Rebooking the WWF in 1991

[JaymeFuture]

So for this week's podcast we are returning to our booking committee format for a discussion Rebooking the WWF in 1991, a very interesting time that began the downturn for the company. We're looking to get some feedback on what you think needed to be done to make things succeed during a period where popularity fell.

Starting as everything was on January 1st 1991, what do you book for WrestleMania 7? Do you run with the Slaughter Gulf War angle? What do you do with Warrior's WWF Title run? What do you do with the incoming Sid Justice and Ric Flair? What do you do with the titles? Where does Hogan fit in?

As always, we'll be reading the best feedback/ideas on the show and crediting you accordingly. So what would you have done?

 

EDIT - Our show Rebooking the WWF in 1991, featuring many of your contributions is now online and available to listen to at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/s99tqu/SCG_Radio_85_-_Rebooking_The_WWF_in_1991.mp3

[Loss]

I think the booking was pretty strong in 1991. There's not an awful lot I would change. I think the key to Ric Flair meeting his full potential would have required the WWF to do so many things that were so anathema to their way of doing business that I'm not sure it could have possibly worked the way we always imagined Flair vs Hogan in the 80s. It's just hard to picture a top heel showing up without Heenan or Perfect, with them presenting it as "He doesn't even work here", uttering the initials "N-W-A" and acknowledging history outside the company. The only things I'd say that I think were more possible within their self-imposed confines that they didn't do were let Flair wear a suit more often instead of wearing his robe and gear all the time, even when he wasn't wrestling, and maybe not teaming him with other heels at Survivor Series where he becomes just a guy on the roster. For all the times they met, we never saw Flair presented as Hogan's equal in the buildup to any of their matches. I realize he's not, but feeding that perception was the key to making the feud work as much as it could.

 

The WWF seemed to realize an in-house manager wasn't the best route and tried to bring in Cornette, but Cornette wasn't interested, and I guess there weren't a lot more options out there.

[pmo]

I don't get the fact that JJ was right there in WWF front office if you wanted to go the new manager route. I can see Heenan trying to recreate the Bockwinkel chemistry, but Perfect never made sense.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I don't think there's much I'd change about 1991 WWF. Maybe I'd give The Berzerker a bigger push since his "HUS! HUS! HUS" schtick always cracked me up.

[Migs]

I actually just watched a ton of 1991 WWF.

 

My first instinct is that, hindsight being 20/20, of course you want to drop the Gulf War angle. The only problem is what you replace it with, because the company was in a really bad position re: main eventers at that point.

• They could have run Hogan-Warrior II at Wrestlemania with Hogan winning, but that probably kills Warrior for good after his weak reign. (And of course, at the time they don't know he'd be leaving in four months.)
• They could have slotted Savage into the title shot at the Rumble and had him win the belt, and then build to Hogan-Savage one more time in Wrestlemania. That might work if you do a retirement match stip on top of it being for the belt. Then you'd slot Warrior down to face Slaughter at Wrestlemania, or do something with him v. the Undertaker to set up the summer house show run they had (which was pretty successful).
• I guess they could have run Warrior-Savage on top at Mania, belt v. career, but that doesn't seem like it's a strong move. Not sure what you do with Hogan in that case. Maybe a toned down version of him v. Slaughter.

They really went hard at rebuilding the top of the card in the summer, bumping up Undertaker, pushing heel Roberts hard, bringing in Sid and Flair. For the most part, it makes for a really entertaining run. Flair's impact is sort of curtailed because his character isn't quite built to be a hot heel in the WWF - he's not dominant and imposing in any way, so he doesn't register as a real threat to Hogan. One way they could have fixed this was to give Flair, if not the Horsemen, then something similar. I think what really didn't work about Flair's Survivor Series team was giving him guys that were way too similar to him - Flair doesn't seem special when he's teaming with Dibiase and the Mountie. Instead you'd give him heavies - Haku and Barbarian (sent off to SWS for most of the year, but maybe you just don't do that), Warlord, Berzerker, maybe even Hercules (god, that WWF heel roster blows). Let him use those guys the way he used the Andersons early on - not to hide behind, but to augment his attack and make it seem like he was unstoppable because of the overall force he could muster. Maybe then he heats up enough that the challenge to Hogan feels more real and they get a Wrestlemania main event out of it.

[garretta]

Vince didn't want JJ working with Flair because he thought it would remind too many fans of the Horsemen, whom he didn't create. I agree about Curt too, at least at first. They eventually became quite good together, but Curt's original purpose was to give Flair someone at ringside other than Heenan (who didn't want any part of traveling with him because he was so wild on the road, and was busy in the booth at tapings) and to give Curt something to do besides collect a fat insurance check due to his bad back.

 

Interestingly, they tried Jimmy Hart as Flair's manager during his house show run with Hogan so that Hogan would have someone to beat up after the matches. Talk about a terrible fit!

[flyonthewall2983]

Jimmy Hart managed Flair a few times in WCW, it was a terrible fit. I could see it working if he managed Flair coming in to Memphis the few times he did.

 

One way they could have fixed this was to give Flair, if not the Horsemen, then something similar. I think what really didn't work about Flair's Survivor Series team was giving him guys that were way too similar to him - Flair doesn't seem special when he's teaming with Dibiase and the Mountie. Instead you'd give him heavies - Haku and Barbarian (sent off to SWS for most of the year, but maybe you just don't do that), Warlord, Berzerker, maybe even Hercules (god, that WWF heel roster blows). Let him use those guys the way he used the Andersons early on - not to hide behind, but to augment his attack and make it seem like he was unstoppable because of the overall force he could muster. Maybe then he heats up enough that the challenge to Hogan feels more real and they get a Wrestlemania main event out of it.

 

They kind of did that with him and The Undertaker, from about the time before Survivor Series until the SNME tag match with them/Hogan & Sid. How they had The Undertaker implicated in the Hogan/Flair feud, as well as being a part of the Savage/Roberts angle was interesting. One thing I'd definitely change, is to align Hogan and Savage together during this period in lieu of Warrior not being there. I think if Warrior was more of a team player during this time, he could have been the one in Sid's place during the whole time Savage was relegated to broadcast duty. Putting them together and tying in the new Savage angle with the already established program between Warrior and Jake/Undertaker, could have made for some interesting segments where they have this uneasy partnership because of their own history.

 

Basically, it's what they did in 1992 anyway with the brief Ultimate Maniacs run.

[pmo]

Vince didn't want JJ working with Flair because he thought it would remind too many fans of the Horsemen, whom he didn't create. I agree about Curt too, at least at first. They eventually became quite good together, but Curt's original purpose was to give Flair someone at ringside other than Heenan (who didn't want any part of traveling with him because he was so wild on the road, and was busy in the booth at tapings) and to give Curt something to do besides collect a fat insurance check due to his bad back.

 

Interestingly, they tried Jimmy Hart as Flair's manager during his house show run with Hogan so that Hogan would have someone to beat up after the matches. Talk about a terrible fit!

Agreed on Hennig, he got good at the role, but it seemed an awkward fit at first. The thing with JJ is typical Vince hubris. You've already gone 50% there bringing in the belt why not go all the way with someone that is already on the roster. Heenan wasn't bad, actually had good chemistry, but you could run it with him and JJ and pull a slick/blassie deal with JJ taking over what's left of heenan''s stable.

[C.S.]

It was better with Heenan. He was able to hype it on all the shows (commentary on the weekend shows, hosting Prime Time, etc.) and he was considered a legendary manager in the WWF. He gave Flair credibility to non-NWA fans and kids (which were probably most of the fans watching the show).

The dirty little secret that '80s NWA rasslin' fans don't want to admit to themselves is that JJ Dillon has no charisma and would not have been a good fit for an on-screen role in the bombastic and over-the-top WWF of that era.

[Al]

The problem with Heenan is that he just couldn't handle the road anymore, especially with Flair.

 

I think Slaughter as main event heel was actually an inspired choice. Adding in the Iraqi sympathizer stuff soured it though.

 

I would've done away with some of the more heavy angles they ran, like Undertaker locking Warrior in the casket and Earthquake crushing Damien. And I wouldn't have the cajones to run the Savage/Roberts snake angle. But that all comes down to my own personal comfort level.

[Loss]

The dirty little secret that '80s NWA rasslin' fans don't want to admit to themselves is that JJ Dillon has no charisma and would not have been a good fit for an on-screen role in the bombastic and over-the-top WWF of that era.

 

In his role as the Horsemen manager, maybe not, but the guy had plenty of charisma, and that role was one of many he took on throughout his career. It's just the one he's most known for. I'm not saying that to say he should have been paired with Flair as much as I am saying he has no charisma just isn't really the case at all.

 

You never know how the WWF during this time might have reimagined someone. Who would have thought Percy Pringle would have a long, prosperous career as a WWF manager?

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Well, I was listening to the latest Between the Sheets podcast and there was a note that WWF was considering signing Paul Orndorff to manage Sid. And I had a vision of Orndorff, still reeling over losing the feud to Hogan four years earlier and with his ability to exact revenge on his own severely compromised by his lethargic arm, bringing in Sid Justice as a hired gun to accomplish his ultimate goal of destroying Hulkamania. That would have been cool.

[flyonthewall2983]

The dirty little secret that '80s NWA rasslin' fans don't want to admit to themselves is that JJ Dillon has no charisma and would not have been a good fit for an on-screen role in the bombastic and over-the-top WWF of that era.

 

My initial impression of Dillon as a manager was that he was a poor man's Heenan. They could have brought him in to take over Jack Tunney's role on-screen later on, instead of Gorilla Monsoon (who was okay in that role admittedly).

 

One thing I would have done is to have taken Slaughter off TV for awhile after WM, have him come back months later and make a dramatic save and turn good again. That would have been the best way to turn him, instead of how they went about it.

[Downend2005]

I would actually keep both the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania world title matches in place. Using the benefit of hindsight though, the Mania match between Hogan and Slaughter would actually be their Desert Storm match which they had at MSG later in the year. I do feel that the Hogan/Slaughter feud itself had reached a natural conclusion at Wrestlemania, and there was no need to extend it into the summer.

 

Savage/Warrior would also still take place at Mania 7 as well, and the match would play out exactly the same.

 

My big angle for the summer setting up the rest of the year would have seen Hogan and Warrior face Jake Roberts and The Undertaker at Summerslam instead of Slaughter, Adnan and Mustafa. Roberts could play up the psychological aspect of Warrior/Hogan both wanting to be the top guy, sowing seeds of distrust between them. I'd also have had Savage as the special referee instead of Sid, as there would be the added wrinkles of Savage's feuds with both Hogan and Warrior in the past to play off of, and this would be a good place to start the Savage/Roberts feud too. Assuming Warrior gets fired after the match, I'd have the Undertaker take him out during the match, leaving Hogan at a 2 on 1 disadvantage. Roberts then tries to use a chair on Hogan, which leads to Savage getting physically involved, resulting in a Hogan win and Jake vowing revenge on Savage, building to Wrestlemania 8, which would have Savage facing Roberts in a cage.

[gordi]

It's cool how everyone is being so realistic and restrained here, but for me it's more fun to go hog wild. Assuming I have the book and also I have sufficient Jedi Mind Powers to convince Vince, Hogan, Warrior, et al. to go along with it, and assuming we've got Ric, Sid, Dusty, and The Road Warriors to play with: I would book an "NWA Invasion" angle, but with a twist: We bring them in as Good Guys.

 

I HATED the Gulf War Angle, so I'd drop that completely. Maybe give Sarge something with Tenryu instead. Imagine the stiffness.

 

In the run up to the Rumble, I'd have DiBiase and Heenan obviously up to something big. DiBiase would buy Quake's contract from Jimmy Hart, they'd be seen having covert meetings with Savage and Sapphire, stuff like that.

 

Dusty would slowly evolve away from his polka-dot character and back into something more like how he we like to remember him.

 

I'd have Savage go over Warrior for the strap at the Rumble, with help from Quake, the Barbarian, and Haku, setting up both a new heel stable and a heel run for Savage as champ. Warrior would get taken out in an ambulance (strapped to a gurney, but struggling valiantly to get up and continue the fight).

 

Hogan would win the Rumble, eliminating Quake last... only to get jumped by Bararian, Haku, and Demolition while he's celebrating. Dusty and the LOD would run down for the save... but then Quake would join in... and here comes Sid to the rescue! But out come Savage and DiBiase! Everyone else is brawling outside the ring. Savage and DiBiase are about to go to town on Hogan with a chair. Who will make the save?!?!?! (Cue "Sunrise" from Also Sprach Zarathustra)

 

With this heroic deed, and much subsequent hype, we'd get Ric over as a hero to the WWF crowd by the time WM VII rolls around. The "NWA" faction of Flair, Dusty, Sid, and the LOD would have Hogan and Warrior's backs against The Million Dollar Family. If for some reason Sid can't get over as a face, he can turn on them and Bossman can fill the "One More Big Strong Good Guy" slot.

 

At some point between the Rumble and Mania we'd have a SNME featuring Haku, Barbarian, and DiBiase vs. Dusty and the LOD. Quake, Demolition, Savage and DiBiase would interfere. Hogan, Warrior, Sid and Flair would make the save. There would be a stand-off.

 

Earlier on the show, the newly formed tag team Horrorshow (Jake and Taker) would take the straps from the Hart Foundation with some help from Mr. Perfect, who distracts Bret while the heels take Neidhart out.

 

So: The meat of your WrestleMania 7 Card:

 

Bossman vs. Heenan, Weasel Suit Match

 

Dusty vs. DiBiase

 

Tenryu vs. Sarge, Falls Count Anywhere

 

Horrorshow vs. The Rockers, Tag Titles.

 

Bret vs. Perfect, for the IC Strap

 

WAR GAMES: Quake, Haku, Barbarian, and (two members of) Demolition vs. Hogan, Warrior, Sid, and LOD

 

Savage vs. Flair in the Main Event for the World Title

[Rock_Of_Jericho]

1991 was one of their best years. There's not a whole lot I would change, to be honest, especially towards the end of the year. I probably wouldn't have done the Gulf War thing with Slaughter, but can't really think of a better alternative as opponents to feed to Hogan weren't all the abundant...at least with guys he hadn't already beat. I might've just had Hogan beat Mr. Perfect at Wrestlemania 7.

 

The one thing I would definitely change is their misuse of Ricky Steamboat during this time period. I would've had at least one Steamboat-Flair match at some point and would've pushed him higher on the card to keep him on the roster. A short feud with Ted DiBiase or Mr. Perfect might've been a good warmup until the Piper-Flair feud was done. I probably would've had Sid come in as a heel from the beginning, maybe with Flair as a nod to their Horsemen days.

 

Savage and Roberts feud was excellent and wouldn't change a thing, except maybe to have a longer and more brutal blowoff at Wrestlemania 8, but that goes into '92, so basically just build to that as I thought the feud still had legs when it ended abruptly.

 

Hogan-Flair would've headlined Wrestlemania 8, so their feud would've continued into the next year with Sid as Flair's backup. Maybe a Steamboat-Sid feud. If anyone could get a decent match out of Sid, it would be Steamboat. But then, I would've loved to have seen Steamboat-Michaels at least once, too.

 

Warrior-Undertaker would've feuded into the next year.

 

So, basically, 1991 would've been leading into Wrestlemania 8 for the next year. As it is, they had a great roster at that time, but I feel like they dropped the ball in '92 after a great 91 setup.

[JaymeFuture]

I want to thank everybody for the contributions, we got to read many of them on the show, which is now available at the following link:

http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/s99tqu/SCG_Radio_85_-_Rebooking_The_WWF_in_1991.mp3

Join us for our show Rebooking the WWF in 1991! Taking everything on board as it was on January 1st 1991, we book all the way through to WrestleMania 8 in a mission to explore the start of the problems that would riddle the company for the next six years. Debating the Sgt. Slaughter Iraqi sympathiser role, the debuts of Sid Justice and Ric Flair to the WWF, heel Jake Roberts, the title run of the Ultimate Warrior, the early days of the Undertaker and much more, we book every Pay-Per-View up to Mania 8 and discuss all the main angles. In addition, we take your ideas and suggestions for what would have helped offset the impending problems for the WWF. A fun show as always this week, check it out and let us know what you think!

[Downend2005]

 

I'm a big fan of the podcasts and this was also a very fun show in parts.

 

However, I do think the rebooking shows suffer a bit by just rebooking or changing things for the sake of changing things.

 

One big example is chucking people in a tag team with no rhyme or reason. In this show alone we have Dibiase and Earthquake, Owen and Steamboat and Slaughter and Crush? Corporal Crush was funny to be fair, but chucking people in a tag team just seems a bit of a copout. I remember Adam Bomb and the 123 Kid team from your 95 rebooking show going for the tag belts at a mania too.

 

It's clear from listening to the show you aren't fans of Slaughter. However, rightly or wrongly, he was a key part of the shows, and a top heel, so there wasn't any reason to Job him out so severely, especially when having so few top heels to pick from. Ditto the Nasty Boys. I think the panels opinions of certain workers actually hinder you all creatively. Slaughter could have easily been paired with Duggan, for example. Michaels benefits from a decent push in the podcast, as does Steamboat (at least until he's in put into the Owen team).

 

Thinking about it more, I'd have Michaels beat Jannetty to blow off the rockers story arc, and put Steamboat with Martel, The Mountie, IRS etc, building him up with wins. If you want, you can then put Michaels against Steamboat at Wrestlemania 8, for example. It's still a lower card feud, but both of them have been built with wins and there is a sense of elevation and natural progression to them becoming IC level contenders.

 

I'd actually bring Flair in using a rehash of the Randy Savage debut in 1985. Make Flair seem like a big deal by having a manager 'bidding war'. Have Jimmy Hart, Sherri, Slick etc all pitching for him, even have Heenan offer to return to management full time. He then debuts at Survivor Series in a non wrestling segment, saying he's found the Perfect manager, and bringing out Mr. Perfect in his first appearance since Summerslam at the Bret match. Flair then doesn't debut in ring until the Rumble, where he wins the WWF Title in his first match in. You then build to Hogan vs Flair at Mania.

 

I'd debut Sid in a match at Summerslam (not as a ref) and have him kill a lower card heel in record time. Id keep him face for as long as he stayed hot.

 

Hogan/Jake at Wrestlemania 7 wouldn't have made any sense at that point in time. Piper/Slaughter the same. Not addressing the Rockers split, losing Bret/Piper entirely and changing the 92 Rumble were all head scratchers. Power and Glory getting a mega push as tag team champions (similar to your Shelton mega push in 2006) was a stretch too.

 

It's a good concept in theory, but I think more could be done to ground yourselves in the time when booking as opposed to using hindsight (ie what people became) and personal preferences.

 

I hope you see this as constructive feedback, because as I said, I'm a big fan and the podcast is a really good listen every week.

[JaymeFuture]

Of course, no offense taken at all, constructive criticism is appreciated, especially for a type of show like this that is fairly ambitious - 4 people debating and booking over a year within 2 hours is going to have problems, and glad you enjoyed it.

 

I think its part of a stream of consciousness committee discussion to have stuff that seems thrown together. I guess the counter to the tag teams point is that in 1991 they threw together Earthquake and Tugboat, DiBiase and IRS, and Owen and Koko in much the same fashion. Two of the teams you mention that we put together were to create scenarios where LOD wouldnt flounder, so I suppose its looking at whether the end justifies the means.

 

I am a fan of Slaughter, but not at the top in 91. I don't have a problem with him being in the upper midcard mix, but I think history showed that him as top guy for any length of time in 91 wasn't for the best.

 

Flair is such a tricky one. I love the Rumble 92 as much as anyone, and God knows I wouldnt want to lose that, but at the same time, if it takes you five months to do something great with NWA World Champion Ric Flair with title in hand, you've ballsed up somewhere. And they did. I think an overlooked element to the Royal Rumble 92 (overlooked because the finished product was so good) is that Flair lost a lot of steam and needed the megapush to reheat him. Honestly, there's probably a way to bring him in strong and still get the great Rumble in there, but that's hindsighty in its own way I suppose - only keeping it in because we know it was so good.

 

Hogan and Jake you have to make sense of, granted, but honestly, I think if I had stumbled in to that position in January 91 and my mission was to ixnay the Gulf War stuff, the first thing to do is keep Slaughter away from Hogan, which doesnt leave you with natural options...

[Downend2005]

All good points in fairness, and fair play for you being able to justify some of the decision making made.

 

I suppose I'd have LOD take the titles at the earliest possible opportunity then and book them strong from there. Fast forward what actually did happen, Have the Nasties beat the Hart Foundation at the Rumble instead, LOD then win the belts at Mania and then have a strong reign lasting into Mania 8 and possibly beyond. That causes a problem with what to do with Bret at Mania, maybe have him win a showcase match against a mid card heel, starting his IC Title push.

 

You can then build up a new heel team in mid to late 91, maybe Money Inc or the Disasters and have them win the belts, before LOD then win the belts back at Summerslam 92 at Wembley. Two big wins at big shows and a long title reign would hopefully go a long way to helping (in 91-92 at least!).

 

Looking forward to next weeks show!