Triple H

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[BigBadMick]

Wow! Now we're talkin'!

 

I don't want to rehash all the politics etc from early on.

 

In his favour - 08 feuds with Hardy and Orton, matches with legacy in 09, Undertaker at the 2 Manias (hey, I liked them), 2 good Lesnar matches, Bryan at Mania and the 2 Shield matches after that.

[Jimmy Redman]

The Lesnar matches were terrible. One of the biggest cons I have for Hunter is how frustrated I get when I think about that piece of shit program and how much of Brock Fucking Lesnar's second career was wasted trading wins with that asshole.

 

Like I said in the Edge thread I think Hunter and Edge are quite similar cases in that they have a healthy List of Great Matches, but are often not the guy making the matches great and are more typically the Other Guy due to being in certain positions. Especially in Hunter's case. But at first glance I'd actually have Hunter over Edge, slightly, just because I think Hunter does have more moments of greatness and more genuine ability to his name. Overall output and the lows are about even (both are all-time shitty babyfaces), but Hunter's highs are higher. Hunter frustrates me in the same way that Angle does, in that if he'd just wrestle to his potential a lot more often, I'd think he was amazing. But instead they stick to their flawed, bloated ideas of what makes great wrestling (spots and not selling in Angle's case, forced epics and not showing ass in Hunter's) and they just end up making me hate them a little. If Angle wrestled like he did against Jannetty and Hunter wrestled like he did against Shelton all the time, I'd love them a little. But alas.

[BillThompson]

I had Triple H pegged as a guy with an outside shot at making the bottom of my top 100. I've now reached 2002-2003 in my PPV rewatch project and how did I forget that post-injury Trips is completely awful? He's just, awful, yeah awful covers it perfectly. I don't even care about all the obvious political stuff bleeding over into his matches, but from a strictly in-ring performance perspective he's one of the worst guys in the world in 2002-2003. Does it get better, or does Trips keep spiraling out of control?

[anarchistxx]

 

 

Does it get better, or does Trips keep spiraling out of control?

 

Once Evolution forms he is in quite a few good multi man tag matches on television, though this doesn't have too much to do with him. 2003 he continues to be terrible, Chris Benoit drags him to decent matches in the first half of 2004 which you may want to avoid for obvious reasons. The Eugene program was fantastic as an angle but nothing special in ring. He goes about forty minutes with Randy Orton in fall 2004 in one of the worst main events in history. In 2005 he has a decent program with Batista and takes him to some watchable matches, the Hell In The Cell being particularly decent if I remember rightly.

 

But other than the Evolution six man and eight man tags I wouldn't be seeking out too much stuff from that era, it is very much the same unathletic, repetitive, self indulgent rubbish you've been sitting through already.

[topropepodcast]

Yeah, Haetch has no shot at making my list.

 

I don't like his pimped stuff, and generally out and out can't stand most of the other work. Having recently seen it, his main event at WM25 against Randy Orton is one of the worst Mania main events I can remember. All I could think about it was how much shit Cena-Miz takes, and how this seems to get a pass when we're talking just wretched mains.

 

His 2000s stuff, particularly post-injury, is bad.

 

My fandom largely waned due to his era on top.

 

Beyond just being perhaps my least favorite wrestlers of all time, I don't see the good work. I just don't. He's a fine midcard heel bumper in the 90s, but his main event stuff... I must have blinders on.

[anarchistxx]

He doesn't have a single great match that doesn't involve a ton of props, a load of overbooking and some talented opponents. It is hard to make a case for him when he never carried anyone or had a classic without gimmicks attached.

[TRMD]

I think every single negative that people have of HHH is rooted in a shit ton of truth. And if you think he sucks, I really don't feel strongly enough about him to debate it.

 

But I've always though HHH was good. Just simply good. He's a good worker. He's a decent promo. I think most of the time he infuses his current storyline into his matches. I also think he sells punches extremely well. He's great at selling an ass whooping. Like, legitimately one of the best I've seen. I think he's very believable as a heel. He's the guy who thinks he's the baddest dude on planet earth, but he's actually just a pussy with an inflated ego.

 

Again, he's not great. But given the right opponent and story...and match gimmick..he can play his role very well.

[NintendoLogic]

The best description I've heard of HHH is that he's a good wrestler who thinks he's a great wrestler which ends up making him a shit wrestler.

[Matt D]

Would that apply to Jarrett too?

[bradhindsight]

What award did he win in 2008 for Wrestler of the Year (or something along those lines)? From looking, it wasn't the Observer - PWI maybe?

[thebrainfollower]

On Where the Big Boys Play, I would estimate half the guests mention getting out of wrestling during the HHH reign of terror era. I don't think anyone's done more damage to US pro wrestling in the last 15 years except maybe Vince Russo.

 

HHH wouldn't make a top 500 list of US workers for me. I can't think of a single HHH match I've ever watched that I've liked because of his performance.

[El McKell]

Would that apply to Jarrett too?

Certainly does to TNA era Jarrett, wouldn't say so for 94/95 WWF Jarrett, I think he was usually pretty damn good there

[Matt D]

Would it apply to HHH in 96-98?

[Gregor]

1996-98 HHH couldn't really wrestle like 1999-present HHH because he rarely got 20+ minutes and a main event slot. For the most part early WWF HHH seemed like a guy who was trying hard even if he had some flaws and was kind of generic, and the matches he had felt like typical WWF midcard matches rather than a style unique to him.

[Jesse Ewiak]

A counterfactual I want to throw in. What if HHH never tears his squad during the Benoit/Jericho tag? I mean, up to that point, his 2000-01 run was seen as pretty damn good at the time. My question is, if HHH still has his reign of terror, but he's having 2000-01 HHH matches (which most people generally like) instead of 02-04 era Hunter matches, is that time different seen differently by your average smark, even if the booking is largely the same?

[anarchistxx]

Don't think it made much of a difference really. His style didn't change after the injury, although his quality of opponent declined dramatically at one stage, since most of the roster workhorses were on Smackdown after the brand split. He is still in a position to book himself in lengthy matches and long feuds where he gets hugely disproportionate amounts of screen time. He still wants to play at being NWA Champion Ric Flair. He still wants to go through all the ex-WCW guys convincingly whilst paradoxically playing the cowardly, over confident heel. He is still the focal point of the promotion for years on end indulging himself.

[Johnny Sorrow]

For what it's worth, HHH has himself shit all over the Mania match with Orton. It's on his DVD. He complained about how it was built as a hate filled blood fued and then it was decided the match would be a no DQ/ no count out stip that ruined it, and that it should never have been put on after HBK/ Taker.

[Grimmas]

For what it's worth, HHH has himself shit all over the Mania match with Orton. It's on his DVD. He complained about how it was built as a hate filled blood fued and then it was decided the match would be a no DQ/ no count out stip that ruined it, and that it should never have been put on after HBK/ Taker.

Then why was that stip put on and it went on last? Triple H certainly has the pull for these things not to happen.

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

 

For what it's worth, HHH has himself shit all over the Mania match with Orton. It's on his DVD. He complained about how it was built as a hate filled blood fued and then it was decided the match would be a no DQ/ no count out stip that ruined it, and that it should never have been put on after HBK/ Taker.

Then why was that stip put on and it went on last? Triple H certainly has the pull for these things not to happen.

Or maybe, just maybe, he wasn't lord and master of the galaxy and had to do what his father in law wanted.

[Grimmas]

 

 

For what it's worth, HHH has himself shit all over the Mania match with Orton. It's on his DVD. He complained about how it was built as a hate filled blood fued and then it was decided the match would be a no DQ/ no count out stip that ruined it, and that it should never have been put on after HBK/ Taker.

Then why was that stip put on and it went on last? Triple H certainly has the pull for these things not to happen.

Or maybe, just maybe, he wasn't lord and master of the galaxy and had to do what his father in law wanted.

 

Either way it was complete shit, especially for the main event of WrestleMania.

[anarchistxx]

I remember Randy Orton had such a buzz online after he kicked Vince as well. People thought he was finally going to break out and become a megastar. If ever there was a time for the heel to win decisively at Wrestlemania, that was it.

[fxnj]

So basically he's come out and said he can't have a good match without a bunch of hardcore shit?

[Grimmas]

So basically he's come out and said he can't have a good match without a bunch of hardcore shit?

Unless he's facing someone like Daniel Bryan, I think that is pretty fair.

[Matt D]

The Bryan match was probably the only match in his career this century that was exactly the right length.