys I already ranked which was too insignificant to comment on.

 

[Matt D]

I watch a lot of wrestling. Rarely does one single act move the needle. What happens with Villano III here after Vulcano destroys his mask after the primera will move the needle.