Makin a Case for Randy Savage as the Greatest Wrestler Ever

[Grimmas]

http://placetobenation.com/makin-a-case-for-randy-savage-as-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/

Kelly from Titans of Wrestling is here and he is Makin’ a Case for “Macho Man” Randy Savage as the Greatest Wrestler Ever.

On the debut episode, Kelly makes his arguments for Savage and deals with the criticisms. Check out the only podcast completely focused on the Greatest Wrestler Ever poll on prowrestlingonly.com!

[Grimmas]

With this being the first episode I am looking for feedback and where this should go. Any ideas and thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Ricky Jackson]

I had a blast doing this

[supremebve]

My suggestion would to feature someone who is a candidate for #1, but is a little more obscure than Savage/Flair. I'm speaking as someone who was born in the United States in 1981 and has watched wrestling as long as I remember, so my opinion on those guys is already set. I'd like to see the case for guys like Bockwinkel, Jumbo, Fujinami, or anyone who didn't have national exposure for my entire life. It could be the fact that Randy Savage is my favorite wrestler of all time, and not needing any convincing of his place in wrestling, but I'd like to hear some of these on some guys I'm still forming my opinion about. I've seen a decent amount of Jumbo Tsuruta and think he might be a candidate for #1, but in reality I will never be able to have the understanding of his career that I have about guys like Savage. Even if I watched every single Jumbo match, it wouldn't be like watching Randy Savage in real time as a kid. Wresting is an art form that is supposed to connect to the audience on an emotional level. It is hard to recreate those emotions watching random matches from 20-30 years ago. So, if a show like this can fill in the blanks of his career and give me something to think about other than just the nuts and bolts of the matches, I think it could really help people make more informed decisions.

[Grimmas]

My suggestion would to feature someone who is a candidate for #1, but is a little more obscure than Savage/Flair. I'm speaking as someone who was born in the United States in 1981 and has watched wrestling as long as I remember, so my opinion on those guys is already set. I'd like to see the case for guys like Bockwinkel, Jumbo, Fujinami, or anyone who didn't have national exposure for my entire life. It could be the fact that Randy Savage is my favorite wrestler of all time, and not needing any convincing of his place in wrestling, but I'd like to hear some of these on some guys I'm still forming my opinion about. I've seen a decent amount of Jumbo Tsuruta and think he might be a candidate for #1, but in reality I will never be able to have the understanding of his career that I have about guys like Savage. Even if I watched every single Jumbo match, it wouldn't be like watching Randy Savage in real time as a kid. Wresting is an art form that is supposed to connect to the audience on an emotional level. It is hard to recreate those emotions watching random matches from 20-30 years ago. So, if a show like this can fill in the blanks of his career and give me something to think about other than just the nuts and bolts of the matches, I think it could really help people make more informed decisions.

Shows coming soon:

Ricky Steamboat

Jumbo Tsuruta

El Satanico

[supremebve]

 

My suggestion would to feature someone who is a candidate for #1, but is a little more obscure than Savage/Flair. I'm speaking as someone who was born in the United States in 1981 and has watched wrestling as long as I remember, so my opinion on those guys is already set. I'd like to see the case for guys like Bockwinkel, Jumbo, Fujinami, or anyone who didn't have national exposure for my entire life. It could be the fact that Randy Savage is my favorite wrestler of all time, and not needing any convincing of his place in wrestling, but I'd like to hear some of these on some guys I'm still forming my opinion about. I've seen a decent amount of Jumbo Tsuruta and think he might be a candidate for #1, but in reality I will never be able to have the understanding of his career that I have about guys like Savage. Even if I watched every single Jumbo match, it wouldn't be like watching Randy Savage in real time as a kid. Wresting is an art form that is supposed to connect to the audience on an emotional level. It is hard to recreate those emotions watching random matches from 20-30 years ago. So, if a show like this can fill in the blanks of his career and give me something to think about other than just the nuts and bolts of the matches, I think it could really help people make more informed decisions.

Shows coming soon:

Ricky Steamboat

Jumbo Tsuruta

El Satanico

 

Can I request a Fujinami episode? He's the guy I know is good, but have no idea where to start watching. What I've seen from him has all been good, but I've only watched a few of his matches. I don't know any of his biggest feuds, matches, or anything that really keeps me invested in him as a wrestler.

[SomethingSavage]

I'm gonna be all over that Jumbo episode. My interest has always been there (passively), but it was really piqued after hearing Parv and Charles talk him up so much in their recent Fair For Flair show.

 

I've seen matches here & there over the years, but I've admittedly never committed a lot of time or energy into watching Tsuruta's best stuff. As far as puro goes, "my guys" came with the New Japan juniors, Michinoku Pro, 90's All Japan, and peak Hashimoto for the most part.

 

So I'm absolutely stoked to soak up whatever info & history lessons you guys can toss my way regarding Jumbo. Here's hoping for some awesome match recs, playlists, etc.

[Ship Canal]

Listening to the talk of Savage's pre WWF work on this podcast reminded me that one of my all time favourite "match where nothing much actually happens apart from two charismatic blokes being massively charimsatic coz its all they need to do to get over" type situations was the match I caught between Adrian Street and Savage a while back on Youtube. Fairly sure it was Memphis as my memory has Lance Russell commentating but that could just be my memory making shit up.

There's a wonderful bit where Savage gets bored of Streets preening and ritual and goes and sits in the audience and sticks some guys hat on his head as if to say "ready when you are, pal".

Its great.

[thebrainfollower]

Since joining PWO my happiest moments have been learning that both Chad and Kelly have the same favorite match I do, Savage-Warrior from WM VII.

 

Savage's WWF story up to and inc WM VIII is the GOAT wrestling story.

 

Thanks Kelly for convincing me there is a rational intellectual argument to how I wanted to vote. Savage is my GOAT pick for sure.

[JerryvonKramer]

I was a little disappointed that Kelly no sold the 1988 feud with DiBiase. No one ever puts that over, they didn't even mention it here.

[Grimmas]

I was a little disappointed that Kelly no sold the 1988 feud with DiBiase. No one ever puts that over, they didn't even mention it here.

Sorry Parv. Trying to stick to the hour time frame meant something had to be left out.. plus that feud is over rated.

[BigBadMick]

Enjoyed the talk of 'he rehearsed all his matches' criticism. A few things about that -

 

Does anyone ever complain that any of his matches look like they were pre-planned/overly choreographed?

 

Did Meltzer or anyone else bring this complaint among insiders into public discussion? When did this trait become common knowledge?

[JerryvonKramer]

 

I was a little disappointed that Kelly no sold the 1988 feud with DiBiase. No one ever puts that over, they didn't even mention it here.

 

Sorry Parv. Trying to stick to the hour time frame meant something had to be left out.. plus that feud is over rated.

Who rates it? (Apart from me and Dave Melzter circa 1988)

[Grimmas]

 

 

I was a little disappointed that Kelly no sold the 1988 feud with DiBiase. No one ever puts that over, they didn't even mention it here.

Sorry Parv. Trying to stick to the hour time frame meant something had to be left out.. plus that feud is over rated.

Who rates it? (Apart from me and Dave Melzter circa 1988)

 

That's true.

 

I enjoy the series, but it's a series of 3.5 to maybe 4 star matches.

[Judy Bagwell]

I was a little disappointed that Kelly no sold the 1988 feud with DiBiase. No one ever puts that over, they didn't even mention it here.

it wasnt that good if you were not a Dibiase mark. Ted never had a great match in the WWF and it makes me laugh when I hear all his criticism of the Warrior when the Warrior has far more classic WWF matches on his resume than Ted. Was that because of his opponent Ted? then why didnt you carry him to a decent match?

[JerryvonKramer]

I might do a show just looking at that one series, because I really do think it gets a bad rap based primarily on the disappointing WM4 match. I am kind of interested in running through the MSG, Philly and Boston legs. In my mind it is one of the greatest in-ring feuds of 1980s WWF, but it is basically under-sold and under-loved by a lot of fans. Might have to be a solo one though cos I don't know who would want to sit through a dozen or so matches with me. If there's any takers, send me a PM.

[ohtani's jacket]

I can't remember if they had a great match in their series, but I definitely remember enjoying the series as a whole. It doesn't really hold a candle to Savage/Santana or Savage/Steamboat, though, which makes it a non-entry into the greatest in-ring feuds of 1980s WWF.

[Lee]

I've watched the majority of Savage's career for a History of Wrestling book project, and while we agreed that Savage was one of our all-time favourites and probably as good as anybody when he was on, he's also overrated in the sense that most of the praise he gets comes from people having seen all of his great, legendary matches and moments and him being a standout personality.

On the flipside, if you watch him from match to match to match (and I'm sure this is true of mostly everyone), he's incredibly repetitive, and spends a lot of time stalling and farting about at ringside, something he doesn't do so much in those more famous bouts.

Then there's the period after his retirement/divorce where again, he has great matches on the big shows, but just goes through the motions the rest of the time in really uninspired fashion, until he reaches WCW and goes into a shocking decline after the Flair run (save from the DDP series).

One of the things we also found was that he'd come up against someone and you'd think "Oh, this'll be good", whether it was DiBiase, Santana or Steamboat, and it never reached our own perhaps lofty expectations, but contrary to that, we all found the Hogan matches from their first run to be really good when we were expecting something more like the usual Hogan routine.

As far as those other three feuds go, the Steamboat matches are consistently the best, then Santana, then DiBiase. The Honky Ton Man run is pretty average. All of them follow the same basic "three match" booking formula of count outs and DQs building up eventual blowoffs, so comparing them is pretty easy.

--

As far as a Warrior vs. DiBiase debate, I'd agree that Warrior has more classic matches than DiBiase does as far as their WWF runs go, but DiBiase also gave you a good, solid match most of the time, while Warrior was rotten for long periods (Hercules feud, Andre feud, Undertaker feud).

[JerryvonKramer]

Hi Lee, I remeber when we had you on WTBBP back in February 2013. Time flies doesn't it! Ep #36: Wrestlewar 89 if anyone is interested, Jason Mann was on that show too.

 

I'm just interested in how many of those house show matches made Colusieum Home Video? Can you remember how exactly Savage vs. Santana, Savage vs. Steamboat, and Savage vs. DiBiase were packaged?

 

I remember a lot of the DiBiase feud was on the Macho Madness tape, but I don't think they had any of the Philly ones (for example). But did they bung them on a Best of WWF Volume or something like that?

 

Sorry, still a CHV tape nerd and that sort of stuff fascinates me.

[thebrainfollower]

The only Savage - Dibiase matches to make CHV that are not PPV were on the Macho Madness tape. Savage-Steamboat, NONE of them made tape except for a Toronto one that on best of the WWF volume 9. There's some Savage-Santana stuff on The Macho Man and Elizabeth tape and the cage tag is on the best cage matches tape, whatever that was called.

[Childs]

 

 

 

 

My suggestion would to feature someone who is a candidate for #1, but is a little more obscure than Savage/Flair. I'm speaking as someone who was born in the United States in 1981 and has watched wrestling as long as I remember, so my opinion on those guys is already set. I'd like to see the case for guys like Bockwinkel, Jumbo, Fujinami, or anyone who didn't have national exposure for my entire life. It could be the fact that Randy Savage is my favorite wrestler of all time, and not needing any convincing of his place in wrestling, but I'd like to hear some of these on some guys I'm still forming my opinion about. I've seen a decent amount of Jumbo Tsuruta and think he might be a candidate for #1, but in reality I will never be able to have the understanding of his career that I have about guys like Savage. Even if I watched every single Jumbo match, it wouldn't be like watching Randy Savage in real time as a kid. Wresting is an art form that is supposed to connect to the audience on an emotional level. It is hard to recreate those emotions watching random matches from 20-30 years ago. So, if a show like this can fill in the blanks of his career and give me something to think about other than just the nuts and bolts of the matches, I think it could really help people make more informed decisions.

Shows coming soon:

Ricky Steamboat

Jumbo Tsuruta

El Satanico

Can I request a Fujinami episode? He's the guy I know is good, but have no idea where to start watching. What I've seen from him has all been good, but I've only watched a few of his matches. I don't know any of his biggest feuds, matches, or anything that really keeps me invested in him as a wrestler.

I could do a Fujinami episode. He's not my No. 1 but I'd be happy to lay out his case. I know Dylan is a major Fujinami advocate as well.

[Dylan Waco]

I would do a Fujinami show for sure

[Grimmas]

We will hook those up for sure1

[supremebve]

Thanks guys, I can't wait to hear the podcast. One thing that I don't think was relevant for the Savage argument that I'd like to hear in a Fujinami(and others) episode is kind of a breakdown of what is the essential viewing. I'd love to hear the historic analysis and the comparisons to other wrestlers, but I'd like to have some matches to watch that illustrates those points. With Savage and Flair or even Misawa and Kawada, their most relevant matches are kind of in the collective internet wrestling nerd zeitgeist. For some reason Fujinami's career hasn't been discussed and analyzed as much and I have no idea what matches of his that I should seek out.

[GOTNW]

The Choshu matches from 83, his series vs Ryuma Go and the Maeda match from 1986 would be a good place to start with him.