sek69 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Dude, I just converted over a year's worth of WCW TV. Hell, they would go weeks without having a feature matchup... and when a matchup between 2 contenders occurred, there wasn't even a guarantee the matches would be good. That is why it is such a shame that Bill Watts went out of business. His Mid South/ UWF TV was some of the most compelling TV around while always featuring premium talent against each other. Watts didn't have any PPVs to build up either, just the Superdome shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Are you implying Watts had it easier or harder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Watts' 1980s business model and Vince's 2005 business model are so completely different that it's hard to compare them. Watts wasn't in the pay-per-view business, and television was just an infomercial to promote his core product, which was house shows. Vince McMahon's business model is based on television ratings and PPV buy rates, with house shows actually serving as a loss leader. I think there are different elements in play in successfully hyping a pay-per-view and successfully hyping a non-televised house show, and I should start a thread about it some time when I've had time to think it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I know you were discussing business models but I was discussing the quality of the TV shows. When WCW was featuring big main events in their TV and WWF followed suit, both companies were really just following what Watts had already done in the 80s. Watts TV was just as likely to feature a big match at the beginning of the show as they would at the end. I really want to find out what sek was implying since it didn't really fit in with what I was getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 It does play into it though, because with WWE's entire audience having access to everything they do, it's much easier to overexpose talent. In Mid South, they could hype a huge show in Houston and a huge show in New Orleans featuring largely the same talent in the same spots, both would do well, and it wouldn't burn anyone out at all. WWE can't hide things from their audience like Mid South could. I think Watts had it more difficult in some ways and easier in other ways. I think a better comparison is Crockett to Vince, but Crockett's style even had more in common with Watts than 2006 WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 It would be interesting to see/discuss the effects of technology on professional wrestling and how it influenced wrestlers, the wrestling, the presentation, the business model, etc. and whether or not the changes in wrestling were a result of the influence of technology, or just a natural evolutionary process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I've actually thought a lot about that very subject lately. I'd like to see *more* Internet interaction, but with more kayfabe on the Internet. Use every form of media possible to tell stories. Have wrestlers insult each other on their blogs, insult each other in print, etc. WWE has been better at globalizing their product for modern times than any other company has ever come close to, really, but there's still a world of room for improvement. The approach is still very sectionalized -- magazines push storylines hard that are forgotten or downplayed on the air; the website has a detached feel from the company instead of being used as a tool to promote their agenda. Bringing in a third party to evaluate the workflow and communication between departments might not be a bad idea. The point remains, however, that with wrestling in a virtually powerless position these days on TV, they aren't censored at all in print or on the Internet, and they should use that to their advantage. It would take what would practically be a reinvention of the wheel and it would involve a lot of annoying naysayers who fear change, but I think multimedia storylines (that agree with each other and are organized by the same writer or group of writers) has potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Which still doesn't address that I was talking about their kick-ass TV program that played in all of their markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Which still doesn't address that I was talking about their kick-ass TV program that played in all of their markets. For the most part. There were those matches that aired on the Houston show that didn't air everywhere, and they had more than one TV show every week at some points, and not every market received both shows with all the exact same material. Even if they did, no one cared about ratings then to the degree they do now, so it's not a good comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 What I was referring to is that Watts having big name matches on TV didn't cost him any money since he didn't run PPVs. Having big name TV matches only helped houseshows, which was his bread and butter. Watts could have a loaded TV show every week, if WWE or TNA does it now they're blowing a potential PPV main event that could earn them money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I still think Watts showed some stuff on TV that surprised me at times. Terry Taylor won the North American title from Ted DiBiase in a studio match. Wouldn't the title change have made more sense at the Superdome or at a larger venue? He also lost it on TV, although at that point, the belt was a prop to set up Taylor/Flair at the Superdome anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 And most (but not all) of the time, the big matches on TV didn't feature clean finishes or they were still in progress when the show went off the air, selling the idea that if you wanted to see one of these matches in full, you'd have to buy a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/1867520/ That amuses me on many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 So I'm watching a Danielson-Gibson match from PWG. Gibson's trying a verticle suplex on Danielson, and right at the apex of it, Danielson cracks him in the head with a knee to block it. That was nifty, I declare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Joey Styles was given his ?Welcome To WWE? talk before Raw this week from Vince McMahon. He was told about what things he needs to change, and that he has a long way to go before being a great WWE announcer. Joey has been much less vocal about things he disapproves of in WWE since he joined the company. Right now it looks like Joey is in a position where he?s wondering what he got himself in to. He?s starting to feel the heat from Vince McMahon, and right now it is possible that Joey Styles will not be the permanent announcer of RAW if Vince decides he doesn?t like his style JR was the master of getting over everyone but who was in the ring. Joey doesn't do that. Maybe that's his distance to go before becoming a great "WWE announcer"...which sucks because he's the best ACTUAL announcer around today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Meltzer and Cornette have mentioned the wrestling bear a few times on the Wrestling Gold set. Anyone actually seen or have one of these matches on tape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think there's footage of the bear wrestling The Destroyer, available through Destroyer's website. I'm not sure about that, though. Cornette's quip that the bear was better than Kevin Nash was humorous (and probably true). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Man, how bad did your career have to be to job to the wrestling bear? EDIT: I think I've enjoyed Meltzer and Cornette's commentary more than the actual matches so far in that set. I think a lot of the current online posters should be forced to sit there and listen to it so they can actually learn something about what wrestling used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Most of the time the guy wrestling the bear was the bear's trainer, so he'd know what he could do without getting mauled to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Ha, I should've watched the next disc before asking if there was any footage. They had one on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think there's footage of the bear wrestling The Destroyer, available through Destroyer's website. I'm not sure about that, though. Cornette's quip that the bear was better than Kevin Nash was humorous (and probably true). I've seen Beyer have two matches with Victor the Bear. And Victor the Bear is a better worker than most wrestlers currently. Here's the footage from Destroyer's website (in Real format): As the Destroyer: http://www.thedestroyer.com/real/TheDest.rm As Doctor X: http://www.thedestroyer.com/real/TheDoc.rm I remember Dick's commentary on the clips being pretty funny, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 I was wandering around over at Obsessedwithwrestling.com and I think I'm pretty confident Ray Gordy will have a good career with WWE. Why to I feel this way? He knows to impress the right people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted January 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 I remember reading about Roddy Piper having to wrestle a bear in his book. Someone put honey on his trunks or something so the bear was licking his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cam Chaos Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Steph's nose looks like that of a McBeth witch. As her ear appears to be evaporating, maybe she is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 The whole "Cena needs to drop the title" nonsense is getting more insane by the day. The fact is Cena's getting more reaction than anyone on the roster, even if it's not the intended one. He's already acknowledged in promos that half the crowd hates him, they'd be better off turning him heel than having him drop the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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