Tully/Magnum vs Duggan/DiBiase vs Slaughter/Iron Sheik

[Superstar Sleeze]

What is the best brawl in American pro wrestling history?

I think Tully/Magnum will win and I don't even know if I disagree with that assessment. I just don't think it is an open and shut case.

Surrounding angle: I think Tully/Magnum gets definitively crushed here in my opinion.

Duggan and DiBiase started their feud in 1983 breaking up the Rat Pack and DiBiase joining Skandor's army. They already had badass brawls leading up to this one. DiBiase had lost a loser leaves town match in 83 and when he came back in late 84 it was one of the best angles I have ever seen. DiBiase having laid out Duggan in the parking lot like a coward, we see an extremely bloody Hacksaw cut one of the all time great promos in the crowd with Bill Watts. It was one of the best visuals I have ever seen. Once you add in the tuxedo match and DiBiase smashing Duggan's car in you have the makings of one of the best builds ever. Plus I love how all the stipulations make sense in relation to the build.

 

Slaughter and Sheik features one of my favorite moments ever. After Slaughter/Sheik confrontation on the previous week in the aisleway, the crowd was pumped to see Sgt Slaughter kick some Sheiky baby ass. The next week on TV in Allentown, Sheik kicks Eddie Gilbert's ass and begins to spit on him. The crowd chants for Slaughter and he does not disappoint chasing him off. He cuts a money promo and then leads the crowd in the Pledge of Allegiance. Holy shit! What a moving moment! I got goosebumps watching this in 2015. I think the real beauty of the build is the two MSG matches previous to this that really build to the boot finish in the final match.

Now we come to Magnum/Tully and I will be honest the buildup was pretty meh. I watched pretty much every Tully/Magnum promo from when Tully won the title to Starrcade right before I watched the match and they were entertaining promos, but this was not the next level shit I expected. The tit for tat dressing up as a cop was fun. The breaking of Sam Houston's arm was probably the highlight of the angle. "She likes it!" "She likes it!" angle with Magnum forcing himself on Baby Doll is definitely not timeless and I dont want to ruin anyone's memories, but I did not like a babyface doing those things to a woman. It soured me a little on the angle. It put too much sympathy on Tully and Baby Doll in my opinion. Being objective, there is nothing that Magnum/Tully angle has that touches Duggan/DiBiase and Slaughter/Sheik.

Match Reviews:

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/32332-sgt-slaughter-vs-iron-sheik-wwf-msg-61684/

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/31383-ted-dibiase-vs-hacksaw-jim-duggan-mid-south-new-orleans-32285/

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/32435-nwa-us-champion-tully-blanchard-vs-magnum-ta-nwa-starrcade-1985/

Finish:

 

I think it is really neat that all three of these matches have really definitive, badass payoffs for the babyfaces. That's what separates these matches from Blood In The Sand and other brawls.. It is also cool that each match features a unique weapon to finish the match. For Slaughter/Sheik, the boot, and Duggan/DiBiase is the coal miner's glove both of which were integral elements of the build. Tully/Magnum's wooden stake was not apart of the build, but still fucking awesome and even more brutal than the others.

Feelings:

 

Slaughter vs Sheik is the most pro wrestling like in its execution. There are traditional pro wrestling bumps and spots. There is a shine-heat-comeback. It is the most natural match for a pro wrestling fan to get into. They take it to the next level in terms of violence and satisfaction. In terms of being the best pro wrestling match, I think this features the best pro wrestling.

Duggan vs DiBiase is a great personal feud and the beauty of this match is how every element of the feud is expertly paid off in this. I think Duggan is a great wild man in this match and DiBiase sells being trapped in the cage with a lunatic so well. The Coal Miner's Glove finish is a true beauty and the Loser Leaves Town stip really adds to the finality even though he would come back. It is in my opinion the most feel good of the matches.

 

Magnum vs Tully is disturbing in its violence and realism. It is a pretty radical departure from the pro wrestling formula. I think it is easy to celebrate a match that exceeds or departs from the pro wrestling and becomes even more real. The finish is unlike the other finishes. It is not a feel good moment. You want to shrink away from it because how violent and gruesome it is. It is a match where there is seemingly no winners because Magnum had to become an evil human. You cannot really celebrate what he did. It is a representation of war. There are no good guys or bad guys. There is just survival.

 

Subjectively, I like Magnum vs Tully the least because I believe in the goodness of humanity and believe that pro wrestling does such a great job presenting how the good guys overcome the bad guys. With Magnum/Tully, you lose that feeling celebration and it is just a somber moment. I think Slaughter vs Sheik is my favorite because it is pure pro wrestling hate and violence with a feel good finish. I think Duggan/DiBiase had the best finish, but just does not do it for me bell to bell.

 

Magnum/Tully is the Oscar film, Slaughter/Sheik is the summer blockbuster and DiBiase/Duggan is high-end thriller. I think they are really close, but once you put the whole movie together, I am going with Slaughter/Sheik.

What do you think?

[WingedEagle]

What about Austin/Hart at mania? Perhaps a few others id like to see considered but that will have to wait till not on phone.

[goc]

I really need to watch Sheik/Slaughter but for me I put Duggan/Dibiase over Tully/Magnum. I fucking love Tully and I'd take him over DiBiase just about any other time but the Duggan/DiBiase feud and blow off is pretty much perfect in my eyes.

[Superstar Sleeze]

What about Austin/Hart at mania? Perhaps a few others id like to see considered but that will have to wait till not on phone.

 

Yeah that was pretty presumptuous on my part. I should not have phrased it that way. I really wanted to compare these three because of the great similarities among all three (blood feuds, mid-80s, similar finishes, and violent). Yes, of course they maybe other candidates.

 

Goc, make sure to watch the Allentown TV and two previous MSG matches before the Bootcamp match.

[JimArg]

If I have to pick one of the list, Magnum v Tully, but for me the best brawl in USA history is Dundee v Lawler 12/30/85

[Johnny Sorrow]

Magnum/ Tully isn't the best brawl ever. It's the best match ever.

[Mad Dog]

Magnum/Tully is the standard by which all cage matches should be judged by.

[JerryvonKramer]

I am surprised that this is close in the voting. For me:

 

1. Magnum - Tully: contender for GOAT match period

2. Sheik - Slaughter: contender for GOAT WWF/E match

3. DiBiase - Duggan: one of the best payoffs to a feud ever

 

They are all five star matches for me, but if there was such a thing as 6 stars, Magnum-Tully would get it because it is in the "transcendent" category.

[The Russian Daydream]

I agree with JerryvonKramer here. All three are awesome matches, and judged purely on the basis of the work in the ring, it's quite hard to separate them. There's something about Magnum vs Tully though that goes beyond wrestling. There's such a tenseness there that you can feel while watching it, and it's that 'feeling' that puts it above the other two.

[Smack2k]

All three matches are / were CLASSICS in every sense of the word, but Magnum / Tully has the one extra thing the other two dont....real hatred coming through. These guys looked like they legitimally hated each other and wanted to end the other's career from the minute they step in that cage. "Fuck the fans. Right now, I want to kick your ass and make you quit cause I am better than you and I wanna make you my bitch." Both guys have that on their face before the match starts.

 

The look on Magnum's face at the end of the match says it all. "Fuck you motherfucker, you tried everything to take me out, but guess what? YOU quit, you piece of shit...gimme my belt, I'm out."

 

I dont see that TRUE hatred to really want to hurt the other in either of the other two matches. For that reason, Magnum / Tully goes above the other two and as great as the other two are, its not close with Magnum / Tully...

[Ship Canal]

Seems I'm in the minority and plumped for Sheik/Sarge.

Now don't get me wrong, I ADORE all three of those matches and I'd have no issue with anyone telling me the other two smoke the Bootcamp match. But for me, rewatching Tully vs Magnum recently,, I felt like as a match I can go back to repeatedly, that never loses any of its compact, channeled intensity and hot as fuck crowd connection in that especially intense MSG atmosphere, the Boot Camp match is the one I'd take to a desert island with me if someone put a gun to my head.

I actually think Tully vs Magnum is a better match, and I acknowledge that both the points I've just made about Sheik/Sarge could easily be made about DiBiase/Duggan too, but the multiple stips in that match sometimes make it feel like too much of a novelty, more of a ridiculously fun spectacle than an all out hatefest. But that's a 29 year old bloke from northern England watching in 2015 who wasn't there growing up in the Mid South territory glued to the screen for TV every week, so I maybe read too much into that.

But yeah, the Bootcamp match just keeps this huge level of meaningful action and focused brawling and the heat just seems to escalate until the finish. As much as I love Magnum/Tully, there are parts of the match that operate on an entirely different sort of attritional level there, its very much this unflinching, grim spectacle that is framed (brilliantly) as a step beyond anything that's come before. Its completely singular, but I wouldn't revisit it as much I would the Bootcamp match.

I suppose its similar to the way in which I listen to music or watch films: some of my favourite records or movies are actually not ones I visit an awful lot. I pull them out when I'm in a certain mood. It helps them maintain their mystique or some pretentious shit I guess.

But yeah, I voted for Sheik/Sarge because I just think its this glorious, streamlined thing I can return to regardless of mood, all the time.

All belters though.