DMJ Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 One of my favorite pop culture writers is Chuck Klosterman. In one of his best pieces, he writes at length about how important it is to have a nemesis and an archenemy - and goes on to explain how these two people are not the same. Full text here Basically, your nemesis is a bit like your rival - you are constantly in competition with this person and want to beat them, but you harbor begrudging respect for them, maybe even secretly appreciate them. Your archenemy is someone you loathe. According to Klosterman, Larry Bird's nemesis was Magic Johnson. They were the leaders of their respective teams at a time when their teams were competing to be the best team in the NBA. However, Bird's archenemy was actually Isiah Thomas of the Detroit Pistons, a guy who notoriously insulted Bird by questioning whether his popularity had more to do with his skin color than his, y'know, averaging a double-double each of his first six years, winning three championships, etc. So...how is this wrestling? I thought it'd be fun to discuss who someone's nemesis/archenemy is. For example, John Cena's nemesis is Randy Orton. Their careers have been intertwined for over a decade and they're arguably the WWE's version of Rock/Austin (more on them below) for the 2000s. They've faced each other countless times, but even in their most intense battles, there has always been an underlying respect between them. Cena's archenemy is Edge, though, the guy that cost him his first and second WWE World Championships, building his career as The Cena Spoiler. Back to Rock and Austin. Austin may have hated the Rock...but the Rock was a wrestler, a worthy challenge. The Rock was Austin's nemesis. Vince McMahon was Austin's archenemy. Now, as Klosterman goes on to explain, this doesn't always work both ways. Austin's archenemy was Vince McMahon, but McMahon's archenemy wasn't Austin - it was Ted Turner. Austin was McMahon's nemesis, but even at the height of their feud, McMahon was always somewhat open about wanting the Rattlesnake to join him as his corporate champion. McMahon wanted Turner to die penniless. Finally, Klosterman posits that if you don't have a nemesis and an archenemy, you can't truly be great. I'm not sure this is the same in wrestling. I mean, Sting had a nemesis (Flair) and an archenemy (Hollywood Hogan), but I wouldn't call him any greater a character than the Undertaker (who only had a nemesis - Kane) or even The Ultimate Warrior (who only had an archenemy - Rick Rude). ANYWAY....I'm hoping others will join in on the fun. Who was Ric Flair's nemesis? Who was his archenemy? What about the Hulkster? Was Bret Hart's archenemy Vince or Shawn or was it really Triple H all along, the one guy he, to this day, has never said even a halfway respectful word about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...TG Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Ric's nemesis is pretty obviously Ricky Steamboat, the Bird to his Magic. Archenemy is a bit tougher, because there's Hogan and Dusty who fit the mold. I want to go with Hogan because of what they represent culturally, but Dusty and Ric's rivalry behind the scenes feels important too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Flair's nemesis : Steamboat Flair's archenemy : Hulk Hogan Ricky Steamboat's nemesis : Ric Flair Ricky Steamboat's archenemy : Randy Savage Randy Savage's nemesis : Hulk Hogan (way too many times on the same side of the track despite real-life loathing) Randy Savage's archenemy : Ric Flair Raven's nemesis : Sandman Raven's archenemy : Tommy Dreamer Misawa's nemesis : Kobashi Misawa's archenemy : Kawada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 I might argue that Misawa's Nemesis was Jumbo. Ice Train's Nemesis: Scott Norton Ice Train's Archenemy: Diamond Dallas Paige Bastion Booger's Nemesis: Bam Bam Bigelow Bastion Booger's Archenemy: Luna Vachon Fred Ottman's Nemesis: John Tenta Fred Ottman's Archenemy: That piece of lumber propping up the set of "A Flair for the Gold." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Fred Ottman's Nemesis: John Tenta Fred Ottman's Archenemy: That piece of lumber propping up the set of "A Flair for the Gold." This is so right ! Ozaki's nemesis : Dynamite Kansai Ozaki's archenemy : Chiggy Megumi Kudo's nemesis : Combat Toyoda Megumi Kudo's archenemy : Shark Tsuchiya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 This is tougher than it seems. Steve Grey Nemesis -- Johnny Saint (?) Archenemy -- Jim Breaks? Zoltan Boscik (?) El Dandy Nemesis -- Negro Casas (?) Angel Azteca (?) Archenemy -- Satanico (?) El Hijo del Santo Nemesis -- Espanto Jr (?) Blue Demon Jr (?) Archenemy -- Negro Casas (?) Tito Santana Nemesis -- Randy Savage (?) Archenemy -- Greg Valentine (?) Rick Martel (?) Rey Mysterio Jr. Nemesis -- Psicosis (?) Eddie Guerrero (?) Archenemy -- JBL (??) Chigusa Nagayo Nemesis -- Lioness Asuka (?) Mayumi Ozaki (?) Archenemy -- Dump Matsumoto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cad Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 Satanico Nemesis: Lizmark Archenemy: Dandy Blue Panther Nemesis: Atlantis Archenemy: Love Machine Emilio Charles Jr. Nemesis: Atlantis Archenemy: Dandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted August 13, 2016 Report Share Posted August 13, 2016 This is tougher than it seems. This means I'm gonna agree with you twice in one day... but yeah, it totally is. Look At Bret Hart, It's pretty obvious who his archenemy is... but you could make a more-than-reasonable case for Austin as his nemesis... but for someone like me who was most into following Bret from his Stampede days up until the Hart Foundation became champs The Dynamite Kid is at least as good a choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 Jerry Lawler: Nemesis: Bill Dundee Arch Enemy: Jimmy Hart Jimmy Valiant: Nemesis: Jerry Lawler Arch Enemy: Paul Jones Magnum TA: Nemesis: Nikita Koloff Arch Enemy: Tully Blanchard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordi Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Magnum TA: Nemesis: Nikita Koloff I think that might be the best example pro wrestling has to offer of a Closterman-style nemesis relationship. Good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Jushin Liger Nemesis: Shinjiro Ohtani Archenemy: Naoki Sano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Mick Foley Cactus Jack Nemesis: Terry Funk Archenemy: Vader (90's), Triple H (00's) Mankind Nemesis: Triple H Archenemy: The Undertaker Dude Love Nemesis: Stone Cold Archenemy: Mick Foley (my three faces of foley idea really fell apart there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted August 23, 2016 Report Share Posted August 23, 2016 Hulk Hogan Nemesis: Randy Savage Archenemy: Ric Flair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutenberger Posted August 26, 2016 Report Share Posted August 26, 2016 Vince McMahon Nemesis: WCW Archenemy. The WWE fans (I refuse to say Universe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...TG Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 Stan Hansen: Nemesis - Giant Baba Archenemy - Bruno Sammartino (I'm way off on that one, I know. Kobashi is a good fit too, maybe.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 Bruce Prichard Nemesis: Dave Meltzer Archenemy: The key to a more accurate Jim Cornette impression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted May 16, 2017 Report Share Posted May 16, 2017 Bobby Heenan Nemesis: Hulk Hogan Archenemy: Gorilla Monsoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPulis'Cap Posted May 17, 2017 Report Share Posted May 17, 2017 Bobby Heenan Nemesis: Hulk Hogan Archenemy: Gorilla Monsoon I think Heenan's perhaps works the other way round, but as people have pointed out, it's tough with a number of people to do this with a lot of blurred lines. Like for example The Rock, I want to say... Nemesis: Austin Archenemy: Triple H ...but think a case could be made to flip those as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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