Rebuilding Roman Reigns

[Slasher]

How often do the WWE swing by Puerto Rico? Is it annually?

[Loss]

My entire thoughts on the matter were summed up by saying "interesting numbers." I'll let everyone else argue over what they do/don't mean. Not saying that to be a dick but I just thought they were interesting numbers when I read them and I posted them just because they fit in this thread.

 

And that's what I did. Respond to them. The end.

[Wade Garrett]

I think the man is money. He checks all the boxes from where I'm sitting. He can only get better as a performer if he continues working his ass off and has the support politically. I think his ceiling his higher than Cena.

[Parties]

After digging into the actual numbers, I'd say that Reigns is in some ways booked stronger than I'd initially thought, but that the problems in his presentation still remain. He's winning a lot, yet he isn't presented like a winner, which is a bad combination.

 

If you look at the loaded nature of a win-loss record that includes house shows, he’s currently at 122 wins and 13 losses for 2015. Almost all of those wins are on un-televised live events: in fact, he wins his house show matches about 95% of the time, beating Wyatt, Show, and Kane dozens of times throughout the spring/summer. A win-loss record doesn’t speak to how bad his feuds/character presentation/promos have been, but it tells us a few things, as his TV and PPV run offer a different story:

From Mania on, in TV matches, by my count he’s at 23 wins and 9 losses: so he’s hitting .750, almost exactly. You can read those numbers however you wanna read them: not sure how that record compares to Orton, Ambrose, Cena, a part-timer like Jericho, or your average jobber. The takeaways that I note here are that 1) When he loses, it’s in his most important matches on the biggest stages (PPVs, title opportunities, matches with big stars). 2) He’s been losing more often of late: defeated in five TV matches in a one month span between MITB and Battleground, which could give the impression that they’re tanking him for sympathy now to build him back up. 3) Four of his wins are flagrant DQs with run-ins from heel opponents. He didn’t get pins, even if he walks tall at segment’s end. 4) Thirteen of his 23 wins happened on Smackdown. The wins he does get are on the show that no one watches.

1. With Ambrose, they’ve beaten New Day and Wyatt/Harper the last two weeks.
2. They were on the winning team of the 8/18 eight-man tag on SD.
3. Reigns beat Harper on SD. (8/11)
4. Beat Rusev on SD. (8/4)
5. Won the 6-man against Bray/Harper/Sheamus (RAW, 8/3)
6. Beat Harper again (RAW, 7/20)
7. Most recent loss came at Battleground to Wyatt (7/19). Which means he hasn’t lost a match in six weeks, but that loss came on PPV in high profile fashion.
8. Him and Dean beat Sheamus/Show by DQ (SD, 7/14)
9. Beat Big Show (SD, 7/7)
10. Lost to Sheamus by count-out on RAW.
11. Beats Rollins by DQ (SD, 6/30)
12. Lost to Kane/Rollins in teaming with Ambrose. (6/29)
13. No Contest with Sheamus on RAW (6/22)
14. With Ambrose, lost to Kane/Sheamus on SD (6/16)
15. Lost MITB via Wyatt run in to start their feud (6/14)
16. Beat Kane/Kofi/Sheamus in six man tag. (SD, 6/9)
17. Beat Kofi (RAW, 6/8).
18. Beat Sheamus by DQ (SD, 6/2)
19. Beat Wyatt, Barrett, and Henry [via count-out] in three straight matches (RAW, 6/1)
20. w/ Ambrose, beat Kane/Rollins by DQ on RAW (5/25) and SD (5/26). Assume these were J&J run-ins.
21. Loses the Fatal 4-Way at Payback to retaining champ Rollins in a PPV main event that I don’t even remember. (5/17)
22. Beats Kane (SD, 5/12)
23. No Contest w/ Orton (RAW, 5/4). Earlier in the show, Reigns and Orton lost a handicap tag to New Day.
24. Beats Kane by count out (SD, 4/28)
25. W/ Orton, beats Kane/Rollins (RAW, 4/27)
26. Beats Big Show at Extreme Rules (4/26). Legit PPV win.
27. w Ambrose, defeats Harper/Rollins (SD, 4/21)
28. (Had a period here of two weeks off TV, or at least out of matches. Injured? Good booking!)
29. Beats Barrett/Sheamus/Show in 6-man w/ Bryan/Ziggler (SD, 4/7) Only went 12 mins but still feels like something worth watching in hindsight.
30. Beats Big Show (RAW, 4/6)
31. #1 Contender Match: loses to Orton (w/Ryback) (RAW, 4/6) Man, they really should have done Ryback-Rollins around this time.
32. With Orton and Ryback, wins 6-man against Kane/Rollins/Show. (RAW, 3/30)
33. Loses to Rollins in main event of Mania.

[Loss]

Even when he does win, it's not really convincing because he doesn't get enough offense throughout the match. His opponent takes most of the match, then he hits his signature spots at the end and that's that.

[Jingus]

Yeah. It's like the Cena "defying the odds!" formula which got so damn stale in the late aughts, or a Randy Savage match from 1995. They've got this giant Samoan monster with a menacing look and a variety of fun movez, and they've decided that what he should really specialize in is selling. "Hey fans, you should cheer this guy, he's great at GETTING THE SHIT BEATEN OUT OF HIM!" If he was a foot shorter and a hundred pounds lighter, this would be an excellent way to get him over. As it is, it just makes him look like an underachiever.

[Russellmania]

to those arguing that he should be selling less and kicking ass more then what do you do when that inevitably leads the crowd to believe he's "being pushed down our throats?" People will just assume that he's getting the golden boy treatment again and will reject him if he starts dominating.

 

I hate to say it, but I think there's really no option but to turn him heel for a while. Lately that seems like the only way these dipshit "smark" fans will accept anyone as a face: turn them heel and then let the fans think *they* chose to turn the guy face. (see New Day, The Shield, Cesaro, etc.)

 

what sucks is that he was already a heel that the fans turned face as part of the Shield and they sabotaged his momentum by pitting him against Bryan in the fans' minds

[Loss]

That might happen, but it didn't happen with Ryback at the height of his strong push, for example. It didn't happen with Rusev during his undefeated streak either. People usually like winners. I agree that heel to babyface is a good plan to wash him clean though.

[Jingus]

You can do both. Turn him heel AND stop making his matches into masochistic exhibitions of how long he can lay there and let the other guy beat on him.

[Slasher]

Thing is, turning heel isn't enough. He has tp turn heel in such a way that it erases everything the fans have come to expect of him. Otherwise turning him heel might have the same effect that turning Orton or Sheamus heel did for them (which is precisely nothing).

[...TG]

From the 7/13 Observer's house show report for 7/5 in Rockford, IL:

 

 

Fans cheered both [Reigns and Wyatt] during the match.

 

From the 7/20 Observer's house show report for 7/10 in Philadelphia:

 

 

The adult guys here were booing Reigns but the kids and women were cheering him.

 

From the 8/10 Observer's house show report for 8/1 in Hidalgo, TX:

 

 

Reigns also got a superstar reaction.

 

From the 8/31 Observer's house show report for 8/21 in Bridgeport, CT:

 

No booing at all for Reigns, and he was super over.

 

This probably means very little. It's all anecdotal, and there's plenty of reports from shows with Reigns where nothing is noted. And there is, of course, a huge difference between the crowds at TV and the house shows. (There's similar reports for Cena - very little booing, huge reaction/cheers.) But maybe a takeaway is that despite the heavy-handedness of his push that certainly has turned off the hardcores, they've succeeded in making him a star to at least part of the audience? So I don't think it's been the complete disaster most in this thread seem to believe.

[Jesse Ewiak]

I'm halfway between the "everything is fine" reaction and the "it's a political hit reaction and Reigns is doomed" reaction.

 

I think obviously, they could've pushed him better. But, in all reality, being in the upper midcard is probably the best place for him at the moment, at least while what is up top is happening up top.

 

However, I also think that Reigns running over people would get him over - as long as he was running over the right people. Ignoring the fact that there's some small Internet contingent for every wrestler on the roster, probably 60-70% of the roster Reigns could semi-squash and only a small percentage of the crowd would react badly to that. Throw in some more bullet list style promos that he's supposedly great at, and we've got a recipe for an over face.

 

As long as Bryan isn't in the Rumble...again.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Roman Reigns is less protected than John Cena, Randy Orton, Seth Rollins, Bray Wyatt, HHH, Stephanie McMahon, Brock Lesnar, Undertaker and Kane. Maybe we can now add Braun Strowman to that list. Someone barely in the top ten of most protected acts in WWE isn't really evidence of a guy being pushed too hard. Is he noticeably more protected than Kevin Owens, Cesaro or Dean Ambrose these days? I think if you asked WWE, they'd say yes, but in practice, not really.

Reigns not being "protected" is part of the redemption tour.

[WingedEagle]

I'm halfway between the "everything is fine" reaction and the "it's a political hit reaction and Reigns is doomed" reaction.

 

I think obviously, they could've pushed him better. But, in all reality, being in the upper midcard is probably the best place for him at the moment, at least while what is up top is happening up top.

 

I definitely agree if the plan to rehab him is a long term one, especially if it includes a heel run. Where I'd raise an eyebrow is if that plan is to heat him up again in time for Mania 32 as he's not going to get over with a Bryan type of charisma but would rather need a bump to reestablish him at a higher level. Something more than a video package about his travails since Mania and assuming the underdog mantle at Rumble.

[Slasher]

I think the only way Reigns would be seen as an underdog at the Rumble is if the Authority purposefully stuck him with the #1 entry. Reigns coming in anywhere from 11 to 30 isn't quite underdog-ish considering he has already been built up as a guy who does a lot of damage in multi-person environment (see Survivor Series 2013 and Royal Rumbles 2014 and 2015).

[Grimmas]

Reigns coming in first would make everybody think he was going to win.

[Slasher]

I meant in storyline. Regardless of when he enters, the fans are going to believe he is one of the frontrunners to win. But also I think I would have booked him #1 and then be the last guy eliminated. But of course that probably turns the winner into a big babyface so whatever.