dkookypunk43 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 On the Voices of Wrestling podcast they pointed out that ROH is being bullied by NJPW to do these angles. They are in a position of vulnerability because without these NJPW guys, why would anyone go to these ROH shows? That's why they're failing because they have the cushion of the NJPW guys to say when they need a big house, they lean on other talent from mainly NJPW. Who in ROH has the potential to break out and become a star besides Lio Rush who just got there? Let's be honest, Adam Cole is at the peak of his star unless he goes to the E, Roddy the same thing, ACH isn't what we think he is to them and the other guys are just cogs in the wheel. Why aren't ROH bringing in the hot indie names that if this was 2007 and Gabe was booking it they would? They recruit from these camps and as much as the camps are helping some guys like a Hanson or Matt Taven get exposure, why would any big indie name like a Zack Sabre Jr, a Will Ospreay, a Chris Hero, a Ethan Page, a Marty Scurll, a Ricochet, a Sami Callihan go to a ROH camp when they are already established names and ROH should be booking you based off of what they do elsewhere. ROH isn't the pathway to WWE anymore and that's why more trendy names like a Matt Riddle go to an Evolve instead of ROH. ROH just got too big for their own good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 ROH is stuck because their owners could in theory have them competing with WWE, but since they don't they are stuck having to take handouts from NJPW. They are loosening up a little to improve production so at least they don't look like TNA's somewhat richer cousins, so there's that. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be too eager to match WWE in terms of paying guys which leaves them having to push guys they want to keep to go to Japan. It's a ripple effect because as stated, guys who want to go to WWE won't want to go to ROH unless they get paid similar money and that won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I feel like ROH is at that point ECW was at in the last 4 to 6 monthes- completely unwatchable to anybody but the diehard fans. However ROH has been that way for like 4 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Unwatchable seems a bit harsh. WCW at the end was unwatchable. ROH has good to great matches that just seem pointless in the grand scheme since the booking comes off as weird Japanophile fan service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I disagree. RoH had good TV in 2014 and 2015. The product becoming a mess again has been a more recent trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I loved early wannabe BattlArts ROH, I loved Gabe era ROH, i appriciated Cornette era ROH, I can't think of anything in the past 4 or 5 years I enjoyed. Can you recommend something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I got back into ROH last year and really liked alike a lot of it. I just hate that as soon as the TV show gains some storytelling steam, it takes a break and just shows weeks of stuff with New Japan guys that for the most part have nothing to do with any storylines. That being said, they know their core fan base and that core fan base touch themselves over some New Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subatomic_elbow Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 If it wasn't for Dalton Castle, I wouldn't even watch ROH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I got back into ROH last year and really liked alike a lot of it. I just hate that as soon as the TV show gains some storytelling steam, it takes a break and just shows weeks of stuff with New Japan guys that for the most part have nothing to do with any storylines. That being said, they know their core fan base and that core fan base touch themselves over some New Japan. The problem is that their "core fan base" is Sinclair Broadcasting, at least if we're defining it as the base that keeps the company alive. They should really work to expand the actual audience so that at some point it becomes sufficient to support meaningful expansion of the business. I'm an unabashed New Japan mark, and rushed to get tickets the first couple times they came to ROH. But not this weekend. What's the draw? I can see that crew's big matches live if I want to stay up all night, or the next day at the very latest. There's no reason to cancel a Saturday night just to see them live when I know the big performances are coming on a major NJPW show and nothing meaningful is taking place here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 They also need new announcers in the worst way possible. Kevin Kelly actively makes the product worse with how awful he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrasiveobelisksa Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 That's noted booker Kevin Kelly to you! I'm always reminded of the Observer tidbit from the last month or so about ROH moving to a booking committee format. Like...when was the last time that worked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 He's booking now? Really? What has Kevin Kelly ever said or done that's shown he would have any good input for angles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 It's a joke that WWE has created an alternative brand with a more passionate fanbase than ROH. Imagine WWE trying to create its own indy fed to compete with 2005 ROH or 1995 ECW, people would view it as a reason to rally behind their own guys. It's a complete joke that Bayley and Chad Gable are so much more over than any regular ROH act. Wrestling needs a strong alternative brand presenting fresh ideas and talent and ROH is not that place anymore, Evolve is in business with WWE, I guess PWG is the closest thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I'd say despite Evolve doing business with WWE they are still the best at presenting fresh talent. PWG doesn't run enough shows to fit that need, they have a shitty distribution model that's even worse than ROH's and they seem to mostly just use big indy names now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Evolve has a lot of stuff I really like so I guess they're the best thing we have. ECW 96-97 was in bed with WWE but still doing significant stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Evolve has a lot of stuff I really like so I guess they're the best thing we have. I wish there was more of an electric feel around their shows like peak ROH or ECW but good enough. ECW 96-97 was in bed with WWE but still doing significant stuff. Shoot I quoted myself instead of editing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 I think ROH was at its best when it was the most realistic style in North America. That was what the company was founded on. Low Ki, Dragon, Joe, all the British and Japanese guys working a very believable snug style. Thats not them anymore, if anything the ROH style is probably one of the more cartoonish in ring styles/presentations out there right now. If anything its a less believable style than WWE's in ring style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 There seems to be an unwillingness within the company to strap a rocket to the guys that get over. The two most over non-New Japan and non-Bullet Club guys on the show on Saturday were Dalton Castle and Moose (in that order). They wrestled second from the bottom in a four corners match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutenberger Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I started watching ROH fall of last year and was really interested. But when I startet a new job in januarry and thus had to cut off some of the stuff I watch, it was the first thing I scrapped without even thinking too much about it, because it just failed to keep my interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I think ROH was at its best when it was the most realistic style in North America. That was what the company was founded on. Low Ki, Dragon, Joe, all the British and Japanese guys working a very believable snug style. Thats not them anymore, if anything the ROH style is probably one of the more cartoonish in ring styles/presentations out there right now. If anything its a less believable style than WWE's in ring style. THIS. ROH has been floundering for a number of reasons, but one of the major ones is that the roster is mostly filled with talent that would, in 2002-2007, been used as curtain jerkers. Not in the sense of star power, because Jay Lethal fits that criteria perfectly, but in how they work. Spot-spot-spot is fine for an exhibition and for an unknown to show what they can do, but so few on the current roster really understand how to do more than that. Even worse, the booking is so abhorrently lazy, making even matches that sound interesting on paper turn out to be WWE midcard level (the ones where capable talents are told to not outshine the ME players). I wouldn't say Evolve is much better. I've yet to be able to sit through an entire Evolve show and, if we're being honest, the partnership with WWE leaves a sour taste in my mouth. It's pretty sad that the skeleton for a great ROH product is there but nobody wants, or is capable of, putting the meat where it needs to be. There's very little coherence in this post, so I'll just end with three simple words: fuck corporate wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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