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Billy Robinson

Grimmas

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Yo-Yo's Roomie Newbie

Yo-Yo's Roomie

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Here's to you, Billy Robinson:

 

Pros

  • Obviously a great technical wrestler, and great at working holds. I love the way Robinson would really crank those holds. I think it was the Verne match from Japan where they work a long headlock section, and I was getting a sore neck just watching it.
  • I really like the sense of progression in Robinson matches, and the way they transition from working holds to big moves to brawling (and vice versa). A Robinson match to me always feels like it's progressing, escalating, and never just stalling or filling time.
  • Billy's short temper spots are some of my favourite bits in wrestling. There's that great thing in the Verne match where Verne keeps palming Billy on the forehead, and you can see Billy getting more and more pissed off. Or a guy will just give him a shove or a strike and his whole demeanour changes.
  • Billy just carried himself so well as a wrestler, in the way he moved around the ring and his body language. This to me is what a wrestler looks like.

Cons

  • I don't think he was a particularly good heel.
  • Not a great tag wrestler either, from what I've seen.
  • I get the sense that there were certain instances where he didn't really feel like giving much to his opponents. I noticed it in particular in one of the Jumbo matches I saw, where he really didn't sell much for Jumbo's stuff.
  • I didn't think he was so good in the one WOS match I saw him in.

I'm pretty sure Billy makes my list. He does so many things well, things I really value in a wrestler. I wish more of his earlier career was available, as he could definitely be a top 20-level guy, given more footage.

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Badlittlekitten Apprentice

Badlittlekitten

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All time great on the mat and with holds. One of the best bomb throwers of his day. Love his temperamental, fired up, over excited act. Tough guy reputation is a bonus with me (sorry) and as silly as it sounds there's always the odd moment where it looks like he is/might start shooting on a guy which gives his matches an edge.

 

The tension between him and Terry Funk in that tag is electric.

 

The 2/3 falls match with Abby soured me on him a tiny bit. Yes, he sold the leg well and ended up losing via stoppage, but he gave the Butcher fuck all in that match. I know he took a beating in the brawl they had but this was still irritating.

 

I like his 'blocking' of strikes though.

 

40-75 guy.

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jdw Newbie

jdw

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  On 11/11/2014 at 3:38 PM, JerryvonKramer said:

Pete, how much -- if at all -- do you hold it against Robinson that he was kind of upper mid-card-y for his whole career? I think I have quite a lot of just random Robinson here and there on various different collections of 70s footage from AWA and elsewhere that I haven't looked at yet. I just wonder if a little bit of Robinson's high-end stuff from Japan is carrying him a long way?

 

I'm wondering where the "upper mid-card-y for his whole career" thing comes from.

 

He was in main events on his first tour of Japan in 1968, and won the promotion's world title in his second one. He worked a ton of main events and semifinals in AWA. I'm sure khawk could say more, and it's been years since I sifted through Clawmaster/Jim Zordani's AWA results... but there was a lot of Billy high on the cards.

 

I think Billy's been often poorly characterized by "history".

 

You use to get, and perhaps still do, comments in pieces by Meltzer and others than Billy was a colorless technical wrestler. You watch Billy against Baba, or him working a tag opposite Dory & Terry with Horst, and you pretty clearly see that Billy was very colorful. He has no problems going toe-to-toe with Terry in "color" to add a spark to a match, or play perfectly off Baba as their match goes on.

 

Same goes with the "mid-carder" stuff.

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kjh Newbie

kjh

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In Robinson's first AWA run from 1971-75, he was pushed as Verne Gagne's babyface equal. Lots of finishes (including some Dusty finishes) where Robinson was robbed of winning Verne's title on a technicality. He also rarely dropped the fall in tag matches against Bockwinkel & Stevens. It would be hard not to classify him as a true main eventer during that period, even though he would never be the "man" because that spot was already taken by the owner of the promotion.

 

His second AWA run fits Parv's description better, but he had runs in Memphis, Mexico and Montreal after his AWA return where he wrestled on top much more frequently.

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JerryvonKramer Contributor

JerryvonKramer

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Why don't we all have a look at the raw evidence together and then people can draw whatever conclusions they will from them.

12/27/70 Denver, CO @ Auditorium Arena
Larry Hennig & Lars Anderson beat Dr X & Double X when Hennig pinned Dr X in the 3rd fall
Billy Robinson beat Ivan Koloff dq in 19:10
Great Kusatsu beat Jerry Miller via pin in 14:32 after a series of judo chops to the throat
Jack Pesek beat Stan Pulaski by submission with an Abdominal Stretch in 16:10
Big K beat Dennis O’Brien via pin in 12:27
Att: 3,870

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JerryvonKramer Contributor

JerryvonKramer

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JerryvonKramer

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JerryvonKramer Contributor

JerryvonKramer

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I cut out any cards that didn't have Robinson on them. He was definitely a main event guy in the promotion during the 71-4 time-frame, especially 73-4. Seems to me that they had a sort of WWF in 2000/1 deal where there was a lot of guys who could slot in main events (Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker, Jericho, Foley, etc.). Verne didn't defend the belt all that much -- although he was on a lot of the cards omitted. Bock and Stevens seemed to headline most shows on the regular loop and Robinson was a frequent opponent with a variety of partners (Dr X, Red Bastien, Don Muraco, Crusher). Crusher and Bruiser seem more like special attractions, with Crusher showing up more often (presumably because Bruiser is promoting WWA shows). On the heel side, Billy Graham and Ivan Koloff both had runs. Murdoch and Rhodes come in at one point, as well as the Black Jacks.

 

Robinson has the feel of a "utility" guy to me. Can slot him into a main event if needed. Like an early 70s AWA version of a Chris Jericho or Mick Foley -- "in the main event mix" as opposed to being one of the top top stars.

 

Also, as an aside, he seems to have been consistently booked very strongly on those Hawaii cards, and even has an NWA title shot against Dory Jr in Jan of 73.

 

My beef with jdw is not necessarily that he is incorrect about things, it's because he's such a colossal prick about it. It's never a conversation with him. He's one of my least favourite people not just on this board but in the world in general. The world needs less people like that. Zellner and Matt Farmer are able to impart knowledge without being total tools about it, jdw is incapable of doing that. It's probably why everyone hates him.

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khawk20 Enthusiast

khawk20

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  On 4/26/2015 at 4:32 PM, PeteF3 said:

I do think it's worth pointing out that Robinson got the Comiskey Park main event against Verne, which was easily the biggest card in company history that point and has argument for being the #1 card overall. It was the AWA's WrestleMania 3.

 

This.

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jdw Newbie

jdw

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  On 4/25/2015 at 12:26 AM, jdw said:

 

  On 11/11/2014 at 3:38 PM, JerryvonKramer said:

Pete, how much -- if at all -- do you hold it against Robinson that he was kind of upper mid-card-y for his whole career? I think I have quite a lot of just random Robinson here and there on various different collections of 70s footage from AWA and elsewhere that I haven't looked at yet. I just wonder if a little bit of Robinson's high-end stuff from Japan is carrying him a long way?

 

I'm wondering where the "upper mid-card-y for his whole career" thing comes from.

 

He was in main events on his first tour of Japan in 1968, and won the promotion's world title in his second one. He worked a ton of main events and semifinals in AWA. I'm sure khawk could say more, and it's been years since I sifted through Clawmaster/Jim Zordani's AWA results... but there was a lot of Billy high on the cards.

 

I think Billy's been often poorly characterized by "history".

 

You use to get, and perhaps still do, comments in pieces by Meltzer and others than Billy was a colorless technical wrestler. You watch Billy against Baba, or him working a tag opposite Dory & Terry with Horst, and you pretty clearly see that Billy was very colorful. He has no problems going toe-to-toe with Terry in "color" to add a spark to a match, or play perfectly off Baba as their match goes on.

 

Same goes with the "mid-carder" stuff.

 

 

 

  On 4/26/2015 at 12:21 AM, kjh said:

In Robinson's first AWA run from 1971-75, he was pushed as Verne Gagne's babyface equal. Lots of finishes (including some Dusty finishes) where Robinson was robbed of winning Verne's title on a technicality. He also rarely dropped the fall in tag matches against Bockwinkel & Stevens. It would be hard not to classify him as a true main eventer during that period, even though he would never be the "man" because that spot was already taken by the owner of the promotion.

 

His second AWA run fits Parv's description better, but he had runs in Memphis, Mexico and Montreal after his AWA return where he wrestled on top much more frequently.

 

It's nice to see that when someone else looked at the results Keith and I looked at years ago, and that Kevin has spent decades learning about his own beloved promotion, that they find the same thing that we said was in them.

 

Then add in Japan where he headlined for three different promotions in the 60s and 70s.

 

As I said, Billy has been poorly characterized by "history".

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Dylan Waco Newbie

Dylan Waco

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Watched the Inoki and Baba matches and enjoyed both a good deal. I've seen the Baba match before. Can't remember if I've seen the Inoki draw or not, but I find it hard to believe I haven't. In any even both felt fresh to me.

 

The Inoki match was obviously more ambitious, but I think it was also obviously the better showcase for Billy. We got to see a lot of things he is good, including his great escalating style of bumping which I think is an underrated form that guys like him and Wiskowski were excellent at, and the nuanced grappling escapes and body positioning. Little things like him checking from one side, and going to another to try and evade Inoki when his back was exposed are huge to me. I also really liked the build to the Boston Crab, the way Billy kept finding ways to sharply hook toward the leg every chance he got, and the timing and choice of big spots. The falls were great, especially the urgency of the Octopus from Inoki. I didn't leave it thinking I'd seen one of the best matches ever, and I wouldn't call it five stars, but it is excellent for a match of that length.

 

The Baba match I thought was very good, but it didn't kick me in the teeth the way I want a truly high end match to. It may have suffered because I had to pause it a few times and I had the sound off for most of it, but to me it came across as a well worked, believable, 2/3 falls match with two guys representing different styles, but not anything that even approached all time classic level. I will say that I did love the finish as I am a huge fan of bouts where one guy unloads his clip in furious desperation, only to be put down with a definitive killshot when he goes to the well once to often. Very much an easily digestible match, that I may need to watch again, but a notch below what I was expecting based on the review.

 

One thing I will say is that I am a bit surprised Parv was so high on the Inoki match only because some of the grappling he seemed to like in it, struck me as something he would dislike coming out of shootstyle (not that it was really shootstyle grappling per se, but some of the escapes, position, strategic approach, et. felt more akin to that than traditional pro-style grappling). Not making a charge of inconsistency, I just find it a bit curious that someone could go full five on one match, and be largely dismissive of the other style if I remember correctly.

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shoe Newbie

shoe

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Per Dylan

 

One thing I will say is that I am a bit surprised Parv was so high on the Inoki match only because some of the grappling he seemed to like in it, struck me as something he would dislike coming out of shootstyle (not that it was really shootstyle grappling per se, but some of the escapes, position, strategic approach, et. felt more akin to that than traditional pro-style grappling). Not making a charge of inconsistency, I just find it a bit curious that someone could go full five on one match, and be largely dismissive of the other style if I remember correctly.

 

 

I'd like to see Parv expand on this too. Since Robinson is a guy who gets credit for that style. Is it easier for Parv to digest it if it isn't labeled as shoot style?

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