Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[goc]

I really want to know what the break-even point for subscriptions will be for FloSlam but no one has even broached that subject yet in the coverage. With talk about the price of indy content "sky rocketing" it would seem like they are going to need a lot of subs to make this thing profitable. We're in the wrestling bubble so it kind of skews the numbers but are there really even say, 100,000 people that would pay $20 a month to stream indy wrestling? That number seems high to me.

[Grimmas]

The price is cheaper than the current way to watch Evolve which shows indies charge too much

[Coffey]

How many people even watch Evolve shows, period?

 

This just seems like a service that there won't be enough interest in. Maybe I'm wrong? Independent wrestling is a niche of a niche. This does not strike me as profitable.

[goc]

Yea the last numbers I heard for New Japan World subs in the U.S. was around 1,000. And New Japan gets talked about more than EVOLVE at least from what I see on message boards and twitter. I get that it will be a lot easier to subscribe and use FloSlam than New Japan World for people who don't live in Japan but still not sure that the market is really big enough for this sort of thing to really succeed.

[Infinit]

Subscribing to New Japan World was really, really, really easy.

[goc]

Subscribing to New Japan World was really, really, really easy.

Some people have trouble with the simplest of tech tasks so mileage always varies on these things. I seem to recall people complaining to Meltzer on twitter about how hard it was to use the site.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

 

Subscribing to New Japan World was really, really, really easy.

 

Some people have trouble with the simplest of tech tasks so mileage always varies on these things. I seem to recall people complaining to Meltzer on twitter about how hard it was to use the site.

Dave also said they would have English menus eventually. I never subbed for that reason. No apps, no English menus, etc. If numbers are that low, they probably never will.

[stro]

This thing seems DOA to me. Why would companies who are making a profit selling their shows at $15-20 a pop want to be part of a service that is $20 total for a bunch of different groups without the kind of exposure they'd get for doing the same on WWE Network? No one signing up for this is going to be unfamiliar with most of the promotions, so they're just able to watch the same content for cheaper.

 

This is why I don't understand the "price of indie wrestling is skyrocketing" comment, because when this fails, how are you going to convince people who were paying $20 a month for your shows plus 30 other shows to pay $20 for one show again? In the very short term it could get some guys some money, but ultimately seems like it'd have a negative impact once it shuts down.

 

 

 

 

 

Subscribing to New Japan World was really, really, really easy.

Some people have trouble with the simplest of tech tasks so mileage always varies on these things. I seem to recall people complaining to Meltzer on twitter about how hard it was to use the site.

Dave also said they would have English menus eventually. I never subbed for that reason. No apps, no English menus, etc. If numbers are that low, they probably never will.

 

They do have English menus. And an app.

 

 

Subscribing to New Japan World was really, really, really easy.

Some people have trouble with the simplest of tech tasks so mileage always varies on these things. I seem to recall people complaining to Meltzer on twitter about how hard it was to use the site.

Dave also said they would have English menus eventually. I never subbed for that reason. No apps, no English menus, etc. If numbers are that low, they probably never will.

 

They do have English menus. And an app.

[cpst]

This thing seems DOA to me. Why would companies who are making a profit selling their shows at $15-20 a pop want to be part of a service that is $20 total for a bunch of different groups without the kind of exposure they'd get for doing the same on WWE Network? No one signing up for this is going to be unfamiliar with most of the promotions, so they're just able to watch the same content for cheaper.

 

This is why I don't understand the "price of indie wrestling is skyrocketing" comment, because when this fails, how are you going to convince people who were paying $20 a month for your shows plus 30 other shows to pay $20 for one show again? In the very short term it could get some guys some money, but ultimately seems like it'd have a negative impact once it shuts down.

They probably knew that the WWE and others were looking to acquire indie wrestling content and felt that the change in direction was inevitable, so they tried to move first and strike a favorable deal for themselves.

[stro]

 

This thing seems DOA to me. Why would companies who are making a profit selling their shows at $15-20 a pop want to be part of a service that is $20 total for a bunch of different groups without the kind of exposure they'd get for doing the same on WWE Network? No one signing up for this is going to be unfamiliar with most of the promotions, so they're just able to watch the same content for cheaper.

 

This is why I don't understand the "price of indie wrestling is skyrocketing" comment, because when this fails, how are you going to convince people who were paying $20 a month for your shows plus 30 other shows to pay $20 for one show again? In the very short term it could get some guys some money, but ultimately seems like it'd have a negative impact once it shuts down.

They probably knew that the WWE and others were looking to acquire indie wrestling content and felt that the change in direction was inevitable, so they tried to move first and strike a favorable deal for themselves.

 

Seems short sighted, because there's no way this thing is going to last very long, and then your content has been devalued. You can't put that genie back in the bottle. Just like no one would pay for a WWE PPV after the Network. Once you go that way, there's no turning back.

[The Thread Killer]

Ed Whalen was far, far from the worst commentator ever and was actually really great in his interactions with the heels

 

That is the most untrue statement in the history of the world.

 

I will go back to my own quote from the "How Important is Commentary" thread in this very forum:

 

Somebody mentioned Ed Whalen? Don't get me started on Ed Whalen. I was a Stampede Wrestling fan during the mid-late eighties. You had Owen Hart, (and assorted other Harts of varying skill levels) Brian Pillman, Bad News Allen, The British Bulldogs, and others. Ed Whalen made a lot of those matches hard to sit through. The man was horrible. He wasn't just horrible, he was actually detrimental to the product.

 

First of all, when it came to actual commentary ability - he didn't have any. He didn't know the actual names of many of the moves, so he resorted to: "Oh, look at that!" Secondly, he had a well used bag of maddening clichés which he went to on an all too regular basis. A couple of prize examples would be: "This is a ring-a-ding-dong-dandy!" and "Malfunction at the junction!" Just listening to the man was painful.

 

On top of that, he had no respect whatsoever for Pro Wrestling OR Pro Wrestlers. Calling Stampede was not his full time job - he called Hockey Games (which he also sucked at, for the record.) He used to actually give interviews in the local media where he would mock Stampede Wrestling and make fun of wrestling as it was not his real job. That's the guy you want as the face of your company when people turn on the television.

 

Even worse, he used to conduct the interviews in the ring, during which he would inject himself, no-sell the storylines, and basically do everything an interviewer is NOT supposed to do. If he was on camera, he generally made it about himself, not the guy he was interviewing. Apparently, a lot of the wrestlers hated him, and if that is true, I can see why.

 

Last but not least, he actually sabotaged the product behind the scenes. Whenever there was bloodshed (and Calgary could be bloody at times) he would bitch to the Athletic Commission about it. He actually managed to get a show cancelled once, which was supposed to be a blow-off for a huge angle, because he bitched so much about the violence - they ended up having to do the show on an unregulated Indian Reservation that a lot of people couldn't get to. He was such a prick about it, it made the front page of the Calgary Newspaper.

 

All of this, and Stu Hart had to basically deal with the guy because he was part of the television deal, if I am not mistaken. If you read the book "Pain and Passion: The History of Stampede Wrestling" by Heath McCoy, you'll get to see just how horrible this old jerk was.

 

In short, whenever I hear somebody wax nostalgic about Ed Whalen and his stupid clichés, I have to fight the urge to slap them in the head with a phone book.

[stro]

I'll take Ed over Bob Caudle any day. And Johnny Weaver.

 

Lance Russell and Tony Schiavone are my GOATS, although immense love for all variations of the main Golden Era WWF teams.

[Ricky Jackson]

 

Ed Whalen was far, far from the worst commentator ever and was actually really great in his interactions with the heels

That is the most untrue statement in the history of the world.

 

I will go back to my own quote from the "How Important is Commentary" thread in this very forum:

Somebody mentioned Ed Whalen? Don't get me started on Ed Whalen. I was a Stampede Wrestling fan during the mid-late eighties. You had Owen Hart, (and assorted other Harts of varying skill levels) Brian Pillman, Bad News Allen, The British Bulldogs, and others. Ed Whalen made a lot of those matches hard to sit through. The man was horrible. He wasn't just horrible, he was actually detrimental to the product.

 

First of all, when it came to actual commentary ability - he didn't have any. He didn't know the actual names of many of the moves, so he resorted to: "Oh, look at that!" Secondly, he had a well used bag of maddening clichés which he went to on an all too regular basis. A couple of prize examples would be: "This is a ring-a-ding-dong-dandy!" and "Malfunction at the junction!" Just listening to the man was painful.

 

On top of that, he had no respect whatsoever for Pro Wrestling OR Pro Wrestlers. Calling Stampede was not his full time job - he called Hockey Games (which he also sucked at, for the record.) He used to actually give interviews in the local media where he would mock Stampede Wrestling and make fun of wrestling as it was not his real job. That's the guy you want as the face of your company when people turn on the television.

 

Even worse, he used to conduct the interviews in the ring, during which he would inject himself, no-sell the storylines, and basically do everything an interviewer is NOT supposed to do. If he was on camera, he generally made it about himself, not the guy he was interviewing. Apparently, a lot of the wrestlers hated him, and if that is true, I can see why.

 

Last but not least, he actually sabotaged the product behind the scenes. Whenever there was bloodshed (and Calgary could be bloody at times) he would bitch to the Athletic Commission about it. He actually managed to get a show cancelled once, which was supposed to be a blow-off for a huge angle, because he bitched so much about the violence - they ended up having to do the show on an unregulated Indian Reservation that a lot of people couldn't get to. He was such a prick about it, it made the front page of the Calgary Newspaper.

 

All of this, and Stu Hart had to basically deal with the guy because he was part of the television deal, if I am not mistaken. If you read the book "Pain and Passion: The History of Stampede Wrestling" by Heath McCoy, you'll get to see just how horrible this old jerk was.

 

In short, whenever I hear somebody wax nostalgic about Ed Whalen and his stupid clichés, I have to fight the urge to slap them in the head with a phone book.

I would never make the claim that Ed was one of the all time greats, but this is pretty over the top hyperbole. Ed was/is beloved by a lot of people, he wasn't an incarnation of the devil. And all his supposed behind the scenes transgressions are overstated. The big angle you mention, involving Stomper and Bad News, Ed was in on. He "quit" to sell the severity of the situation, and only when the negative publicity in Calgary spiraled out of control did he decide not to come back. He had nothing to do with the show being cancelled, that was the athletic commissions doing.

 

As for Ed's interactions with the heels during interviews, if you can't find entertainment value there I don't know what else to say, it's great pro wrestling IMO

[Grimmas]

 

This thing seems DOA to me. Why would companies who are making a profit selling their shows at $15-20 a pop want to be part of a service that is $20 total for a bunch of different groups without the kind of exposure they'd get for doing the same on WWE Network? No one signing up for this is going to be unfamiliar with most of the promotions, so they're just able to watch the same content for cheaper.

 

This is why I don't understand the "price of indie wrestling is skyrocketing" comment, because when this fails, how are you going to convince people who were paying $20 a month for your shows plus 30 other shows to pay $20 for one show again? In the very short term it could get some guys some money, but ultimately seems like it'd have a negative impact once it shuts down.

They probably knew that the WWE and others were looking to acquire indie wrestling content and felt that the change in direction was inevitable, so they tried to move first and strike a favorable deal for themselves.

 

WWE invested 20+ million dollars into this service, so I doubt this is a thing.

[NintendoLogic]

I recall reading that Stu liked Whalen because Stampede's business ups and downs largely coincided with whether he was doing the announcing.

[Ricky Jackson]

Yeah. And have you ever heard Sam Menacker call Stampede? Now that's bad commentery

[stro]

One of my least favorite dudes to listen to is Bill Watts. Dude always sound so bored with his own product, and he'd openly shit on the talent or point out their mistakes, while being far more interested in talking about their non-wrestling achievements than wrestling qualities. He really harms the quality of MS shows for me. Which is sad, because Mid South is probably the best territory to pick a random TV episode and watch outside of him.

 

Other guys I'd put on my list of all time terrible commentators lower than Ed:

 

Mark Madden

Lord Alfred Hayes

Mark Madden

Mark Madden

Dok Hendrix

Rob Bartlett (can you believe Vince stuck with him for as long as he did?)

Mike Tenay

Mark Madden

Jerry Lawler for all but like the first year of his WWF run

Mark Madden

 

 

Fuck Mark Madden. What a sack of shit he was. And is.

[Sidebottom]

Poor Mark Madden lol

[Coffey]

Mark Madden was awful. Stevie Ray was terrible. Jerry Lawler is quite bad. Vampiro is the pits. Matt Striker isn't great. Mike Tenay is a parody. Don West was pretty bad. The Pope is one of the worst of all-time.

 

At this point, it's harder to name GOOD commentators than shitty ones.

[DeanColes1987]

Am I the only person who actually played with my Hasbros instead of putting them on a shelf? I have a drawer full of them in disgusting condition, my Undertaker lost his hand,my Doink lost 3 fingers,Bushwhacker Luke is missing with just his cap left as a reminder and Damian has his tail bitten off by me presumably.

[goc]

Definitely not the only person I played with my Hasbros a ton as a kid. Doink figure was very easy to break fingers off. Giant Gonzalez was the best Hasbro figure imo. Made a great monster heel that pretty much no one but The Undertaker could really go toe to toe with.

[DeanColes1987]

My monster heel was Yokozuna, he even broke my WCW ring with the red cage

[sek69]

I may or may not have had a whole company booked with He-Man figures and AWA Remco figures. I don't know if it was on purpose that they were the same size, but it worked perfectly.

[DeanColes1987]

Crash Dummies were pretty good for jobbers

[Coffey]

I still have a shelf of those toys. I have Hogan, Warrior, Savage, Rick Rude, Jake the Snake, Ted DiBiase and Demolition Smash. All these years later!

 

I also have a stack of old WCW Valentine's Cards... that I have no idea where they came from.