BigBadMick Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 From the Flair-Steamboat podcast - 'I found it fascinating that Steamboat questioned the wisdom of being so tough on trainees. I've never heard that from an old-timer before. And I agreed with him.' Steamboat was wondering how many potentially good workers were put off by 'initiation'. Flair said he didn't feel sorry for any rookies beaten badly because he'd gone through it (a standard veteran pov). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Sgt Buddy Lee Parker probably chased of a load of people with potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted June 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 That, and the people that do stay on have a bitter, toxic attitude ingrained in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 And weren't able to work because Sarge was too busy making sure they could do a thousand squats to actually teach the Power Plant guys some, you know, wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Sgt Buddy Lee Parker probably chased of a load of people with potential. Â And weren't able to work because Sarge was too busy making sure they could do a thousand squats to actually teach the Power Plant guys some, you know, wrestling. Â With Batista being the most famous example probably. I won't sit here and claim Batista was the second coming of Lou Thesz, but that's a prime example of all the money WCW chased away - just one of the many reasons they're now out of business. Â Putting a total nobody like Sarge in that kind of position is another head-scratcher to me. Look, I know better than to think only headliners can be good wrestling instructors - I'm aware of many examples, such as Johnny Rodz, who were lower card wrestlers and great trainers - but I'm having a hard time figuring out anything Sarge brought to the table in the ring, as a personality, you name it. Â Yeah, Goldberg bends over backward to give Sarge credit, but Sarge didn't teach Goldberg's charisma and presence - and he sure as hell didn't teach Goldberg much wrestling either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 There were upsides but just look at continental Europe, the business there pretty much committed suicide because of such practices. By being horrible human beings the wrestlers wanted to save their spots, but in the end they just limited their opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 People shit on Parker (with good reasons, he sucked), but wasn't Orndorff in charge of the Power Plant ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 There's a reason some talented girls flew off GAEA's dojo too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Not defending these practices, but hindsight is a big help here. There's a balance between nurturing potential talent and weeding out those you don't want to waste resources on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 People shit on Parker (with good reasons, he sucked), but wasn't Orndorff in charge of the Power Plant ? Â I'm not sure, but both Goldberg (positively) and Batista (negatively) seemed to refer to Sarge as the main trainer at the Power Plant, so there's that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think Paul Orndorff was the Manager, and Sarge the Head Trainer with help from people like Pez Whatley, Mike Winner, and for some godforsaken reason, Ron Reis if wiki is to be believed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think Paul Orndorff was the Manager, and Sarge the Head Trainer with help from people like Pez Whatley, Mike Winner, and for some god forsaken reason, Ron Reis. Â That is a pretty sorry ass collection of trainers. Again, I realize being a top star doesn't necessarily make someone a good wrestler instructor, but Good God, could they have scraped the bottom of the barrel more with those choices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 At this point they only have themselves to blame for the shrinking bodies that comes through training camps. They are so preoccupied with the idea they have to teach respect that they have long ago scared off legitimate prospects who approached it the same way they would approach football camps or basketball camps-a job with the prospect of making a lot of money by being good at it. Now they lament at how the dedicated wrestlers are the scrawny life long fans/marks and they cry about real athletes deciding to do MMA or other things. A lot good their principles and philosophy as trainers have done for them, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 WWE's methods haven't helped either. Someone mentioned that there's basically a lost generation of guys who never were even considered because they had that phase during the Big Johnny era where you had to be 6'2 250 pounds to even be noticed. Things got a little better thanks to the ROH guys who got over and changed perceptions somewhat, but then now you have the new Tough Enough where they stocked up with fitness models and bodybuilder types. Most of those kind of folks don't really have what you would call passion for wrestling, there's not much motivation for them to improve, but hey as long as they look pretty on TV that's all it seems to take to make Vince happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 I don't think you have to have a hulking physique or be a giant to contribute to wrestling but you should at the very least have an athletic bone in your body. A lot of the schools nowadays are just taking anyone and everyone and take money off them while forcing them to do stuff that is honestly beyond their athletic capacity. A good trainer should be exploring their limits and then working around it filling in the gaps any way they can credibly do so. The RoH way isn't that good either because they are being taught to wrestle this overwrought epic style without understanding what they are not physically capable of being. I don't know what the answer is but I don't think what they have in place is it. The WWE Performance Center is probably the best of a poor lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Is Big Johnny really to blame though, or was he just being a meek, mousy yes man giving the boss - Vince - what he wanted? Based on BJ's Japanese background, I find it hard to believe that he'd have a big man fetish. That's a Vince staple through and through. Yes, things are different now with H, but only because H is family and has more leeway to voice his opinions and chart his own direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 but then now you have the new Tough Enough where they stocked up with fitness models and bodybuilder types. Most of those kind of folks don't really have what you would call passion for wrestling, there's not much motivation for them to improve, but hey as long as they look pretty on TV that's all it seems to take to make Triple H happy. Â Corrected. That's Trips' background. Anyone thinking he won't go into that route is delusional. The whole "raiding indies" is an opportunity to make himself look good on a smaller scale, but Trip is a bodybuilder/fitness model jerkoff to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 They even chased away guys with name value who had drawn like Goldberg all because he treated wrestling like a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Didn't Luger get shit on in WCW booking-wise for that exact same reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah. How dare these people not respect da business ? Â Seriously, pro-wrestling has some really screwed up "values" that just need to go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 It's the one thing that's going to drive me away some day, it's values are just the complete opposite of everything I believe as a human being. Vince McMahon particularly is as a polar opposite from me in creed and philosophy as it is possible to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Before he had even proven himself, Luger was smart enough to negotiate a big money contract and he was also usually able to add perks into his deal that no one else got. So other wrestlers resented him in part for that. Kevin Nash likes to claim that the guaranteed contract is his legacy, but I'm not so sure about that, as Luger was the first guy to really negotiate his contract in a smart, all-encompassing way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Every field has that to a degree though, lifers who get pissed not everyone is devoted to the cause as they are. I had a supervisor get offended when I worked in retail because I wanted to cut my hours back to accommodate my college schedule. "You need to decide which is more important" he said, and he didn't like it when I said considering I was asking to cut back on hours I already answered that question. Â It seems more ridiculous in wrestling when you consider very few people, motivated or not, will have the chance to be a "lifer" in the business considering the injury/politics cocktail that seems to torpedo so many careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Kevin Nash likes to claim that the guaranteed contract is his legacy, but I'm not so sure about that, as Luger was the first guy to really negotiate his contract in a smart, all-encompassing way. Â Marc Mero had a garanteed contract in the WWF before Nash even jumped. That's usual Nash bullshit. And really, Hulk Hogan anyone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 Weren't Hall and Nash the first ones to have "favored nations" contracts making sure they'd always be the highest paid guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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