Loss Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 This sounds like kind of a downer topic, but I think it has the potential to be fun. I think it could be argued that each major company has their own personal brand of bad. Bad ROH doesn't look like bad WWE, and bad WWE doesn't look like bad WCW most of the time. I thought it would be fun to talk about not just what bad wrestling looks like in each group, but what bad traits are unique to each group. There are some things that are universally bad: - Bad matches - Bad interviews - Bad finishes But then there are more specific mistakes which I think are often unique to a company. For example, how would each of the big companies misuse Cesaro? We know how WWE would misuse Cesaro. They've shown us. WCW would have hidden him on WCW Saturday Night or used him to put over Bagwell, Disco Inferno and Van Hammer. TNA would build the match everyone wanted to see him have right away, then gradually squander all of his appeal over several years. So for this topic, let's talk about bad moments in wrestling history and imagine how a different company might have fucked it up in an equally bad but very differently bad way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Lots of people hated Papa Shango, but his goofy magic was *way* better-executed than the goofy magic of the Black Scorpion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I have no idea how WWF at the time would have handled the debut of The Shockmaster but I would have loved to hear Vince himself try and cover for it on commentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 When Flair debuted in WWF in 1991, he always had his robe on, even in the Prime Time studio. It was weird. Would the Nature Boy exist if he came up in WWF and always wore a robe instead of the suit, tie, Rolex and fancy shoes? Edit: I hit the post button too soon.... I think the WWF's micromanagement, even back when the micromanagement wasn't nearly as bad as it is today, would have stifled a lot of characters back in the day. Do we really think Flair wanted to debut in WWF wearing a robe? Seems like a Vince thing. "Uh, no Ric. You're a WWF superstar. People don't want to see you dressed like a banker. We have IRS for that. Wear your robe everywhere you go. The one with all the diamonds and sparkles on it. The people will love that." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I have no idea how WWF at the time would have handled the debut of The Shockmaster but I would have loved to hear Vince himself try and cover for it on commentary. He would have had a better outfit, if nothing else. Say what you want about Max Moon...but he didn't look *cheap.* I think it's pretty likely the WWF eventually does the same thing as Dusty did--own up to it and make being clumsy part of his character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Loss mentioned that WCW would have had Daniel Bryan languish forever in the cruiserweight division. I wonder what they would have done with CM Punk. I would guess more of the same, but I could easily see Punk getting enough mic time and quasi-shooting with it, and getting away with it for awhile due to lack of quality control, to the point where fans start reacting. He was skinny, but in a way he was also sort of Bischoff and Russo's wet dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 ROH isn't screwing up Dalton Castle in the least, but I don't know if WWE could actually do something with him on the big stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Loss mentioned that WCW would have had Daniel Bryan languish forever in the cruiserweight division. I wonder what they would have done with CM Punk. I would guess more of the same, but I could easily see Punk getting enough mic time and quasi-shooting with it, and getting away with it for awhile due to lack of quality control, to the point where fans start reacting. He was skinny, but in a way he was also sort of Bischoff and Russo's wet dream. I think Punk would probably have gotten the same support as Chris Jericho did. A superstar in the cruiserweight division but a joke if put against names that carried political clout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 WCW's famous movies would have been backstage segments in WWE. For the Jake Roberts one, instead of shooting laser beams out of their eyes, they'd just stare at each other and breathe heavily, and Stephanie would scold them and book them in a chairs match. The White Castle of Fear one would have Sting spiking Vader's, Race's, and Cheatum's food with laxatives, and Vader would challenge a gloating Sting to the strap match from inside a bathroom stall. For the boat bomb one, the heels' evil plan would instead be to dump a pile of dog poop on Sting and Smith, but Smith would overhear them talking about it and press slam Cheatum into the pile, in a moment that would get replayed in every video package leading up to the match. Then Teddy Long would come out and say, "You guys wanna play around in poop so badly? Well, at Beach Blast, you're gonna get that chance, because we're gonna have ourselves a tag team match!" After the feud, Cheatum would stick around for four years as Sting's comedy sidekick. To write Daniel Bryan out, WCW would have him come out and randomly thank the fans for their support, and then Hollywood Hogan (who wasn't feuding with him) would talk about how sick this makes him and how Bryan is a puny little brain-dead nobody. Then he'd hit Bryan with a chair, and after a long Hogan promo Roddy Piper would confront him to set up their match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Great post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 It's been years since I was watching WCW TV, but that post brought me right back. The Daniel Bryan part I swear actually happened with somebody. Would Sting also make PG 13 poopy jokes back at Vader (who would I assume be Authority-backed Orton withTriple H and Kane in the WWE scenario) as if he were John Cena? Because that was how it played out for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 CM Punk in WCW would've been placed into a program with Vampiro on the basis that they both like the Misfits. They'd feud and tag up and Punk would eventually quit anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Disco Inferno would have gotten a Frankie Avalon gimmick in mid 90s WWF. Vince nostalgia for his childhood Charles Wright would have been Harlem Heat's tough, grizzled childhood friend who taught them the ways and would be managed by Col Parker to tease trouble with Sherri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 If people think Vince McMahon being revealed as the Higher Power in 1999 was silly, imagine how great it would have been in WCW when it turns out to be Brutus Beefcake! I also think, in hindsight, it's actually a little surprising that WCW did the Fingerpoke of Doom before the WWF did. It would have absolutely right in the wheelhouse of the whole Vince McMahon megalomania lift off with him winning the Royal Rumble, the Higher Power angle etc. It probably would have still stunk like hell of course, but I somehow doubt it would have been as (relatively among the company's fanbase) toxic as it is seen by WCW watchers. Man alive, 1999 was a strange year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 They did do it with DX in late 1997 but for the European title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LariatMMBOPPO Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 No, that was the Lock-Up of Doom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 The follow up being botched (and Schiavone's infamous call regarding Foley) are what soured that moment. If they actually did the logical thing of Goldberg tearing through the nWo en route to obliterating Hogan and getting the title back it wouldn't be as looked down upon. If the WWF had done it in the main event? Austin would've run through the Corporation and beaten the hell out of whatever champ Vince hand picked to get the title back. Which is kinda/sorta what happened (the WWF Fingerpoke is basically Rumble '99). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Look no further than No Way Out 2002 for how WWE would have botched the nWo. I just recently watched that show and it really counters any claim that WCW "got lucky" with the nWo storyline in 97-98. WCW was able to keep that angle red hot for a long stretch, while, in one night, WWE basically debuted it and destroyed it in a span of 3 hours. Here's some specifics - - Show starts with nWo coming out and cutting a promo that is remarkably similar to a John Cena speech of today. The crowd boos them at first, but then, they just ask the WWE Universe for a chance and say that they have come not to destroy the WWE, but to be a part of its awesomeness. This pandering is supposed to sarcastic, I think, but it comes off as genuine. - They outnumber Austin backstage. Offer him beer. He turns them down. They walk away (while the Charlie Brown Christmas theme plays ala George Michael on "Arrested Development"*). - They outnumber The Rock backstage and ask him for an autograph. The Rock agrees. Hogan mutters something under his breath and the Rock owns all three in a promo. Again, instead of jumping him, the nWo walks off without incident. - At the end of the show, the nWo helps Chris Jericho retain his title (eventhough Jericho has no link to the group). After spray-painting Austin, they run away, fearing that Austin will get up and whoop all three of them. Basically, everything that made the nWo cool (their defiant, cocky promos, their We're Above Everyone attitude, and their gang beatdowns on hapless babyfaces) are gone and, in their place, we have a triad of jobbers who come off as less intimidating than Too Cool (hell, they're less intimidating than X-Factor). * Okay, maybe the song doesn't play, but it easily could've. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Not to mention that their version of the NWO t-shirt had the same WWF.com logo on the back that all the other merchandise at the time. They only existed within the framework of their feuds, when the brilliance of the original angle was the feeling that they could show up at literally any moment. Not only that, in fact, but that doing so would make sense since their goal was to take over the company. WWE booked them like an ordinary top heel faction instead of a group of invaders. When WCW started treating them as an institution and Schiavone was no longer affected enough by their entrance music starting to delay running through WCW's upcoming on-sale dates, that's when the group stopped being effective. The NWO only really works if it's different in terms of the booking and even the aesthetics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 When Flair debuted in WWF in 1991, he always had his robe on, even in the Prime Time studio. It was weird. Would the Nature Boy exist if he came up in WWF and always wore a robe instead of the suit, tie, Rolex and fancy shoes? Edit: I hit the post button too soon.... I think the WWF's micromanagement, even back when the micromanagement wasn't nearly as bad as it is today, would have stifled a lot of characters back in the day. Do we really think Flair wanted to debut in WWF wearing a robe? Seems like a Vince thing. "Uh, no Ric. You're a WWF superstar. People don't want to see you dressed like a banker. We have IRS for that. Wear your robe everywhere you go. The one with all the diamonds and sparkles on it. The people will love that." Just a thought but I suspect the robe thing was to give him a unique look and not confuse him with Ted DiBiase who also wore a suit. Vince is all about giving each and every guy a USP, Flair's Slick Ric persona with the rolexes etc. were probably a bit too close to Million Dollar Man for Vince's tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Yeah the brilliance of the early nWo is (at least in part) how it played off the southern wrestling marks' fears that Hogan and friends were here to turn The Holy Southern Wrestling into New York. The path of the nWo is sort of like a rock band that early in their career "stood for something" but later on sold a million albums, and once it became all about t-shirt sales, some of the early fans say "they're too mainstream for me now". I guess what I'm saying is Rage Against the Machine is pro wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I had never seen Flair take bumps in the robe or attack someone while wearing the robe until he went to the WWF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Also Mr Perfect was wearing a suit. In Vince's thinking that is too confusing for fans and toy manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 When he needed to wear street clothes, he wore Cosby sweaters (I guess we need a new name to describe THAT) and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 "Quaalude sweater" may be even more inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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