Comments that don't warrant a thread

[Al]

Probably that he's a horrible wrestler who isn't good enough to compete on the main roster, and has absolutely nothing going for him.

Is Carlito possibly our era's Erik Watts?

[Jingus]

Probably that he's a horrible wrestler who isn't good enough to compete on the main roster, and has absolutely nothing going for him.

It's the WWE, since when has that stopped them? This is the same company which wanted viewers to pay to watch an apparently retarded midget "wrestle" a giant broomstick last night.

[Bix]

Carlito is neither a giant nor a midget.

[tomk]

There is a lot of Bolivian wrestling thats started to show up on youtube in the last year or so.

 

You're Al Jazeera documentary in two parts:

 

Stripped of all culural context for Magaly Medina controversial Peruvian personality show (awesome use of Nation of Domination theme):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKvfyHLKh8Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbjpPTh55eQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVekGRHA3AE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvs10LAbe2c

[kjh]

Probably that he's a horrible wrestler who isn't good enough to compete on the main roster, and has absolutely nothing going for him.

It's the WWE, since when has that stopped them?

When that wrestler thinks he's got nothing left to learn, ignores managements demands to work harder at house shows to improve his in ring ability and then arrogantly mouths off to a newspaper reporter that it's a travesty he's not on the main WrestleMania card, but he doesn't politic and kiss ass like others.

[Phil Schneider]

Probably that he's a horrible wrestler who isn't good enough to compete on the main roster, and has absolutely nothing going for him.

Your Carlito hate is weird, I am months behind on Smackdown and rarely watch RAW, but both his PPV match with Flair and post Crossgate SD match with Flair were very good.

[Loss]

Ric Flair has a history of occasionally making people look better than they really are.

[Loss]

I'll admit most of my problem isn't with Carlito the wrestler, as much as it is Carlito the gimmick. Not that the gimmick itself is terribly offensive, but he really looks stupid wearing a T-shirt doing it. He should be wearing this crazy over-the-top costume, similar to the loud pants and bright shirts Razor Ramon wore when he wasn't in his wrestling gear.

 

I think when top guys complain about young guys without mentioning them by name, most of the time they're referring to Carlito. You're talking about a guy who actually came in with the company pretty strongly behind him and managed to screw it all up by not taking ownership of his career.

[Tim Evans]

Well isn't the story that the only reason he's in wrestling is because his dad made him? He's this generation's Mike Von Erich.

[Jingus]

Your Carlito hate is weird, I am months behind on Smackdown and rarely watch RAW, but both his PPV match with Flair and post Crossgate SD match with Flair were very good.

Yeah, where did the massive Carlito backlash online come from, anyway? Admittedly, I barely ever watched Raw during the time when people started complaining about it, but from the little I've seen Carlito looked... well, about as good as anyone looks in the typical 4-minute undercard matches. And when he's given more time, like the Flair bouts, he seemed to do just fine. He's sure a hell of a lot better than when he started back on '04, when he was nothing but chinlocks and feet on the ropes. Where did the "Carlito's lazy" meme originate, specifically?

[Tim Evans]

I think it was his face turn that started it. He was pretty good on Smackdown and I don't think they should have ever took him off the show. I remember he was with Maria when he came to Raw. He wasn't bad there either. Then they teamed him with Masters and he started to suck. After he turned on Masters, he just didn't have the passion and you could tell he wanted to leave.

[Mad Dog]

The backlash is due to him being a smark flavor of the month when he started. He's always been a bad wrestler, it just took the net fans awhile to see through the gimmick. Plus, there's no middle ground on the net anymore. Either you're the best thing ever or you're the suckiest thing to ever suck.

[Al]

Well isn't the story that the only reason he's in wrestling is because his dad made him? He's this generation's Mike Von Erich.

I wonder if being a promoter's son is a huge issue. It seems a fair share of the worst second-generation wrestlers come from such families.

[Mad Dog]

I think it's a case of them being pushed too hard as promoters sons. They wouldn't be as hated or known if they were pushed to where their abilities warranted.

[Al]

I think it's a case of them being pushed too hard as promoters sons. They wouldn't be as hated or known if they were pushed to where their abilities warranted.

I'm thinking more of how many of them never wanted to be wrestlers in the first place?

[Loss]

When did the backlash start? I wasn't aware Carlito was ever liked.

[Phil Schneider]

Well isn't the story that the only reason he's in wrestling is because his dad made him? He's this generation's Mike Von Erich.

I wonder if being a promoter's son is a huge issue. It seems a fair share of the worst second-generation wrestlers come from such families.

 

Tully Blanchard? David Von Erich? Kevin Von Erich? Kerry Von Erich? Gino Hernandez? Eddie Guerrerro? Chavo Guerrerro? Hector Guerrerro? Mondo Guerrerro? Dory Funk Jr.? Terry Funk?

[Mad Dog]

When did the backlash start? I wasn't aware Carlito was ever liked.

There was a huge amount of "omg he spits an apple, he's the best wrestler evah!!!" when he first started. I know I got in a lot of arguments with people during his early days because I had actually seen him wrestle several times and knew he sucked.

[Al]

Well isn't the story that the only reason he's in wrestling is because his dad made him? He's this generation's Mike Von Erich.

I wonder if being a promoter's son is a huge issue. It seems a fair share of the worst second-generation wrestlers come from such families.

 

Tully Blanchard? David Von Erich? Kevin Von Erich? Kerry Von Erich? Gino Hernandez? Eddie Guerrerro? Chavo Guerrerro? Hector Guerrerro? Mondo Guerrerro? Dory Funk Jr.? Terry Funk?

 

Not all of them of course. But we've had Erik Watts, Mike Graham, Greg Gagne, Carly Colon, etc.

[Mad Dog]

Greg Gagne wasn't a bad wrestler per say. The High Flyers tag team was really good. The problem with Greg became when he had to become a singles wrestler and they pushed him too hard.

[Al]

Greg Gagne wasn't a bad wrestler per say. The High Flyers tag team was really good. The problem with Greg became when he had to become a singles wrestler and they pushed him too hard.

Agreed. Even in terms of ability Gagne wasn't bad, he was just too small.

[sek69]

I guess I'm too cynical, but when they announced Flair returning next week in Charlotte, my first thought was "I guess they need a new 'emotional return' scene for the video montages since Benoit is in the background in the WCW one".

[tomk]

When did the backlash start? I wasn't aware Carlito was ever liked.

I liked him.

Carlito was fine as poor man's Ricky Santana as heel on Smackdown and RAW.

It's when he turned face that it all fell apart.

 

I mean I watched him in Puerto Rico and he never was a very good face but he showed up in WWE and he seemed to know exactly what people where doing to carry him, exactly how to feed a face their comebacks. This was the weird period where WWE was bringing in guys and not giving them finishers (Carlito had a roll up, Cena was using a chain, etc).

 

They did briefly saddle him with Elix Skippers finisher which is a really shitty finisher (I think they stuck that on MVP at one point too) and made no sense within the context of the matches he was working.

 

They saddled him with some shitty tag partners (Aguilera, Matt morgan, Chris Masters) and he wasn't exactly Tully carrying the team of Tully/Luger but was good in that role (and honestly Aguilera, Morgan, and Masters were no 89 Luger).

 

He moved to RAW and was a good foil for guys like Cena, HBK, and Flair.

 

He was then paired with Shelton and eventually turned heel. Him working Shelton Benjamin style match was attrocious. Oddly the whole "He's lazy" meme started during that period. He had changed and started working a workrate highspot Shelton Benjamin style...and was being called lazy. He wasn't working smart at all and absolutely sucked. But he was working the opposite of lazy.

[S.L.L.]

They did briefly saddle him with Elix Skippers finisher which is a really shitty finisher (I think they stuck that on MVP at one point too) and made no sense within the context of the matches he was working.

MVP still has it. I always thought he was the one guy who made that move work in the context of his style, as his gimmick was "shitty overrated guy", and that's a classic shitty overrated guy move. Really wanted him to start busting out the Canadian Destroyer and the Lungblower (which, appropriately enough, became Carlito's finisher after the Overdrive) as secondary finishers, or start adding needless pumphandles to moves. Still, he's not doing "shitty overrated guy" anymore, so it doesn't really fit now.

[Guest *FH*]

When did the backlash start? I wasn't aware Carlito was ever liked.

I liked him.

Carlito was fine as poor man's Ricky Santana as heel on Smackdown and RAW.

It's when he turned face that it all fell apart.

 

I mean I watched him in Puerto Rico and he never was a very good face but he showed up in WWE and he seemed to know exactly what people where doing to carry him, exactly how to feed a face their comebacks. This was the weird period where WWE was bringing in guys and not giving them finishers (Carlito had a roll up, Cena was using a chain, etc).

 

They did briefly saddle him with Elix Skippers finisher which is a really shitty finisher (I think they stuck that on MVP at one point too) and made no sense within the context of the matches he was working.

 

They saddled him with some shitty tag partners (Aguilera, Matt morgan, Chris Masters) and he wasn't exactly Tully carrying the team of Tully/Luger but was good in that role (and honestly Aguilera, Morgan, and Masters were no 89 Luger).

 

He moved to RAW and was a good foil for guys like Cena, HBK, and Flair.

 

He was then paired with Shelton and eventually turned heel. Him working Shelton Benjamin style match was attrocious. Oddly the whole "He's lazy" meme started during that period. He had changed and started working a workrate highspot Shelton Benjamin style...and was being called lazy. He wasn't working smart at all and absolutely sucked. But he was working the opposite of lazy.

 

It seems to fit with WWE's SOP of pushing a guy for a while, then burying him to a degree in order to see if he can handle it and "stay loyal" (aka eat shit and smile, I guess). It's a shitty thing to do to someone, and you'd think it's counterproductive to the whole point of running a wrestling promotion (get guys over and make money off them), but it's Vince's world and business always plays second fiddle to the Chairman's personal kinks.

 

It's a wonder they didn't do that to MVP or Kennedy. I guess MVP getting word around that he was watching All Japan tapes and learning from Benoit saved him from that. Kennedy shot himself in the foot and ended up depushed anyway, which is pretty funny.