Current Lucha Talk

[Sean Liska]

Any thoughts on this Psycho Clown-Dr Wagner TripleMania match? They announced it a year ahead of time and seem to be hyping it all the time on their TV show, even though it's six months away. The last two TV shows each had about 20 minutes devoted to it. It might end up being the most hyped match ever and presumably will be one of the bigger lucha matches of all-time.

[Matt D]

1.) I'll believe it when I see it.

2.) I'm not going to go out of my way to watch it if it actually does happen, so I never have to see nor believe it anyway.

[Grimmas]

Won't be close to UG vs Atlantis. I do love big mask matches so I am excited.

[Matt D]

This isn't current but this channel's been posting stuff for about two weeks and someone should take a look at it. I just don't have time. Some 90s stuff from Nueva Arena San Luis

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6KVUK9heGjBkcjfa00tqYw/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

[El-P]

Ku Klux Klan I vs Ku Klux Klan II. WHO THE FUCK DO YOU CHEER FOR ??!!!

[Sean Liska]

Watching last night's show and it's been pretty great. Our segunda was REY COMETA, GUERRERO MAYA Y PEGASSO vs EL SAGRADO, PÓLVORA Y MISTERIOSO and it was a bunch of fun. Then we had NIEBLA ROJA, ÁNGEL DE ORO Y SOBERANO vs SANSÓN, CUATRERO Y FORASTERO and this was also great, the future is bright for CMLL is terms of work with all these good young workers. Just keep WWE away. The Dinamitas are going to be the next big rudo trio for CMLL and should be involved in many quality matches.

 

Next up is a match forwarding the Casas-Adonis feud. The "Negro" chants and pops when he makes comebacks are so great. This isn't the in-ring highlight of Negro's career but to hear the response for him against this dirty Trump-loving rudo who took Blue Panther's hair is so cool after all these years.

[Sean Liska]

Main event was a fun tecnico-tecnico modern CMLL epic. Thought it was the best show of the year. Been watching a bunch of 2000 CMLL lately and you have to respect how this company just moves forward, week after week, year after year, decade after decade, with generally good to great stuff. They've never gotten enough recognition for that.

[Cap]

I hate to be that cherrypicker (but that is just the reality of my watching of modern lucha right now).

 

I am kinda digging into what has been going on this year. I have seen a hand full of top/hyped matches, but I am looking for recommendations. I would obviously love stuff that is readily available via the interwebs, but I am not opposed to paying for my wrestling.

 

Specifically, are there any Black Terry gems from this year out there? I saw the handheld of his match with Rush that I really liked, but I was wondering if he has anything this year at the level of his matches vs Wotan, El Barbara, or Aero Boy from last year.

[Mrzfn]

I don't know a ton about Black Terry yet but he had what I thought was a really good tag match with Negro Navarro against Hechicero and Virus in Lucha Memes. I think it's up on youtube and was actually professionally done, not a handheld.

[NintendoLogic]

Ku Klux Klan I vs Ku Klux Klan II. WHO THE FUCK DO YOU CHEER FOR ??!!!

 

And shouldn't they be wearing white instead of red?

[EricR]

From what we've seen so far, these are our favorite Terry matches of the year:

 

vs. Demus 3:16

 

w/ Diablo Jr. vs. Veneno/Chicano

 

w/ Negro Navarro vs. Blue Panther/The Panther

 

w/ Diablo Jr. vs. Traumas

 

Matches all linked in review, should still work

[Cap]

From what we've seen so far, these are our favorite Terry matches of the year:

 

vs. Demus 3:16

 

w/ Diablo Jr. vs. Veneno/Chicano

 

w/ Negro Navarro vs. Blue Panther/The Panther

 

w/ Diablo Jr. vs. Traumas

 

Matches all linked in review, should still work

Thanks.... I'll get on those soon.

[Sean Liska]

We don't talk enough about CMLL on here! It's the last real territory - beating Memphis by 20 years now. They run the same 3 cities every week. They've been running the same big building every week for 60 years. It's like I'm watching a 1979 MSG show except it's 2018.

 

We've got a mascara con mascara headliner in Arena Mexico tonight. CMLL's second or third biggest show of the year. - Homenaje a Dos Leyandas. They're honoring Salvador Lutteroth and Mil Mascaras tonight. Say what you want about CMLL's current style, there's nothing in wrestling like a mask match at Arena Mexico, it's like a World Series at Fenway or Wrigley or something, you can't replicate that history. Yes if you watch too many Ultimo Guerrero main events its the same thing over and over again but there's a lot of fun creative stuff from the young guys on the cards too,

 

From thecubsfan's VOW preview - "CMLL Homenaje a Dos Leyendas airs Friday at 9:30pm CT. (Mexico has not yet begun Daylights Savings Time.) The show is an iPPV on at https://www.internetv.tv/index.php?r...roduct_id=1402.. It costs 100 Mexican Pesos if you’re purchasing from a Mexican IP, and $10 USD if you’re elsewhere. The show will be available to watch on VOD, though it seemed to disappear from their library a few days after the last iPPV aired. Matches from this show will eventually air on Azteca USA’s Lucha Azteca show on April 1st.."

Here's the lineup.

HOMENAJE A DOS LEYENDAS:

DON SALVADOR LUTTEROTH Y MIL MÁSCARAS

LUCHA ESTELAR

MÁSCARA CONTRA MÁSCARA

ÁNGEL DE ORO

vs

EL CUATRERO

LUCHA SEMIFINAL

GRAN FINAL POR EL CAMPEONATO MUNDIAL

DE PAREJAS VERSIÓN CMLL

VOLADOR JR. Y EL VALIENTE

vs

EL TERRIBLE Y REY BUCANERO

EVENTO ESPECIAL

ATLANTIS, MATT TAVEN Y NIEBLA ROJA

vs

ÚLTIMO GUERRERO, EUFORIA Y GRAN GUERRERO

TERCERA LUCHA

¡ SENSACIONAL ENCUENTRO DE DINASTÍAS !

RUSH, MÍSTICO Y DRAGON LEE

vs

MÁSCARA AÑO 2000, SANSÓN Y FORASTERO

SEGUNDA LUCHA

MARCELA, PRINCESA SUGEHIT Y KAHO KOBAYASHI

vs

DALYS, ZEUXIS Y SEDUCTORA

PRIMERA LUCHA

AUDAZ, FLYER Y STAR JR.

vs

TEMPLARIO, VIRUS Y DISTURBIO

[HeadCheese]

A super fun match

[El-P]

That lucha talk didn't exactly catch up...

I was about to watch NJPW's Fantastica Mania cards from Korakuen, then realized I didn't know jackshit about the CMLL guys. And since CMLL shows are on Youtube now, wy the hell not watch them to get a bit more familiar.

From the 01/07 show, I enjoyed Fenix & Penta & Dragon Lee vs Templario & Cuatrero & Forastero quite a bit. Fun to see the Lucha Bros in a straight lucha libre format (you know the drill, that odd pacing, three falls worked in formulaic ways... damn, it's like I'm trolling the trve lvcha fans out there). Templario impressed me. Cuatrero, not as much. I'd call this very good, and the post-match angle was promising. I'm all for a Penta vs Dragon Lee match.

The main event was odd, to me. Great looking work between Caristico (the guy WWE never managed to get over because he had a "big head" and "didn't know how to work" and "didn't speak English"...) and Ultimo Guerrero, but after a quick first fall, it ended up from nowhere with a foul. What ? Ten minutes or less of superb looking work, but as a main event, it was kinda puzzling... Then again, I'm not familiar with the lucha ways...

[sek69]

Usually a program leading to a big mask match will have a lot of foul and/or mask ripping DQs as part of the build. 

Cuartero/Forastero/Sanson are the New Generation Dinamitas and should be the next top stars (I say should because CMLL could CMLL at any time).

 

Also I watched the AAA show on Twitch the other night. Wagner dyed his hair and beard black, and he's gone from looking like The Most Interesting Man in the World to looking like Rocky Romero's dad. 

[TheDuke]

I saw that CMLL seems to post full episodes of their show on their YouTube channel, and was interested after watching the Andrade/Mysterio match in watching some 2014-2015 CMLL episodes during the time La Sombra was in Los Ingobernables. This would be during the early days of that stable. I don't really know much about the original version of Los Ingobernables and thought it might be enjoyable to see how it started since CMLL seems to upload everything to YouTube anyway. However, I'm not entirely sure how to navigate to the episodes I want to see without scrolling through 4-5 years worth of YouTube uploads as searching  "Abril 2014" in their video section doesn't seem to help.

[Grimmas]

I couldn't tell you, but Sombra in CMLL was fucking great. Check out his mask matches at the Anniversary Shows for some of the best stuff ever. 

You might want to try thecubsfan on youtube. Everything is posted there as separate matches going back years, instead of full shows. It might be easier to navigate.

[Tim Cooke]

Sombra was involved in 3 mask matches on Anniversary cards. The first was a 14-man cage match that did come down to him and Olimpico but that wasn't very good and I haven't seen anyone praise it.

The next was the Volador match which was spotty at the time and probably holds up even less since the spots aren’t that impressive six years later.

The Atlantis match is a classic (or at least a top lucha match of this decade). 

[Matt D]

I put this together, but it's more of the beginning stuff than the end stuff.

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2016/04/sombra-manny-andrade-spotlight-master.html?_sm_au_=iVVq4081PM2HVHMM

Honestly, you ought to use this: http://www.luchadb.com/roster/matchfinder.php

Just put in Sombra, la and a start date of sometime in 2014 with only matches with videos. Watch the title matches or the main event matches with Rush/Mascara/Sombra as a trios. 

[El-P]

On 1/21/2019 at 10:33 PM, sek69 said:

Also I watched the AAA show on Twitch the other night. Wagner dyed his hair and beard black, and he's gone from looking like The Most Interesting Man in the World to looking like Rocky Romero's dad. 

I actually kind cracked up when he took off his mask, because he looks exactly like you said. WTF ? I guess he wants to look younger or something. Did Blue Demon call him a mediocre luchador ? The irony...

I don't mind a AAA show once in a while. It's always such a hot mess... Intergender matches. Clowns masks galore. Garbage matches. Two La Parkas. Plus a La Parka Negra. Shitty looks and... Dave the Clown ? Really ? And bad announcing (yeah, you can feel it despite not speaking spanish), camera missing spots... I wonder how that company managed to be that bad with so much consistency for so long...

Well, the first two trios matches I enjoyed. From there it was not very good at all (though never boring, except the awful four way) until the main event. Which wasn't good either, but had a train wreck appeal to it. Also, El Hijo de la Parka sounds like a kid (which he is, but it kinda kills the gimmick).

One thing, neither CMLL nor AAA give a fuck about copyrights I guess. There's no way they have the rights to all those classic songs.

(Oh, and fuck the Shield for making bulletproof vests fashionable. I hate it. I hated it when Bossman came back in 99 with that look. It's not only a bad look, but it makes the body shots look stupid. Callihan at least does the deal where his opponent open it to chop him, but still...)

[sek69]

I've long stated that ECW never died, it just moved to Mexico to become AAA (yes I know the timeline doesn't match for that, but it's the most apt comparison I can think of). 

It's also fun for the whole Konnan/Vamp power struggle that has both been a storyline and real life for seemingly forever. Plus it's always funny to see the sum of Konnan's creative ideas amount to "put everyone in a stable" until there's a thousand nWo B Teams running around.

 

25 minutes ago, El-P said:

One thing, neither CMLL nor AAA give a fuck about copyrights I guess. There's no way they have the rights to all those classic songs.

It's a Mexico thing to be fair. It's still very much like it was in the 70s and 80s US territories where everyone used popular songs and no one cared because wrestling. 

[El-P]

17 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I've long stated that ECW never died, it just moved to Mexico to become AAA (yes I know the timeline doesn't match for that, but it's the most apt comparison I can think of). 

ECW 1999 then, when it became tired, past its prime and cliché already, with the occasional really good match. But yeah, the trainwrecky, not boring aspect of it reeks of the 90's.

18 minutes ago, sek69 said:

It's also fun for the whole Konnan/Vamp power struggle that has both been a storyline and real life for seemingly forever. Plus it's always funny to see the sum of Konnan's creative ideas amount to "put everyone in a stable" until there's a thousand nWo B Teams running around.

All stables and no good match make Konnan a dull booker. All stables and no good match make Konnan a dull booker. All stables and no good match make Konnan a dull booker.

All stables and no good match make Konnan a dull booker. All stables and no good match make Konnan a dull booker. All stables and no good match make Konnan a dull booker.

[aaeo_]

On 1/24/2019 at 6:00 PM, El-P said:

bad announcing (yeah, you can feel it despite not speaking spanish),

I actually like Savinovich and Guillén. It's not an edifying listen or anything but they aren't too annoying, which is more than you can say for a lot of wrestling announcers, and sometimes they are even pretty fun.

[sek69]

With the announcers it's kind of a WCW thing where it's not that they aren't any good, but more of them having to make sense of the bullshit that goes on in AAA.