WWE TV March 14th to 20th

[anarchistxx]

HHH/Ziggler was clearly booked as a way of getting HHH heat for the Wrestlemania match. Nothing they did was working so far. Guess they figured that the people booing Roman Reigns out the building were the hardcore smart fans...the same fans who idolise Dolph Ziggler. So they have HHH go over Ziggler clean, which has both a kayfabe and real life way of getting Trips heat:

 

1. Kayfabe heat because he destroyed a top babyface clean

2. 'Smart fan' heat because it is HHH using his backstage power yet again to hold down an amazing worker to aggrandize himself

 

Doubt it will work, this section of the audience is resolved to hate RR, even though the kids and women in the crowd were going crazy for him.

[goc]

HHH/Ziggler was clearly booked as a way of getting HHH heat for the Wrestlemania match. Nothing they did was working so far. Guess they figured that the people booing Roman Reigns out the building were the hardcore smart fans...the same fans who idolise Dolph Ziggler. So they have HHH go over Ziggler clean, which has both a kayfabe and real life way of getting Trips heat:

 

1. Kayfabe heat because he destroyed a top babyface clean

2. 'Smart fan' heat because it is HHH using his backstage power yet again to hold down an amazing worker to aggrandize himself

 

Doubt it will work, this section of the audience is resolved to hate RR, even though the kids and women in the crowd were going crazy for him.

Anyone who thinks that Dolph Ziggler is better than Reigns, much less an "amazing worker", deserves to get trolled by WWE.

[DMJ]

I think it's important to note too that the Ziggler Bandwagon is much smaller than it was at 6 months ago, let alone a year and a half/two years ago. Was it 2013 when Ziggler was getting cheered over ADR in their title feud? There was also Survivor Series 2014. Either could be seen as his peak popularity (and I might even say his "IWC peak" was the feud with Cena around Royal Rumble '13 (?). Just.a month ago, Ziggler got a mild-at-best response in his hometown - not exactly the sign of a guy that people are still behind. I don't think he's at Zach Ryder/Damien Sandow level of nobody caring about him anymore, but he's heading in that direction.

 

It's not dissimilar to Ambrose. I think he was at his hottest around SummerSlam 2014 and it has just been a slow decline since. If Lesnar/Ambrose had been promoted in September 2014, I think it would've drawn huge interest, even from casuals as Lesnar was coming off the Cena squash and Ambrose was getting called "The Next Austin" (before all his in-ring flaws, inexperience, and bad scripts he was handed made that comparison laughable). In April 2016, the match is generating no buzz as far as I know.

[Strummer]

Ambrose was getting incredible reactions in summer 2014 but they cooled off his program with Rollins because they wanted Reigns to be the guy to finally beat Seth. Then Reigns got hurt and Ambrose was moved to Wyatt without ever beating Rollins

[Slasher]

Losing because of a hologram and losing because of a television set didn't do him a favor with the fans either. Also he wasn't allowed to beat Rollins in any meaningful way when they revisited their feud the following year. I can't even remember the last time Ambrose actually got out of his feuds a winner. Probably when he was part of the Shield and they kicked Evolution's asses. This was 2 years ago. Not a good way to push him at all.

[goc]

I'm not a Dean fan at all but they really did give him two AWFUL finishes right on top of each other.

 

 

[Parties]

This most recent run for Jericho has been awful, to the point that I want to believe he's doing some kind of uber-ECW Foley worked shoot where he has bad workrate matches to get heel heat. That said, if Lil' Naitch couldn't deduce that moments after an ankle break wasn't the best time to check Neville's shoulders, then most of the blame is on him. Jericho is a diva and shouting "You ruined my match!" or whatever it was speaks volumes about his "veteran" status. If anything Robinson's decision in the moment speaks to how whipped/conditioned people are there to follow Vince's OCD commandments, even if it means tanking a match.

 

I find the smarkitude of most crowds pretty lame, but if you're someone who paid thousands of dollars six months ahead of time to attend Mania, you have every right to throw rotten tomatoes at what this card looks like on paper. ("But maybe it'll pleasantly surprise us! Mania usually does." Yes, sure, good, agreed.)

[joeg]

I think the crowd reaction that Ziggler gets shows that no matter what anybody says, wins and losses matter. If a guy is treated like he doesn't matter in the booking and looses the majority of his matches, the crowd starts to react to the guy like he doesn't matter. I honestly can't think of anybody other than maybe the Big Show, who has lost more often then Ziggler in the past 4 or 5 years. Wins matter, look at guys like Taz in ECW, he spent the better part of 2 years running through everybody and despite being 5'8 and pudgy fans bought into him being a badass. Despite Ziggler being a legit badass who holds NCAA records for most pins in a career and in a season, he looses so often that his crowd reaction is usually apathy and indifference.

[Parties]

DVDVR did that "Fantasy WWE" game a few years ago (I wanna say b/w 2011-2012 leading up to Mania) in which you had to picked workers and then received points based on your crew's W-L record, the placement of their segment within quarter hours, whether they main evented, whether their music plays as segment's end, whether they walked tall after a confrontation/segment, etc. It was actually really well executed and told you a lot about who WWE really valued and how. Ziggler was either the guy with the worst stats or close to it. He was made to look inferior constantly: even beyond the endless jobbing, they also bury him in all the subtler ways. He's still his own worst enemy, but it is amazing that he's in this spot of being Chief Jobber who loses a long singles on every RAW, as if he's the guy who gets shot out of the cannon every night at the circus.

[Slasher]

I think the crowd reaction that Ziggler gets shows that no matter what anybody says, wins and losses matter. If a guy is treated like he doesn't matter in the booking and looses the majority of his matches, the crowd starts to react to the guy like he doesn't matter. I honestly can't think of anybody other than maybe the Big Show, who has lost more often then Ziggler in the past 4 or 5 years. Wins matter, look at guys like Taz in ECW, he spent the better part of 2 years running through everybody and despite being 5'8 and pudgy fans bought into him being a badass. Despite Ziggler being a legit badass who holds NCAA records for most pins in a career and in a season, he looses so often that his crowd reaction is usually apathy and indifference.

Wait...is this so surprising? They have spent years (YEARS) booking Ziggler as if he doesn't matter and he's proof wins and losses matter? Err...no. Ziggler is being presented as a jobber and the fans have been beaten down to the point they gave up on Ziggler and they don't expect anything for him anymore. Look at someone like Mick Foley. He jobbed all the time but the difference was he was being presented as a guy who was important and was a potential game changer for them. He was a crazy son of a bitch who would kill himself if it meant an opportunity to kill his opponent at the same time. Main eventers like Taker, Rock, Austin and even Triple H acted like guys who believed Foley could beat them in the right circumstances and it was up to them being at the top of their game if they had any hopes of winning. What about Dean Ambrose? Name one feud that he's ever won. You'd have to go back to a tv program that didn't matter or back to when he was in the Shield beating Evolution. But Ambrose is being booked as a guy who's always an inch short of winning any matches and feuds. The WWE treats Ambrose like a guy who matters for the most part. He has been able to stay over as a result (and his personality helps). The only time they accidentally booked Ziggler to look good (Survivor Series 2014) the fans were ready to see him run with the ball. So its not wins or losses mattering, it's just presentation that matters.

[SomethingSavage]

It definitely felt different at the time that it actually happened, but I don't believe the Survivor Series finish was ever designed to do anything for Dolph anyway.

 

Without Reigns going down to injury that Fall, I doubt Dolph would have ever fallen into that spot in the first place.

 

But it certainly seemed like they were stuck on keeping Ziggler involved in the mid-card mix - linking him right back up with Luke Harper and the IC Title as his followup program.

[Slasher]

Well that is why I used the term "accidentally", of course there was no real intention to start something for Ziggler off that match. He was immediately shuffled right back down the card and the accomplishment was pretty much nullified with Rollins bullying Cena into restoring the Authority back in their position. And they pretty much made it look like Ziggler only won because Sting got involved. This is evident when Triple H pretty much brushed Ziggler off and went after Sting instead. But for so long the fans supported Ziggler even with how they have booked him but nowadays they've gotten tired of it and now they are looking for other guys who might, just might, reward their interest with a decent push for the guy. Wins and losses only matter when it comes to begrudgingly accepting Triple H as a WWE legend and icon pretty much solely because he keeps booking himself to be the King of Kings and very rarely ever losing in his career as an active wrestler or when it comes to desperately wanting to see a guy like Daniel Bryan be pushed at the level they think he deserved to be and utterly rejecting all the company's attempts to have him be ultimately a loser.

[Loss]

Last year, there was talk before the Andre The Giant battle royal of having Ziggler win just to make the live crowd happy, but not to give him a push off of it or anything. So they know he's over and just don't want him to be. The "brass ring" talk is Vince's greatest work in some ways, although no one is buying it but him.

[Slasher]

I think its something he says to try to keep people motivated to be the best versions of themselves so that he would have a chest full of useful and functioning toys that he can play with. The biggest issue is that in order to grab the brass ring you have to create an indisposable brand for yourself and getting over at a certain level that it's a no brainer you should be pushed a certain way, but doing that runs directly in conflict with their philosophy that the only marketable brand they want is "WWE". So Vince runs around putting out fires where guys are getting too over and then laments that no one is a star.

[Matt D]

Isn't the deal with Ziggler that they tell him to work a certain way and he doesn't?

[fakeplastictrees]

Last year, there was talk before the Andre The Giant battle royal of having Ziggler win just to make the live crowd happy, but not to give him a push off of it or anything. So they know he's over and just don't want him to be. The "brass ring" talk is Vince's greatest work in some ways, although no one is buying it but him.

 

The cake is a lie!

 

My two favorite old man carny talking points over the last twenty years or so involve both the internet and the brass ring and all of its modifiers. The fact that men in their 50's, 60's, and 70's,in 2016, are conning people in their 20's and 30's into believing that the 'brass ring' talking point and the 'internet is a bad place' double-speaking is legit, is just completely fascinating.

[joeg]

You hear guys like Austin, CM Punk, and Foley say that the only way to be a main guy in the WWE is for Vince to be a personal fan of your work, which is understandable. So when a wrestler is popular or one of my personal favorites, yet the company does nothing with them, I am frustrated like everybody else, but I try and chalk it up to that possibly.

[hammerva]

So after watching Smackdown is it safe to assume that AJ Styles will be pretty much nothing but an upper mid carder in this company. He will win some secondary titles hell maybe even at WM this year but the idea that he will be on the level of Reigns, Cena, and Triple H seems like a fantasy right now

[Childs]

So after watching Smackdown is it safe to assume that AJ Styles will be pretty much nothing but an upper mid carder in this company. He will win some secondary titles hell maybe even at WM this year but the idea that he will be on the level of Reigns, Cena, and Triple H seems like a fantasy right now

Anyone who ever expected that was living in fantasy land.

[goc]

Thinking that WWE signed a 38 year old guy to immediately put him at the very top seems like the real fantasy. He's gotten a lot of TV time since he debuted and is in a good position it's really silly if anyone thought something like he was going to win the Royal Rumble in his first appearance in the company and then main event WrestleMania.

 

EDIT:Childs beat me to the punch.

[joeg]

I ranted awhile ago about this. They brought AJ in to be just another mid card guy. When he signed I assumed it was because of how many people were out. I also wrongfully assumed/hoped that he would be somebody they would feed to Cena, Reigns, Ambrose, etc. I kind of expected him to have a run as a top heel like Del Rio, Sheamus, Wyatt, etc. I kind of expected it to be like when I was a kid and they would bring in somebody like Bossman, Earthquake, Kamala, One Man Gang, etc and they would have a nice little run going against Hogan before Hogan moved onto Andre, Savage, Warrior or whoever. Which was sort of AJs role in NJPW.

[goc]

So AJ coming in and losing his first feud(s) would have been better than them pretty much making Smackdown the AJ Styles show and building him by winning the Jericho feud? A feud that is essentially the only actually interesting story they have going right now. He's "just another midcard dude" yet gets more TV time and focus than the guys you listed like Del Rio, Sheamus and Wyatt.

[Matt D]

It was a minor miracle (and maybe a mistake) that he didn't just end up on NXT in the first place. If there weren't so many main roster injuries, he probably would have.

[Loss]

I thought the idea was that in signing a top talent at 38 years old, they needed to push him to the top immediately to ensure they got some type of return on their investment.

[anarchistxx]

Skimmed through SD.

 

- Roman Reigns is a star. Anyone pretending otherwise is pretty misguided. He always gets a reaction, negative or positive. He has an aura. Promo was excellent, they kept it short and sharp and he looked like a laid back tough as fuck badass, which is how he should be booked.

 

- AJ Styles looks like shit. Definitely up there with Shawn Michaels at Survivor Series 2002 for the worst hair cut ever seen in a WWE ring. Lank, no shape. Not flattering at all, and isn't going to help him get over.

 

- Kevin Owens is a horrendous promo. So awkward. He also has one of the worst looks on the roster.

 

- WWE has ridiculous resources, a huge creative team and a big roster. So why the fuck do they fill their second flagship show with clips, adverts and fifteen minutes of a meaningless Ryback match on Raw? Seriously, what is the point in it?

 

- Bizarre to see Bubba Ray Dudley vs Goldust on WWE television in 2016. Was a nice little match, they did the simple things really well. Scary how much more competent these two seem than almost all of the people who have joined the roster in the last five years. Subtle glances and facial expressions, character work, touches that manipulate the crowd, pacing, structure, the way it was all laid out, the way they played their respective roles. Most notably how it all seemed really natural, which is something the modern workers seem to struggle with.

 

- Charlotte isn't a great promo. She has potential but feels like she is reading off a script and trying to remember her lines. Not sure this three way dance at Wrestlemania has been built up well at all. Maybe because I don't know who the fuck Sasha or Becky are.

 

- They are trying so hard to make Dean Ambrose the new Steve Austin. Feels so forced. He is overexposed as well - we don't need to hear him cut a promo every week.

 

- Main event was poor. No structure, no build, no intelligent wrestling. Not sure if these messy, meaningless, structureless workrate matches are better or worse than watching Randy Orton work a formula and sit in rest holds for the majority of fifteen minutes before they start trading finishers on the stretch.

 

Skipped everything else, life is too short to watch The Miz or New Day promos.

 

They need a brand split again if SD is to feel the least bit important. Give it a new, distinctive look and a new roster. A belt as well - not like when there were two world titles, more like a title that is the top strap on the brand but still inferior to the main belt. Move a ton of the workrate guys over. People are going to be less rebellious against WWE booking if Dolph Ziggler, Dean Ambrose, AJ Styles and whoever are getting shine on their own brand rather than playing second fiddle on Raw with horrible booking.