Loss Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Not to mention that the repeated Germans are something guys like Kurt Angle would get criticized for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Last post in his thread has some criticisms I had, though there were some good posts earlier on about why he might be considered to transcend such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Serious question about Brock. How is him eating up opponents okay when guys like Hansen and Brody or Adonis and Murdoch get criticized for it? Is it a matter of him just eating people up being more entertaining to watch or is it something else? The only reason I'm not ranking Brock is that I think he's pretty one dimensional. He can kick ass in a fun way, but I don't see a strong grasp of psychology or the ability to sell or anything like that. I don't see how Brock is demonstrably better than The Road Warriors, who I don't see get much praise as workers. I think Brock is actually a pretty good seller and was also an excellent bumper in his first run. He generally has the initial run of killer offense but rarely does he go a whole match without making his opponent look good. As for the Roadies comparison, he's a vastly greater athlete than either one of them, and that's apparent in every movement he makes. So even if you're only in it for the offense, his offense looks a hell of a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 i think people here are more likely to view modern WWE workers as products of the system, in every aspect of their in-ring behavior. you can point to Rusev blowing off selling the leg to do his video-game taunt before his finisher...that sort of thing would be seen as the worker's initiative in past generations, but nowadays that's just a part of the house style that people have to do. you could definitely argue that Brock is above following the rules and thus blame him more for it, though. he does have a big athletic edge over Hawk & Animal, and i think athleticism is especially important for that type of character. "explosiveness" may be the better word, i think Goldberg & Brock best embody that out of all those types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 The Germans don't bother me, because casual expressions of strength seem perfect for the character. He's a minor god walking among men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 A few points in reply to Loss. Firstly, it's half that he just is that entertaining at kicking the shit out of people, but the other half is that Brock taking all of the match is...a good idea. I'm not sure how to phrase that better, but it is. When people complain about, I don't know, Brody or Mascaras or someone taking all of a match, part of it is the inherent selfishness, but mainly the problem is that selfishness kills the match, because someone so shitty is taking the whole match and the match suffers. People complain less about Hansen guzzling people, because he's awesome and him taking so much of the match makes for awesome matches, as well as being a fit for Hansen's character. Same deal with Brock. I mean, be honest, has anyone watched one of these recent Brock matches and thought "Man I wish Brock would stop beating the shit out of Cena" or "Man I wish Brock would give Roman some more offense" ? Fair play to you if so, but I know I certainly haven't. Brock killing folk is fucking awesome, and makes for awesome matches. It makes perfect sense for the character and how he's positioned that he does so, and he backs it up by performing the way he does. Nobody has yet suffered or looked bad from getting their ass kicked by Brock, nor has he killed matches by taking too much of them. He takes just the right amount. As far as one-dimensional goes, I think that's nonsense. Brock is an amazing seller. Seriously just great at it. Watch him, there is always a moment in every recent match where he has to sell, and he nails it. He's fucking Brock Lesnar who eats dudes for lunch, and yet in every match at some point he'll eat a nearfall or be put in a sub and I actually buy for a split second that he's going to tap or lose, because of how well he's selling it. He might be the best guy I've ever seen at the "wave my hand above the mat trying not to tap" thing. He takes offense like a fucking champ, and is great at selling pain, and also frustration at killing a guy who refuses to die. If you're looking for more traditional pro wrestling talents just have a look at his first run. He worked in a much more recognisable way, and he was still awesome. He bumps his fucking ass off in the most ridiculous ways, ways that should be physically impossible for a guy his size. He's an awesome bumper. He sells his ass off in things like the Undertaker HIAC, Big Show matches, whenever he's called upon to sell big, and he'll also sell for guys like Rey or Tajiri, making them look like a million bucks just by taking their shit before killing them. He's an awesome dick heel in the Eddie feud and match, screaming at Eddie to die and shit. He is able to work a guy like Rey Mysterio, and have a long, believable main event where Rey gets completely credible near falls. That doesn't happen unless Brock is willing and able to sell just enough for Rey's stuff, knowing exactly how much to give him and when to give it. In short I disagree completely that he's one dimensional, can't sell or doesn't show psychology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 It is funny how different this site is from the rest of the internet wrestling community. Here many people will have Big Show, Mark Henry and Sheamus on their lists while people in other places would probably laugh at you if you brought them up as all time Top 100 contenders. Same for Cena. While someone like Kurt Angle outside of here is thought of as a superworker and an all time great while people here acknowledge his flaws and some even think he is terrible. Anyways for me: Locks - Cena, Brock Probably - Dustin, Samoa Joe, Cesaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Locks- Cena, Dustin, Brock, Taker, Nakamura Probables- HHH, Styles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I'm going to do something about Mark Henry before the deadline. (I make so many promises I can't keep) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 "Negative Space: A Play in Sixteen Acts" by Matthew D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 It's your fault for showing me that I was taking for granted that everyone knew what I was talking about without further work on my part. (thought the fact he's apparently on almost no one's list doesn't hurt) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Serious question about Brock. How is him eating up opponents okay when guys like Hansen and Brody or Adonis and Murdoch get criticized for it? Is it a matter of him just eating people up being more entertaining to watch or is it something else? The only reason I'm not ranking Brock is that I think he's pretty one dimensional. He can kick ass in a fun way, but I don't see a strong grasp of psychology or the ability to sell or anything like that. I don't see how Brock is demonstrably better than The Road Warriors, who I don't see get much praise as workers. Adonis and Murdoch guzzle opponents? Never heard that talking point before. Which opponents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 It's your fault for showing me that I was taking for granted that everyone knew what I was talking about without further work on my part. (thought the fact he's apparently on almost no one's list doesn't hurt)eagerly awaiting that explanation too, Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Serious question about Brock. How is him eating up opponents okay when guys like Hansen and Brody or Adonis and Murdoch get criticized for it? Is it a matter of him just eating people up being more entertaining to watch or is it something else? The only reason I'm not ranking Brock is that I think he's pretty one dimensional. He can kick ass in a fun way, but I don't see a strong grasp of psychology or the ability to sell or anything like that. I don't see how Brock is demonstrably better than The Road Warriors, who I don't see get much praise as workers. Adonis and Murdoch guzzle opponents? Never heard that talking point before. Which opponents? That was the common point raised after people watched their matches on the 80s New Japan set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Ah, right. Was it ever brought up as an issue in WWF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I'm wondering how much of that idea comes from their stuff with the Briscos? Jack worked from underneath a lot, I can see him giving a lot to a guy with big offense like Adonis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 It sure pissed off the MSG crowd in that match, if I'm remembering correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Cena, Styles, Rhodes, Joe (Probably at #100), MAYBE Nak, but he's kind of on the edge with a few lost years there. Brock is in a similar situation, but he has so much high end work (which I value highly in the process, even if it's at a low quantity), I might be hard-pressed to keep him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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