Current New Japan

[El-P]

I had removed myself from any possible spoilers/hype/hate that this show and main event would surely get. Have not read any reaction yet either.

 

So glad I did.

Without getting into details, this was easily a top 10, maybe top 5 card to to bottom. As far as a statement, this was Dreamslam level. The worst match was maybe good/very good. It was paced a way that was super easy to watch, not a dull moment. Cool tag matches, bombfests, comedy, Ishii & Suzuki slapping the fuck out of each other, Rey Mysterio in a terrific legend match, Liger looking great, the super fun three-way (a format I usually don't care much for) although I wish TAICHI would have won (I'm really getting into his bullshit lately, and the fact Miho Abe is hot & slutty as shit isn't even a reason why), Jericho going FMW on Naito's ass. Maybe the one match that kinda "underwhelmed" was Ospreay vs Takahashi, although still an terrifc bombfest, wasn't at the level of the Super Jr. final against Ishimori.

 

And that main event ?

 

Greatest match I've ever seen, possibly maybe. If the 14 years old me would put a fantasy epic match, that would be this kind of stuff. Okada is one of the best big match worker ever and he borrowed his two main spots from Jim Brunzell & Jake Roberts. They teased a table spot that *never actually happened*, how awesome is that in term of getting the most out of *nothing* ? I marked out for Omega winning like a little bitch.

 

Like the Man used to say, like it or don't like it, but learn to love it, cause it's the best thing going today.

Also, the right man won. So... "Who are you to doubt Gedo ?"

 

This is everything great about pro-wrestling.

 

And Lucha Underground S4 is beginning this week ? And G.L.O.W at the end of the month ?

 

Gotta love it. Love it love it love it.

[sek69]

Current New Japan is very much like 1996 WCW in the sense of every show having something for everyone, the main difference of course being New Japan main events usually are outstanding and WCW's were normally garbage. It's such a breath of fresh air from the WWE format of each bloated PPV having 8-10 matches that are all laid out the same.

[Grimmas]

Something for everyone, unless you like women's wrestling.

[Boss Rock]

I still think Wrestle Kingdom was a better show top-to-bottom as I felt the undercard dragged a bit at times, but the second half of the show really delivered. And it certainly helped that the undercard still had fun stuff like Ishii and Suzuki brawling. The tag title match was very good and another feather in the cap of an already great year for the Young Bucks. The six-man tag was a lot of fun even if Rey being on the losing team was odd. The Junior title match was great even if Hiromu and Ospreay have never been each other's best opponents. The finishing stretch was fire and Hiromu's booking has been almost as good as it was a year ago. Didn't like the fact that Naito lost but he and Jericho had a banger. Hardcore brawler Jericho is a lot of fun. And I talked about it more in depth in the match review post, but the main event was phenomenal and might be one of the best I've ever seen.

[PeteF3]

Something for everyone, unless you like women's wrestling.

 

I like wrestling--period. Even though joshi definitely had its own style at least in the '80s and '90s, I'm not sure about championing a match or a style simply because it happens to contain women.

 

(Yes, I sort of followed along with all the Twitter drama on this subject--my view is, while there may not be any reason for NJPW *not* to have a women's division, I also don't see any really compelling argument why they *must* have one, either. I'm also not sure if 6-8 women getting a big pay and exposure increase if they were under NJPW contract would do much for women's wrestling as a whole considering that would probably cripple the women's federations, who probably need all the help they can get at the moment.)

[Mad Dog]

Yeah, if I want women's wrestling I'll just fire up Stardom and watch it there. I don't see why New Japan needs to have women's matches on it. That's like saying they needed to bring in deathmatch wrestlers for their big shows.

[Grimmas]

Yeah, if I want women's wrestling I'll just fire up Stardom and watch it there. I don't see why New Japan needs to have women's matches on it. That's like saying they needed to bring in deathmatch wrestlers for their big shows.

If they want to be a global promotion (as it seems they do) they don't look very good not having it.

 

I don't see how deathmatch wrestlers and women are anything similar.

[PeteF3]

Dave's response about how NJPW adding women would be better for women's wrestling--this makes way more sense than his stupid NBA analogy:

 

"It would be far worse for women's wrestling. Either you'd have the elite women go there, taking them away from the headline positions in promotions and those companies would lose popularity, or you'd have non-elite women there, meaning it would not get over,and be a failure.

This is Americans who don't know the industry there trying to make a business decision while not even knowing the first thing about the business or the culture.

UFC is completely different, they had the ability to hire hundreds of women and Strikeforce and Elite XC in their culture already proved the audience was there on a men's show. New Japan doesn't have the roster space to do that nor is there any evidence that the New Japan fan base wants it on their shows.

This is a company that already books six, eight and ten man tags because they have so many men under contract, as keeps the matches short unless you are a top star because they don't want long shows unless it's the major events. There's no spot available unless they run multiple shows per night and you're happy with them killing off the places that develop the new talent."

 

Me again: Joshi went through a severe talent shortage in the late '90s because they killed off the women and girls' audience, and thus their dojo tryouts went from thousands of women a year to maybe a hundred. I'm not sure how easy it is for Stardom, Ice Ribbon, et al to replenish their roster as it is drawing around 700 people per show if that, much less if two major promotions start raiding their talent instead of just the WWE.

[Grimmas]

I do not buy the argument that the second largest promotion in the world promoting women's wrestling would some how hurt women wrestlers. That's ridiculous. More places for women to work with more exposure is helpful.

[PeteF3]

This is not to be read as a defense at all of segregation, but no, it's absolutely not ridiculous--there's past precedent for such an occurrence (scroll down to/search for "Economic Costs of Desegregation on Negro League Baseball").

 

If NJPW thought that incorporating women would help them, they would do it in a way that helped New Japan as a business and only New Japan as a business, not in a way that helped women's wrestling.

[Mad Dog]

Because you have like 9 women's promotions fighting over the same scraps for fans. Plus those promotions are training most of their talent. So you're either going to have to train your own wrestlers, bring in freelancers that people can watch 5 nights a week anyway or bring in shitty wrestlers none of those promotions want. You have to go through all of that and your average New Japan fan would probably rather see Nagata or Kojima work a Young Lion in place of that match. Some random fan that is buying a ticket already has access to those other 9 promotions out there if they like joshi so why do they need it provided to them by New Japan?

[Grimmas]

On second thought, don't really want to have this argument again. My apologies for bringing it up.

[fxnj]

I'm disappointed no one has brought up the intergender route. NJPW bringing in women just to run a showcase match would be boring and not really do much for women's wrestling, but an all-star intergender tag or singles feud is something I can get on board with. Easily the most I've been interested in joshi was when Kana was booking herself against shoot-style male wrestlers.

[Jmare007]

When and why did the "New Japan should book women" argument start?

[El-P]

Kyoko Hamaguchi is gonna be the star of NJPW women's division soon. Zach Arnold reported it. Some time ago. In the 00's...

 

(honestly, I wouldn't mind a women division in NJPW at all. There are too many belts already, get rid of the NEVER and useless US titles and make some room for some awesome girls by cutting a bunch of gaijins and let's have some great women matches at the Tokyo Dome again)

[Microstatistics]

One thing I'll say about Okada and Omega is kudos to them for living up to and even surpassing the insane hype the match had in other circles. A lot of people thought anything less than the GOAT match would be disappointing and this actually delivered for them.

 

Agree with superkix, their G1 match is the best and is a true classic in my view. I liked this fine but, for modern wrestling specifically, I'll take compact over epic any day.

[Seabs]

People arguing for women in New Japan, what do they replace on the card? Because theres no way they can be an addition.

 

Its a silly Americanised argument anyway. The annoying thing is the argument against it isnt easy to make because it a just is argument. All theyd be is a token gesture having matches presented as inferior to almost anything else on their show. The women have their own promotions. Maybe a STARDOM title defence on the Wrestle Kingdom card would be a nice novelty but its just something that is needed for Japanese Wrestling.

[El-P]

Yeah, really, the idea of the Japanese pro-wrestling culture being behind the times because there aren't women in NJ is pretty comical, considering women only shows were successfully running the Budokan 25 years ago. And it has nothing to do with status of women in Japan either.

[Grimmas]

Yeah, really, the idea of the Japanese pro-wrestling culture being behind the times because there aren't women in NJ is pretty comical, considering women only shows were successfully running the Budokan 25 years ago. And it has nothing to do with status of women in Japan either.

Too bad nobody has made that point. They have about NJPW and their treatment of women, but not Japanese wrestling as a whole.

 

I don't know why I keep seeing this strawman being brought up.

[PeteF3]

Bix has made that point repeatedly, actually.

[SpecialK]

Have any of the folks clamouring for women in NJPW bothered to ask any of NJPW's female fans if they want to see joshi matches?

[El-P]

And one other thing : you don't *have to* have women on your promotion. It's a men's promotion in a country that has a history of men and women promotions being different beasts (only FMW had a mixed roster on a regular basis, really), always has been. Women were never "special attraction" in japanese pro-wrestling. They were stars of their own. Why should New Japan change now ? Because WWE suddenly discovered serious female pro-wrestler 30 years after the fact and is doing PR about it ? It's ridiculous, honestly.

 

If anything, the WWE is actually hurting joshi puroresu actively by going after the biggest names in an already very fragile scene, but I guess it's ok because it's a women's revolution and shit and they got enough money from the Saoudis and progressive news channel FOX to support this great feminist movem... wait. Oh, nevermind.

 

All in all, I'd enjoy to see an FMW like division in NJPW. But they absolutely don't *have to* do it. It's a men's company, it's as simple as that and it's understood. The argument against that is purely americanized, PC and completely hypocrite because it pretends dealing in morals and shit while still feeding into the global capitalistic entertainment industry. Come on now.

 

As far as NJ presenting women as scantily clad valets, well, yeah, that's really what is striking about NJ's product in the first place when you watch it. Miho Abe being there every other card cosplaying as some evil magical girl and sometime Yujiro bringing a stripper that you see for about 30 seconds. Big deal, really. So shocking and exploitative.

[El-P]

Have any of the folks clamouring for women in NJPW bothered to ask any of NJPW's female fans if they want to see joshi matches?

 

You mean all those women in the stands frothing when Tana is showing his six-pack and pecs and crying when cuty Omega finally wins the big one ? Nah, they're too busy twitting about how Miho Abe is so scandalous and not empowering^tm. I guess.

[PeteF3]

And FMW had room for a women's division because they were a B-level promotion with less men's depth than the Big Two but still enjoyed the fruits of the Joshi class of the late '80s created by the Crush Gals' popularity. And even then, who ever really gave a fuck about any of the FMW women once you got past Kudo and Combat?

[Grimmas]

Bix has made that point repeatedly, actually.

Can you point to it, because I can't find where he said that. I only see him talking about NJPW itself. I might have missed it.