Sting v Luger - So few matches?

[BigBadMick]

I was watching Starrcade 89 earlier and it occurred to me that these two, for all the time they spent collectively in JCP/WCW, matched up against each other quite rarely.

 

Thinking about it, Sting came into JCP in late summer 87, but as far as I know didn't wrestle Luger prior to Luger's face turn in December.

 

Their next opportunity was Luger's heel turn in June 89, and - again, as far as I know - they kept away from each other until a brawl at Clash 9 and then wrestled at Starrcade. Luger's face turn and Sting's injury ended any further matches in February 90.

 

Luger's turn in summer 91 made another match inevitable - was Superbrawl 2 the only one in this timespan?

 

I'm less well versed in the multitude of turns and goings on from Sep 95 until March 01 - did they wrestle each other often? Nothing jumps out at me from this period.

[Gregor]

There was that time Elizabeth sprayed Sting with silly string.

[evidence]

They wrestled for the US title on the Saturday Night show in December 1989, ended in DQ.

[shoe]

A lot of it was timing issues. Originally Sting was going to take the belt off Flair in Feb of 90. Sting put over Luger at Starcade 89 to set him up for a feud over the title in 90. The injury occurred and that was that.

[thebrainfollower]

Does anyone know where the 96 angle was supposed to go? It was dropped to turn Luger full face to fight the NWO.

[MarcMadness]

Re-watching Nitros had me wonder the same thing. He turned heel on Hogan and Savage at Havoc, then he came to whisper in Stings ear to get him to break his Scorpion death lock on Nitro, then they played Sting and Luger as friends while Luger was heel with everyone else for a while, had him handcuffed to Jimmy Hart (who he was aligned with?) to watch Stings back in his title match vs Giant, and then the whole thing eventually gets dropped for the nWo angle like you said.

 

I would say they probably had some plan with it but then again....WCW.

[Loss]

I'd like to think there were plans, but it's possible they were just doing what their gimmick was and that's that. They were parodying Sting's overly trusting nature and Luger's too-many-to-count turns all at once.

[flyonthewall2983]

And they were tag team champions for awhile in that timeframe too. I wonder if that's the first time a babyface and heel were a tag team.

 

I think if Luger got the big push to be the main guy in '93, they would have probably hired Steve Borden as someone to work a program with him. From what I gather in interviews, he may have had going North in mind a lot in the 90's. Especially when Hogan was there and grandfathered into his spot as top guy.

[Hawkeye12]

And they were tag team champions for awhile in that timeframe too. I wonder if that's the first time a babyface and heel were a tag team.

 

I think if Luger got the big push to be the main guy in '93, they would have probably hired Steve Borden as someone to work a program with him. From what I gather in interviews, he may have had going North in mind a lot in the 90's. Especially when Hogan was there and grandfathered into his spot as top guy.

I remember a few years back when Sting did a conference call with TNA, he mentioned never having a problem with Hogan coming in to be the top guy because that was best for everyone there. But he did have a problem with Savage coming in later and jumping him as well. He admitted he was given some creative control from that point forward. That likely quelled his worries a great deal and likely made him eager to stay there from that point.

[Loss]

Something Dave has mentioned many times is that Sting had the most envied deal in wrestling because he didn't work as many dates as the WWF guys and he also made more money than most of them. When he saw his peers like Luger, Flair, the Road Warriors and the Steiners jump, he saw them work more, make less money, lessen their stardom and come back. So the idea of him jumping wasn't ever something seriously on the table.

[thebrainfollower]

That is spot on logic Loss. Sting was a smart man staying where he was.

[Wade Garrett]

WTF did Sting ever do to warrant so much legendary status? He's was WCWs top gun in the early to mid 90's? BFD. That's like being a one legged man in an ass kickin contest.

 

I feel Luger got the shitty end of the stick. He was better then Sting in every category and still got the shaft up until the end. At least Hogan through the guy a bone on Monday Nitro though.

[Jingus]

He's was WCWs top gun in the early to mid 90's?

And the late 80s. And the late 90s. He was a big enough deal that the company trusted him in the main event of the first Clash of the Champions, going up against Wrestlemania IV. And he remained a big enough deal that the company gave him the "lifetime achievement award" spot on the final Nitro, main eventing against Flair (which is extra ironic because he wrestled Flair on the first episode of Nitro, six years beforehand). He main evented five different Starrcades (and went over in all but one of the matches). You're pretty severely downplaying him by categorizing his tenure as "the early to mid 90's".

[Wade Garrett]

I watched Sting get an amazing pop in a fuckin minor league baseball stadium in August of 87 (San Jose, CA) before he was even on the radar for JCP. I know what he brought to the table. That was JCP who put him on the map. But the Turner company overestimated his worth/value for fuckin years. He didn't draw. He was a Nikita Koloff 84-86 at best. But a face. Guy shoulda never been positioned as the guy.

 

As for the first COTC in 88. The event itself was the draw. Not Sting. Sting was fresh/hot but Rhodes/JCP was building towards Luger/Flair. Sting was cooled off after the COTC. He remained in the light but it wasn't the brightest of bulbs. The company was FUBAR.

 

As for 89. If ya wanna hang 89 on him be my guest but you'd be wrong. Flair was the guy in 89. Sting was along for the ride post Bash 89. Flair/Funk actually drew that shit for a company money. That's the point ya know. Ain't about vanity. This wasn't an era where promotions like ECW (and it's rasslers) mostly got a pass.

 

The man made a decent dime so good on him. But he's the most overrated leading man on rasslin film.

[Loss]

If you break it down year-by-year, the times when Sting was the #1 guy in WCW are pretty isolated. He was a top guy for a very long time, but the #1 guy? You're talking:

 

- Second half of 1990

- First half of 1992

 

Even most times he was the top babyface, the company was built around the top heel, be it Vader, Flair or Hogan.

[thebrainfollower]

While I agree with you completely Loss, I actually think that fact is in Sting's favor. It's pretty hard to stay even as over as he was when year after year after year you're failing and never getting the job done. We talk about Luger, but Starrcade 97 IMO did more damage to Sting's career than Summerslam 92 did to Lex's.

[funkdoc]

While I agree with you completely Loss, I actually think that fact is in Sting's favor. It's pretty hard to stay even as over as he was when year after year after year you're failing and never getting the job done. We talk about Luger, but Starrcade 97 IMO did more damage to Sting's career than Summerslam 92 did to Lex's.

 

people who've watched the 98 yearbook tend to think otherwise

 

a common sentiment i noticed there was "holy crap sting SUCKED as champion!" a lot of comments on how he lost all emotion & good matches with the crow gimmick, and people even saying hogan was working hard in the ring but being held down by him. just FWIW...

[thebrainfollower]

I remember it as seeming like Sting wrestling like someone who would rather be somewhere else, but I guess I blame that on him realizing Hogan had destroyed his big chance for good at Starrcade. Maybe I'm being unfair.

[JerryvonKramer]

While I agree with you completely Loss, I actually think that fact is in Sting's favor. It's pretty hard to stay even as over as he was when year after year after year you're failing and never getting the job done. We talk about Luger, but Starrcade 97 IMO did more damage to Sting's career than Summerslam 92 did to Lex's.

You mean Summerslam 93.

 

Thing is though, Lex kinda got screwed in 88 (not winning title) and 91 (not beating Flair, turning as he did so) and 94/5 as well (Million Dollar shitcanned midcard crap) and possibly also during Monday Night Wars at least once -- as in he was hot after beating Hogan but only got belt for a day. For Luger it's like any time he gets hot, something happens to fuck him over. Even in 89, he was red hot as heel US champ and then he had to turn again. Then just as he got hot as a face, he turned again.

 

Whereas with Sting it's like any time he gets hot, he's given the ball and proves he can't run with it. Insomuch as 90 and 92 tanked at box office. He wasn't really given the ball in 97.

[thebrainfollower]

So then Parv, do you think Flair went to bat all those times for Sting because he knew this and was being smart? I've always wondered because Flair and co saw something in Sting that's just not there. I watched most PPV's and clashes with your and Chad's podcasts and could not be more in agreement with you guys about Lex Luger. Or is it just, Lex grew up, was a businessman and Flair most definitely is not.

[thebrainfollower]

As to my Summerslam 93 point Lex at that point WASN'T that hot. Sting was the hottest wrestler around until the moment he appeared in the ring. It was so bad when Hogan pinned Sting I said to friends "That's a fake Sting, the real Sting is gonna come down from the rafters now, restart match and DESTROY Hogan".

 

Sting at Starrcade needed to be UT in HITC. A terminator who's gonna destroy the heel, sell NOTHING and make it clear he's enjoying himself doing both at every moment.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think with Sting it's that he was super over with live crowds. Especially in 88 when he was breaking out. They saw potential in that, whereas Lex never generated that sort of electricity.

 

For whatever reason though Sting never translated into box office. And, at least in my view, was never able to capitalise on the sorts of chances he was given, except in 92. I think during 89, 90 and 91 before the injury, he actively struggles to live up to the spot he's in.

 

Luger, on the other hand, from what I've seen and read, translated into box office more. I also think, at least listening to Flair's podcast, that we might have overestimated the degree to which the boys didn't like him. It sounds like they were friendly at least and had banter. 1988 I'm not sure why they didn't put the belt on him. 1991 Flair was insecure and playing hard ball, and being more selfish. You can't really blame him there, he was going to New York. 88 I think they probably thought he was too green to take the big one. And remember NWA was still technically running then. I don't know if WCW can just put the belt on who they want, Kris or someone might be able to confirm. I still think technically there was a vote.

[thebrainfollower]

I am not Kris but I can guarantee that by 88 Crockett could have put the belt on your grandma Parv and there's not a darn thing the NWA could have done about it.

[JerryvonKramer]

I think functionally you are right, but technically there may have been a vote. I dunno.

 

Either way, they dropped the ball in 1988. They also didn't seem to get that territory days were over so NWA champ formula needed to be changed. You can't do Dusty finishes, and never put the babyface over if the champ isn't leaving town. Luger was screwed as much by the failure to change that mentality.

 

It is noticeable though that Luger is the one guy Flair never seemed to put over. But y'know he put over so many people that I don't know if not doing a job is something you can hold against the guy. By which I mean, if they really really wanted to put the belt on Luger, he could have been talked into it.

 

I seem to remember reading also that Flair as champ was part of the turner deal though, which is one reason why the belt didn't get switched. They wanted Flair as top star.

 

I would have put Luger over at gab 88 and have him drop it back by Starrcade, then play 89 out as it was. Nice five month reign for Luger in 88.

[thebrainfollower]

I would have done the same Parv UNLESS there was compelling evidence that Lex was drawing like gangbusters as champ. I might have even tried a double turn at Starrcade and had Flair regain the belt at the next PPV.