ThROH The Years: A ROH retrospective podcast

[Hobbes]

Ep 2 is up! (Link and description deeper in the thread)

Pleased as punch to finally announce me and Matt Feuerstein's new ongoing podcast project: ThROH The Years. We're going to be review every ROH event (Until we get tired of it) starting from the first show. Obviously the timing has turned out to be great/strange, and I think 15 years is just long enough to where these shows can be looked back at from a fresh perspective. To the best of my knowledge no one else is doing it yet in podcast form either. Where The Big Boys play is a show Matt and I are fans of and an obvious influence.

First episode is up, a nearly 160 minute whopper where we discuss ROH as a whole and our history with the company before we review the first ROH show ever: The Era of Honor Begins. It features Super Crazy vs. Eddie Guerrero, Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Christopher Daniels, Spanky holding a bag of Wendy's, Eric The Towel Boy, and the most homophobic segment in pro wrestling history.

It was a ton of fun to make. It was my first time hosting and I feel I was slightly rough but I'll get better and overall I think we made a nice little podcast for you to listen to. Write to us with any comments or questions at [email protected] or hey, by posting here. And please somebody tell me what Spanky orders from Wendy's, seriously.

 

http://www.thecubsfan.com/2017/03/26/throh-the-years-episode-1-the-era-of-honor-begins/

[Calvin]

I'll give it a listen during my commute & might even watch along with you guys! Would love to see how these shows hold up.

[Hobbes]

I wish those early DVDs were still in print so it would be easier for people to follow along! I would love to hear from as many people as possible who decide to watch along.

[smitlick]

This looks awesome thanks

[fakeplastictrees]

Listened to it today. The 'We wear masks!' thing, I believe was meant to illustrate that those two did so much dirt just to stay alive growing up, that they need to wear masks as some of this dirt may be connected to charges still pending and/or old grudges not dying (so much to the point that there is a hit out on them).

[soup23]

Only have an hour to go but thanks for citing WTBBP as a influence on this pod. I have enjoyed seeing the chemistry develop over the pod as Hobbes is getting more comfortable in the host role. The discussion has also been strong in showcasing the trajectory and time frame of the workers within this show.

 

In regards to the lack of vulgarity at the CSC thing, I think it is a combination of unfourtnatly the time frame of 2002 but also just how prelevant this was throughout indies in the 2000. The BackSeat Boys routinely got slurs chanted with them and IWA-MS had a weekly chants of anti gay sentiment.

[BigBadMick]

About an hour in, enjoying it.

 

How often are you hoping to do these shows?

[MFoy]

About an hour in, enjoying it.

 

How often are you hoping to do these shows?

Thanks!

 

There's no set schedule. It depends on how busy we are at any given time. At the moment, we're tentatively planning to record the next one in about two weeks.

[Calvin]

You guys did an excellent job breaking the show down. I re-watched Era of Honor Begins earlier -- well, bits & pieces of it anyways -- the main event was still the classic I remember it to be. (I wrote about the match here). Great job - and I'm looking forward to the next show!

[Hobbes]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, it's very much appreciated.

[SteveJRogers]

 

Pleased as punch to finally announce me and Matt Feuerstein's new ongoing podcast project: ThROH The Years. We're going to be review every ROH event (Until we get tired of it) starting from the first show. Obviously the timing has turned out to be great/strange, and I think 15 years is just long enough to where these shows can be looked back at from a fresh perspective. To the best of my knowledge no one else is doing it yet in podcast form either. Where The Big Boys play is a show Matt and I are fans of and an obvious influence.

First episode is up, a nearly 160 minute whopper where we discuss ROH as a whole and our history with the company before we review the first ROH show ever: The Era of Honor Begins. It features Super Crazy vs. Eddie Guerrero, Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Christopher Daniels, Spanky holding a bag of Wendy's, Eric The Towel Boy, and the most homophobic segment in pro wrestling history.

It was a ton of fun to make. It was my first time hosting and I feel I was slightly rough but I'll get better and overall I think we made a nice little podcast for you to listen to. Write to us with any comments or questions at [email protected] or hey, by posting here. And please somebody tell me what Spanky orders from Wendy's, seriously.

 

http://www.thecubsfan.com/2017/03/26/throh-the-years-episode-1-the-era-of-honor-begins/

 

 

For some reason its not on the List'em and Learn feed on iTunes. I've refreshed it this morning.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Oh fuck yeah. Foy FTW.

[MFoy]

 

 

Pleased as punch to finally announce me and Matt Feuerstein's new ongoing podcast project: ThROH The Years. We're going to be review every ROH event (Until we get tired of it) starting from the first show. Obviously the timing has turned out to be great/strange, and I think 15 years is just long enough to where these shows can be looked back at from a fresh perspective. To the best of my knowledge no one else is doing it yet in podcast form either. Where The Big Boys play is a show Matt and I are fans of and an obvious influence.

First episode is up, a nearly 160 minute whopper where we discuss ROH as a whole and our history with the company before we review the first ROH show ever: The Era of Honor Begins. It features Super Crazy vs. Eddie Guerrero, Low Ki vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Christopher Daniels, Spanky holding a bag of Wendy's, Eric The Towel Boy, and the most homophobic segment in pro wrestling history.

It was a ton of fun to make. It was my first time hosting and I feel I was slightly rough but I'll get better and overall I think we made a nice little podcast for you to listen to. Write to us with any comments or questions at [email protected] or hey, by posting here. And please somebody tell me what Spanky orders from Wendy's, seriously.

 

http://www.thecubsfan.com/2017/03/26/throh-the-years-episode-1-the-era-of-honor-begins/

 

 

For some reason its not on the List'em and Learn feed on iTunes. I've refreshed it this morning.

 

It should be up now.

[Laney]

Only have an hour to go but thanks for citing WTBBP as a influence on this pod. I have enjoyed seeing the chemistry develop over the pod as Hobbes is getting more comfortable in the host role. The discussion has also been strong in showcasing the trajectory and time frame of the workers within this show.

 

In regards to the lack of vulgarity at the CSC thing, I think it is a combination of unfourtnatly the time frame of 2002 but also just how prelevant this was throughout indies in the 2000. The BackSeat Boys routinely got slurs chanted with them and IWA-MS had a weekly chants of anti gay sentiment.

 

I've started listening to the podcast and will try to follow along with the re-watch. I got into ROH in 2003 and wasted way too much of my time in high school watching the shows and going on the message board. It will be fun to look back at everything.

 

I have to echo what soup23 is saying, in 2017 eyes the CSC angle at the beginning of the show is highly offensive, but at the time it wouldn't warrant any special attention since you were seeing it all over. CSC was doing the same gimmick all over the east coast and we are nearing the time frame when AJ Styles basically starts using the word "faggot" as a catchphrase. I think this is more of a sign of the times rather than ROH trying to be edgy. I was in jr. high in 2002, so I can't speak for the rest of the world, but homophobic slurs was something I heard daily in my environment.

 

To defend ROH, CSC was a known gimmick used in the NYC area where they were running. If you were going to pick a gimmick to bring in to squash as a statement that you are about wrestling and not sports entertainment, then I think CSC is absolutely your perfect choice. I 100% believe that the intention of the angle was to establish that ROH wasn't about gimmicks. Unfortunately, the commentary is completely abhorrent and it pretty much turns this into a gay bashing segment. Without the commentary track, I think this segment would be much less offensive.

 

On a side note, I was at a CZW Dojo Wars show near Philly last December and the crowd started chanting "that was gay". So much for social progression amongst wrestling fans.

 

I was surprised at how much I enjoyed Xavier vs Scoot Andrews as compared to Red vs Jay Briscoe. I remember the Xavier/Andrews mini-feud was largely panned at the time with the thought being that those guys just didn't click, and I certainly preferred the Red/Briscoe match when I first watched this 14 years ago (even though I do remember thinking the top rope spear spot was ridiculous at that time too). It's kind of funny how the matches have aged and I know prefer the Xavier/Andrews match.

 

I might provide more thoughts as I finish the podcast and my rewatch of the show.

[MFoy]

 

Only have an hour to go but thanks for citing WTBBP as a influence on this pod. I have enjoyed seeing the chemistry develop over the pod as Hobbes is getting more comfortable in the host role. The discussion has also been strong in showcasing the trajectory and time frame of the workers within this show.

 

In regards to the lack of vulgarity at the CSC thing, I think it is a combination of unfourtnatly the time frame of 2002 but also just how prelevant this was throughout indies in the 2000. The BackSeat Boys routinely got slurs chanted with them and IWA-MS had a weekly chants of anti gay sentiment.

 

I've started listening to the podcast and will try to follow along with the re-watch. I got into ROH in 2003 and wasted way too much of my time in high school watching the shows and going on the message board. It will be fun to look back at everything.

 

I have to echo what soup23 is saying, in 2017 eyes the CSC angle at the beginning of the show is highly offensive, but at the time it wouldn't warrant any special attention since you were seeing it all over. CSC was doing the same gimmick all over the east coast and we are nearing the time frame when AJ Styles basically starts using the word "faggot" as a catchphrase. I think this is more of a sign of the times rather than ROH trying to be edgy. I was in jr. high in 2002, so I can't speak for the rest of the world, but homophobic slurs was something I heard daily in my environment.

 

To defend ROH, CSC was a known gimmick used in the NYC area where they were running. If you were going to pick a gimmick to bring in to squash as a statement that you are about wrestling and not sports entertainment, then I think CSC is absolutely your perfect choice. I 100% believe that the intention of the angle was to establish that ROH wasn't about gimmicks. Unfortunately, the commentary is completely abhorrent and it pretty much turns this into a gay bashing segment. Without the commentary track, I think this segment would be much less offensive.

 

To me, "we weren't the only ones" isn't a good excuse. Yes, junior high school kids can be homophobic, and probably have only recently gotten better about that. That also is not a good excuse for a promotion that sells tickets to its events and sells DVDs of them, and that is run by adults, to peddle that same sort of homophobia.

 

Wrestling is a gross industry when it comes to portrayals of any sort of marginalized group. I know that, and I've known it for many years. In 2002, though, this sort of aggressive homophobia was not acceptable in the culture at large. Obviously society in general has come a long way in accepting lgbtq people since then, but at the time you wouldn't find another show on TV, or a movie, angrily mocking gays in the same way. Wrestling in general was behind the curve, not just ROH, but that doesn't make it okay. And, like you said, the commentary was so aggressively hostile that it puts this segment on another level from anything else I've seen.

 

Thank you for listening. I really enjoy these conversations and I'm glad you're watching along with us.

[Laney]

 

 

Only have an hour to go but thanks for citing WTBBP as a influence on this pod. I have enjoyed seeing the chemistry develop over the pod as Hobbes is getting more comfortable in the host role. The discussion has also been strong in showcasing the trajectory and time frame of the workers within this show.

 

In regards to the lack of vulgarity at the CSC thing, I think it is a combination of unfourtnatly the time frame of 2002 but also just how prelevant this was throughout indies in the 2000. The BackSeat Boys routinely got slurs chanted with them and IWA-MS had a weekly chants of anti gay sentiment.

 

I've started listening to the podcast and will try to follow along with the re-watch. I got into ROH in 2003 and wasted way too much of my time in high school watching the shows and going on the message board. It will be fun to look back at everything.

 

I have to echo what soup23 is saying, in 2017 eyes the CSC angle at the beginning of the show is highly offensive, but at the time it wouldn't warrant any special attention since you were seeing it all over. CSC was doing the same gimmick all over the east coast and we are nearing the time frame when AJ Styles basically starts using the word "faggot" as a catchphrase. I think this is more of a sign of the times rather than ROH trying to be edgy. I was in jr. high in 2002, so I can't speak for the rest of the world, but homophobic slurs was something I heard daily in my environment.

 

To defend ROH, CSC was a known gimmick used in the NYC area where they were running. If you were going to pick a gimmick to bring in to squash as a statement that you are about wrestling and not sports entertainment, then I think CSC is absolutely your perfect choice. I 100% believe that the intention of the angle was to establish that ROH wasn't about gimmicks. Unfortunately, the commentary is completely abhorrent and it pretty much turns this into a gay bashing segment. Without the commentary track, I think this segment would be much less offensive.

 

To me, "we weren't the only ones" isn't a good excuse. Yes, junior high school kids can be homophobic, and probably have only recently gotten better about that. That also is not a good excuse for a promotion that sells tickets to its events and sells DVDs of them, and that is run by adults, to peddle that same sort of homophobia.

 

Wrestling is a gross industry when it comes to portrayals of any sort of marginalized group. I know that, and I've known it for many years. In 2002, though, this sort of aggressive homophobia was not acceptable in the culture at large. Obviously society in general has come a long way in accepting lgbtq people since then, but at the time you wouldn't find another show on TV, or a movie, angrily mocking gays in the same way. Wrestling in general was behind the curve, not just ROH, but that doesn't make it okay. And, like you said, the commentary was so aggressively hostile that it puts this segment on another level from anything else I've seen.

 

Thank you for listening. I really enjoy these conversations and I'm glad you're watching along with us.

 

 

I agree with you on the media portrayal of homosexuality in 2002, I can't think of any other case besides wrestling where there was such an extreme portrayal of homophobia. I concede that wrestling really is a nasty place and should not be used as a litmus test for what is socially acceptable at the time. The indies can be even worse since so many of them attempt to be edgy. There is so much offensive stuff that happens that it gets glossed over and is forgotten about. This is an industry where Kevin Steen repeatedly used the n-word in a PWG promo in 2006, and it remained unedited on the DVD.

 

Just an interesting tidbit, to try to get a feel for the attitude towards homosexuality at this time, I found this article from 2002: http://www.gallup.com/poll/9916/homosexuality.aspx I find it surprising that only 52% of people thought that homosexuality should be legal.

 

With all that said, I think that is the last that I will say about this angle. Regardless of the time period, it is very much offensive and serves as nothing more than an embarrassing blemish when looking back on ROH history.

[supersonic]

When I'd loan out ROH DVDs back in the day, I'd always warn to not watch the first 20 minutes in company history. It deserves every bit of venom received, would make for an appropriate WrestleCrap HOF induction, and hopefully one day gets scrutinized by the Lapsed Fan, who would mock it to unfathomably merciless depths.

[Hobbes]

http://www.thecubsfan.com/2017/04/10/throh-the-years-episode-2-the-round-robin-challenge/

 

We gave you time to get over your Mania week hangovers but now it's time for the second episode of ThROH The Years! We thank some listeners and use a couple of their contributions, delve into the fascinating world of what Dave Meltzer thought of indie wrestling/ROH/guys like Daniel Bryan 15 years ago, and then review ROH's second show, Round Robin Challenge. American Dragon vs. Christopher Daniels! Low Ki vs. American Dragon! Frank Talent! Talk about human excrement! Hobbes keeps his mic steady and has notes! Three hours of discussion! Come listen to the only ROH podcast that started in 2017 that ends an episode with talk of triple dating Daniel Bryan, it's ThROH The Years!

[Johnny Sorrow]

JAPW booked The Christopher Street Connection as babyfaces who eventually expose the manager who hates them as a guy who wants to kiss men, and it ruled. Us JAPW fans adored the CSC as our Jimmy Valiant...a Mid card act that's beloved who fued with a manager.

[Calvin]

Halfway through the second episode - and coincidentally halfway through the actual show, as well. Great stuff, guys. Keeps my commute interesting.

[Laney]

Great listen. Round Robin Challenge was the first ROH show I bought (second that I watched) and it was what really got me hooked. Low-Ki vs American Dragon is an all-time classic in my eyes. A few notes:

 

It appeared to me that American Dragon's eyebrow was cut open from a palm strike by Christopher Daniels.

 

I also seem to recall that the Carnage Crew debuted on this show, but it ended up being cut.

 

Frank Talent seemed like a guy that really enjoyed his job. I'm not sure the specifics of the PA State Athletic Commission, but I believe this is around the time that they were trying to crack down on the violence. CZW was the biggest target of the Commission and I recall hearing that Frank Talent stood up for CZW in multiple occasions and felt that they were unfairly picked on. This post from November 2002 discussed that the PA commission has just made the decision to ban barbed wire, light tubes, and brawing in the crowd. I believe the regulations evolved further over time and you don't see hardcore/deathmatches in PA like you did in the heyday. All of the violence seems to have moved to Jersey.

 

This is pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if Frank Talent was trying to use ROH as an example to show others in the commission that pro wrestling on the independent level isn't all extreme violence and that they need to ease up on some of the proposed regulations.

[Hobbes]

Thanks for the compliments everyone!

 

Johnny: I really need to see some JAPW because the CSC seem great at their act but ill suited in early ROH.

 

Lane: Thanks for the stuff about Frank Talent, that kind of stuff is really interesting to me.

 

Next episode should be up next Sunday-ish, will post here when it is.

[jpchicago23]

I'm really digging the show as I'm currently diving into the 2000's indy scene myself. I was a little put off by the amount of time spent on the CSC angle as I think the show became focused on that but overall it has been great. Look forward to more episodes.

[Hobbes]

Episode three of ThROH The Years is here!

 

On this episode Matt and Trevor review ROH's third show, Night of Appreciation. AJ Styles' ROH debut! Is Donnie B the worst announcer in wrestling history? Spanky has a major wardrobe malfunction! A gauntlet series with a surprising good match and a surprisingly disappointing one! Eddie Guerrero delivers one of the most raw real emotional moments in wrestling at a crazy crossroads in his life. We talk about it all and more!

 

http://http://media.blubrry.com/joeversustheworld/www.thecubsfan.com/jvstw/ThROHTheYearsEpisode3-ANightofAppreciation.mp3

[Calvin]

Shoot, I'mma need to find time to re-watch Night of Appreciation before listening to this. Good to see this back in my podcast feed for the week, though.