BrianB Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 I can also google, and stumble across a better source than wikipedia: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/acquittal At the end of a criminal trial, a finding by a judge or jury that a defendant is not guilty. An acquittal signifies that a prosecutor failed to prove his or her case beyond a reasonable doubt, not that a defendant is innocent. Thus, a person may be acquitted of a crime but found civilly liable in a civil case regarding that same crime, e.g. O.J. Simpson, because civil cases have a lower burden of proof than criminal cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 So by that definition was he acquitted or not acquitted? I can't tell tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpst Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 For those of you who don't want to watch Snuka and think he shouldn't be honored in any way because of the very credible murder allegations, why are you okay with watching Vince and WWE for all these years? Vince allegedly played a large role in ensuring that justice wasn't served in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 So by that definition was he acquitted or not acquitted? I can't tell tbh. Not acquitted because there was no finding on guilt. There was, however, a finding on competency, namely that Snuka was incompetent to stand trial. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/incompetence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 From all accounts, it seems many of these huge news organisations confused the terms "dismissed" and "acquitted". Both are non-convictions, but one is a non-guilty finding where the case cannot be retried (acquittal) and the other is merely a dismissal of the case at present (which is what happened to Snuka). Incompetency doesn't render a defendant not-guilty, it merely means that they cannot face trial due to an inability to feasibly defend themselves. A test of incompetence can be overturned at a later date, and the defendant will stand trial again. In the case of Snuka, as far as I know, the prosecutors moved for the case to be dismissed and Snuka sent for treatment, after he was found unable to stand trial. If he hadn't passed, and was seen fit enough at a later stage, the case could have been reopened, something that could not be done if he was acquitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 This wasn't something I knew about until recently (Vince's role in the cover up). But to an earlier point Vince McMahon has no decency. It's as simple as that. Neither does WWE. Never has and never will. At some point we choose to keep watching what is one of the scummiest, sleaziest, businesses around. Wrestling is still run by people who have an outspoken fundamental contempt and hatred for their own audience and come out and say it any chance they get. It is run by people who encourage and all but force a lifestyle that has killed how many people? Imagine if 40% of the 1985 MLB roster were dead, we'd have an investigation of epic proportions. But because wrestling has been and always will be a little sideshow carnival at best its allowed to get away with being what is is. Yet we still watch. Why? I'm not really sure and things like this make me question my own fundamental decency. I'm no better than anyone else here. I'll still watch old footage and talk about old matches. I don't give Vince McMahon $ but I still watch old product of his. That makes me no better than the worst. I will say this Parv, it is completely obvious that something very cruel and sick happened to Snuka's girlfriend and rather than see justice done, Vince helped his star get away with at least manslaughter. Do we have proof positive of this in a court of law? No we don't. We also don't have proof Hitler ever ordered the Holocaust. Sometimes, when it's clear a crime has been committed and the system fails to provide justice, we as citizens have to make a choice of whether or not to just go along with it or not. If you choose to go along with it every time, well fine that's your right. But not all of us do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Mentioning that he was brought back years ago with no fuss outside the hardcore bubble ignores the fact that the retrial attempts got a lot of attention the last year or so. More people are aware of it now than back then, and it was noticeable when they cut back to the crowd after showing the video and there was a palpable sense of uneasiness. Half the crowd was standing and cheering and half had a look of "uhhh, did they really just do that". On top of all the did--he-or-didn't-he stuff, the final photo from Tamina's Twitter of her holding her presumably deceased father's hand struck me as something entirely too personal to be something added to a video meant for public consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 The part that there's only minimal proof of is what Vince/the office did after the fact. I buy the family's claim that they were offered hush money. I buy that Vince joined him for the last police interview (the one that wasn't recorded). But it's absolutely possible that there was little to no direct pressure on law enforcement by police and they just felt they had to do a favor to a celebrity who was part of a business that was part of the local economy. The "Snuka pretended to be a feral jungle warrior who couldn't speak English" story is probably not true since Snuka had already been interviewed extensively. But based on an honest reading of the facts, the likelihood that Snuka didn't cause the fatal head injury is basically nil. He told everyone some variation of a story that held him responsible (either "horsing around" or during an argument, he shoved her and she hit her head) until she died. Then he started saying she slipped and fell when she went to urinate by the side of the road, which the autopsy proves false because there was no evidence on the body indicating that she fell outdoors. He's never said that anyone else was there. Also, even if some variation of the letter story is true, he still told police that he left Nancy mumbling, incoherent, and barely conscious in their motel room when it was obvious that she was in serious condition. He left her there for hours to tape TV, and she was on death's door when he got back. Before he left, all he did was dab her head with a washcloth. There's literally no feasible scenario where Snuka wasn't at least partially responsible for Argentino's death. Even if by some chance he didn't cause the injury, he absolutely left her in their motel room to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Well, guys, you've convinced me, let's mobilise twitter forces. Let's get the pitchforks out. Let's ensure that all major outrage squads are set to red alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Edgelord anti-snowflake rhetoric and centrist liberalism is something I did not think would go hand in hand Murder is good I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I agree, it's VERY important that we come out strongly with the message to Vince and the WWE that Murder is Bad. We shouldn't stand for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 So now that Parv has been thoroughly proven wrong, time to turn the smarm and assholishness up to 11 I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Wow. this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Parv is just being an hideous troll at this point. Just deplorable. He'd be gone if I were a mod. On top of all the did--he-or-didn't-he stuff, the final photo from Tamina's Twitter of her holding her presumably deceased father's hand struck me as something entirely too personal to be something added to a video meant for public consumption. Agreed. Honestly, I already was baffled by the fact she would take a photo of that amazingly intimate, strong and sad moment in life and post it on Twitter, which is also a public forum. This kind of moment should be only shared with the closest family and friends. The way people use social media to "share" intimate parts of their life is just insane to me, but that's another debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 On top of all the did--he-or-didn't-he stuff, the final photo from Tamina's Twitter of her holding her presumably deceased father's hand struck me as something entirely too personal to be something added to a video meant for public consumption. What do you mean? I wouldn't have done what she did, if that was me and my dad. But she put it up on social media, didn't she? I highly doubt they ran that image without her okay. On top of all the did--he-or-didn't-he stuff, the final photo from Tamina's Twitter of her holding her presumably deceased father's hand struck me as something entirely too personal to be something added to a video meant for public consumption. Agreed. Honestly, I already was baffled by the fact she would take a photo of that amazingly intimate, strong and sad moment in life and post it on Twitter, which is also a public forum. This kind of moment should be only shared with the closest family and friends. The way people use social media to "share" intimate parts of their life is just insane to me, but that's another debate. That's what I would do. But honestly one thing I don't think should be morally policed is how other people handle grief and the death of family and loved ones--unless we're talking something way out there in terms of explotation. This wasn't that. Everyone copes and handles death differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I have to wonder where the people who were really upset about the tribute video stand on watching anything produced by the McMahons considering everyone seems to think Vince was involved in the cover up. Or watching Benoit matches. Or watching Moolah matches. Or all of the other terrible, terrible wrestlers that have done terrible, terrible things. Where does one draw the line in a profession built on terrible people and terrible things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I have to wonder where the people who were really upset about the tribute video stand on watching anything produced by the McMahons considering everyone seems to think Vince was involved in the cover up. Or watching Benoit matches. Or watching Moolah matches. Or all of the other terrible, terrible wrestlers that have done terrible, terrible things. Where does one draw the line in a profession built on terrible people and terrible things? Personally, I like to use wrestling as an opportunity to virtue signal whenever I can. That's the really important thing: that everyone knows I'm against bad things like murder and am for good things like justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 This "domestic violence, it ain't no thing" attitude on display is really disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 I have to wonder where the people who were really upset about the tribute video stand on watching anything produced by the McMahons considering everyone seems to think Vince was involved in the cover up. Or watching Benoit matches. Or watching Moolah matches. Or all of the other terrible, terrible wrestlers that have done terrible, terrible things. Where does one draw the line in a profession built on terrible people and terrible things? It seems like lionizing and/or overly whitewashing is where most people draw the line--at least in terms of what WWE should do. IMO, you can see similar types of debates when it comes to memorials or statutes for things like confederate 'war heroes' or other important historical figures who have very complicated or dark legacies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 This "domestic violence, it ain't no thing" attitude on display is really disgusting. To be fair, I think the argument is more that we all know wrestling is full of and run by sleazy people so anyone appalled at sleazy behavior must be white knighting or some such thing. To use the parlance of his people, Parv is just being a bell-end at this point just for the sake of doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Did the tribute video say anything about Snuka as a person and outside of the ring or was it all on screen performer related? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianB Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Did the tribute video say anything about Snuka as a person and outside of the ring or was it all on screen performer related? More performer, but also some for his family and his wider impact on fans and other wrestlers. You can watch it here : http://www.wwe.com/videos/wwe-honors-the-life-of-superfly-jimmy-snuka It's about 3 1/2 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Eh, seems like the normal tribute they give to all the scum bags that die. Hard to pick this one to be more upset at than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 That's what I would do. But honestly one thing I don't think should be morally policed is how other people handle grief and the death of family and loved ones--unless we're talking something way out there in terms of explotation. This wasn't that. Everyone copes and handles death differently. Of course. Not judging. But I admit when I saw that picture on her Twitter than was linked to the annoncement of Snuka's death, I was like "I did not need to see this. I have no business in this hospital room with the family." But to me it goes beyond grief, it's about people's life in general. I don't get people posting unprotected pics of their children all the time on FB or Instagram either. It's a broad issue which, like I said, has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Eh, seems like the normal tribute they give to all the scum bags that die. Hard to pick this one to be more upset at than others. Because it's been just a few weeks ago that Nancy Argentino's family was denied justice and that it's a known fact that Snuka, at the very least, is responsible for letting that girl die. Yeah, tons of pro-wrestlers are (were ?) sleazebags. But very few are pretty sure responsible for the death of other human beings. Benoit is one. Snuka is another. So, a graphic would have been more than enough, really. The reaction live was indeed super awkward, which pretty much tells the story too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 Some of you guys should get together to form the Wrestling Detective Agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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