MFoy Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 On a recent Good Will Wrestling about past Summerslams, Parv mentioned how terrible the WWF was in 95 and said that WCW, if you looked past the Dungeon of Doom stuff, was a perfectly fine wrestling promotion. Both promotions were near their creative lows in 95 but I personally found WCW, prior to the debut of Nitro in September, to be the most abysmally bad major promotion I can ever remember seeing. The angles were almost all hokey, the presentation was super corny, and the wrestling was worse than in pretty much any other period of the promotion. When you throw in the Hogan/DOD stuff and the many lousy PPVs, I don't see how one can say the WWF was worse that year. Don't get me wrong, the WWF had a lousy year but they had more good stuff going on throughout the year. Bret was still having good matches. Shawn Michaels was having one of his better years. Bull Nakano and Alundra Blayze had a very good match on Raw. Wrestlemania was disappointing and King of the Ring was terrible, but WCW had a PPV that rivaled it in Uncensored, and across the board their major shows were worse. I concede that once Nitro started, things changed and WCW improved dramatically while the WWF did not, but up until that point I found 95 WCW to be essentially unwatchable. What do you all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 99 for both companies was way worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 I bought a 'Best of WCW - The Hogan Years' compilation tape series years ago. The first covered July '94 to June '95. Only three matches were from '95 - Arn v Wright (Slamboree) and Pillman v Wright and Flair v Savage (Great American Bash). I've never really seen much else from the first half of the year, and can't think of anything I feel I'm missing out on (although I'm open to recommendations from here). WWF wasn't completely atrocious in 1995. I thought Bret was solid enough (v Lafitte, Hakushi, Diesel and Bulldog), and Michaels was fine. SummerSlam had at least 3 really good matches (Hakushi-Kid, HBK-Ramon, Skip-Horowitz) and Bret-Yankem and Undertaker-Kama were decent. I think WWF gets a bad rap that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Perhaps Loss can comment? I was mainly thinking of the first leg of Flair vs. Savage, Flair and Arn vs. the football guys was fun (that was 95 right?), Luger / Sting stuff was fun in 95. I dunno, beyond Dungeon of Doom, I think it's a solid year and do not dread getting to that period on WTBBP (beyond initial ANGER at Hogan and cronies coming in and Flair jobbing out, etc.) WWF 95 feels like the drizzling shits to me. All I can think about is the Godwins slopping DiBiase, horrendous Million Dollar Corporation angles, and about a million fucking Doinks and Dinks. Kinda blurry on what happened when, but I HATE that era. Duke the Dumpster. Men on a Mission. Adam Bomb. Heel Tatanka for fuck's sake. Yokozuna at almost 800lbs. Diesel as champ. Isaac Yankem. "In Your House" (lame packaging and concept even at the time). It's a hideous HIDEOUS period, with almost no redeeming features that I can think of. WCW still had a terrific roster of talent, even if the Hogan stuff was lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Take a look through the yearbook, Parv. There's more to 1995 WWF than Mabel, Godwinns, Adam Bomb etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Oh yeah, WCW was much worse. The WWF would have been just as bad without Shawn, Bret, Owen and Kid as the four pillars up and down the card, but they did have them. Flair/Arn vs football guys was 1996, after the NWO angle had already started in fact. Luger/Sting was also '96. 1995 is the Hogan/Vader feud, formation of the Dungeon of Doom, Flair-Savage (which was a rare bright spot), the horrible first Uncensored and DDP winning the lottery. Booking was pretty bad in both companies, but the WWF had the better wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 I think some of this might also be because there is Wrestlecrap I can really love in an ironic way: The YETAYY!!! And Wrestlecrap I just hate (see all of the WWF stuff listed above). But to be sure, it's been a while for both, which is why I have the dates a bit mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 I like the Triangle match from Starrcade 95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 I love the WCW C-shows in 1995. Prime has a ton of fun match ups and Dusty hosting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 I don't know, I can appreciate the announce duo of Todd Pettengill and Stephanie Wiand in an ironic way. And also, "In Your House", which is probably the single dumbest name idea for a show in the history of major league wrestling. The year is also bookended with good stuff. Jim Ross was booking at the very beginning of the year and the TV was laid out like it was the 1970s for a few weeks, which was fun. Then, the year ended with Diesel's fake shoot interview and the Shawn Michaels collapse, followed by Bret-Davey Boy with BLOOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 ' Jim Ross was booking at the very beginning of the year and the TV was laid out like it was the 1970s for a few weeks, which was fun. ' Could you explain that, Loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Vince did a sit-down interview with Diesel where he talked about his history of knee injuries, they admitted his name was Kevin Nash and that he was married and otherwise tried to humanize him. There was TONS of strategy talk in every match. And they were building Wrestlemania with Ernie Ladd talking about the football-to-wrestling transition and giving strategy tips. It didn't last, but the presentation was almost too old school for a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 This front cover says a lot about that era for me: I imagine "In Your House" to be spoken like one of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. RADICAL! Everything is kinda wonky and wacky and zany. There's something about the era I find literally horrendous. I cannot STAND Shawn during that time. In fact, Todd Pettengill in general sums it up. The change from Mooney to Pettengill says EVERYTHING. Stupid stupid Pettigill sitting there eating his popcorn like an overgrown teenager. WCW presentation feels more classic: Closer to late 80s / early 90s WWF with Mean Gene there, news reports etc. I guess that presentational stuff means more to me that in-ring quality or actual booking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Also, Vince becomes a total pardoy of himself on commentary during that time. UNBELIEVABLE OMMYGODHEGOTIM within the first 20 seconds of a match. He is maybe at his throatiest during that time-frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 All I notice on WCW box covers like that is that the photographs look so amateur because of the lighting. I always thought that reading WCW Magazine at the time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 It's only just occurred to me, but was Vince making a deliberate push for a teenage audience in 94-6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Yes. The WWF product basically grew up with Generation Y in terms of their presentation in the 80s, early 90s and late 90s. Interestingly enough, the Gen-Y crowd became adults and WWE has sort of floundered (not business wise, but in terms of a clear mission of what they are) since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFoy Posted September 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 99 for both companies was way worse. WCW in 99 had less logical booking and completey destroyed the good will of the fans, so in that sense you're right about them. The wrestling was infinitely better in 99 though, and that makes those shows watchable in ways that none of the shows from the first two-thirds of 95 WCW were. The WWF had better wrestling in 95 and arguably better booking but the talent they were pushing into key positions were much stronger and more over in 99, to a degree that makes a major difference. Triple H actually lost starpower when he turned heel, but Austin and Rock were there pretty much all year, and close to their peak overness, with Foley being close early in the year. They had the strong debut of Jericho, and Vince was still performing well. Don't get me wrong, I hated 99 WWF and can understand why you'd say 95 was better. The WWF PPVs from 95 are probably more watchable than the 99 ones. However, I still don't see any argument that WCW from December 94-August 95 was better than any other time period for WWF or WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 The Summer was rough but I really liked the WWF TV going into the Fall of 1995. Survivor Series 1995 is a blast. Was that when Watts was booking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 There's something about the era I find literally horrendous. I cannot STAND Shawn during that time. I really think the presentation of Shawn as a male stripper heartthrob was the reason he was such a disappointment as a draw as champion. They did try to humanise him in the run-up to WM 12, but he never really lost his pretty boy image till DX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Yes. The WWF product basically grew up with Generation Y in terms of their presentation in the 80s, early 90s and late 90s. Interestingly enough, the Gen-Y crowd became adults and WWE has sort of floundered (not business wise, but in terms of a clear mission of what they are) since. Those damn Millennials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 The Summer was rough but I really liked the WWF TV going into the Fall of 1995. Survivor Series 1995 is a blast. Was that when Watts was booking? Watts would have booked from late August '95 - late October '95. Although I think they still used a lot of his ideas going into Survivor Series. He wanted Bret as champion, came up with the concept of the Wild Card match, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 In retrospect the post and pre match dancing just killed Shawn. His attire was also painfully uncool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 Other bright WCW spots from 95'... * The matches aren't all there, but aside from Savage/Flair, there's also the Savage/Luger tension. I always liked that Savage and Luger had a "frienemy" thing going on and it felt real because everyone can relate to those friendships where you have two buddies that should get along, but don't and always end up at odds. It was like an ongoing episode of a Disney teen drama starring Sting as "the girl torn between two friends." * Reunion of Horsemen (I love the Pillman/Anderson vs. Sting/Flair match) * Cobra vs. Pittman at Fall Brawl 95'. Maybe my favorite bad match ever. Worth watching if you've never seen it. Absolutely ridiculous. * DDP's overblown, super sized selling. See the matches with the Renegade. * Pillman vs. Wright at GAB 95' is solid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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