S.L.L. Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Alright, internet. Explain to me how CM Punk is getting buried now. One interesting thing about last night's show that I wanted to mention was that we had Rey Mysterio and John Cena cutting promos in which they both made a big deal out of congratulating CM Punk on his win. Reminded me a little of when Bret won his first title, and in the weeks that followed, you had a number of top babyfaces cutting promos congratulating him. Not something I've recalled them doing since then, and I don't know if it's really indicative of anything, but Punk getting the seal of approval from other top faces was kind of a neat touch and left me thinking they were serious about running with him on top. I don't know if they are, but that's the vibe it gave me. Those who are complaining about how it happened think it made Punk look weak because he cashed in moments after Batista beat down Edge. Eh. They're not totally wrong, but the circumstances here were almost identical to how Edge cashed in MITB last year, and wrestling has long allowed "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" as an acceptable justification for actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I've always preferred desperate, back-against-the-wall Vince to a Vince who's doing well and sees no reason to change anything,What did you think of WWF in the year 2000? They were enjoying heretofore unheard-of financial success, WCW was a joke which couldn't do anything right, but still the whole year is largely regarded as an artistic success as well. 2000 was obviously a great year, largely because they didn't spend the year tied to a formula or in holding pattern. They were constantly trying new things and working hard to keep storyline continuity, to a point where everyone noticed how strange it was when HHH and Rock teamed on a random episode of Smackdown. If, say, Jericho and JBL, just to pick a random example, team this Monday on RAW, no one will even think about it. The WWF was king in 2000, but they were hardly resting on their laurels the way they have been pretty much 95% of the time since 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 They were also sowing the seeds of their decline by cooling off Chris Jericho in mid card feuds with the likes of X-Pac and Kane after he got red hot in the spring of that year with the whole title change that never happened angle with Triple H, botching the ending of the Kurt Angle, Triple H and Stephanie love triangle, the ill conceived Rikishi heel turn, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DietSoda Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Question - Why did SD go to MyNetworkTV when it could have easily replaced ECW on Sci Fi (a network a lot more people actually get) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 re: The CMPunk reign...how long will it have to go to be considered a "success" by Punk lovers (and, I guess, wrestling fans in general)? I don't know what a "long" title reign constitutes these days, to be honest. If he makes threee months is he a successful, long-term champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Question - Why did SD go to MyNetworkTV when it could have easily replaced ECW on Sci Fi (a network a lot more people actually get) Smackdown wasn't part of the NBC Universal deal (which includes RAW/ECW/SNME). WWE wants to have a show on network TV as well as cable, and MyNetworkTV is really the only one that would take them. Plus they have the option of being far and away the #1 show on the network, since MyNetwork has pretty much zero in terms of marketable programming. Even though SD was the highest rated show on the CW, they at least had other programs with somewhat of an audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 WWE hopes that since Fox owns MNTV, if they get high enough ratings they can get the show on Fox. I'm sure that's not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 6, 2008 Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 Greatness in heeling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 WWE hopes that since Fox owns MNTV, if they get high enough ratings they can get the show on Fox. I'm sure that's not going to happen. I think Fox just wants Smackdown to give MNTV something close to a respectable rating. If they get anything close to what they did on the CW, it would put WWE in a position of calling the shots of sorts. Although not moving SD back to Thursdays is a sign that MNTV execs must be happy with the barely measurable ratings they currently get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 So Mickie Knuckles, who is working for TNA, broke her leg during a match at the IWA-MS show last night. Dave Meltzer noted at F4Wonline that it was pretty serious, comparing it to the injury Sid Vicious suffered on a WCW PPV back in 2001. How he describes how it happened makes me wonder again about the need for wrestlers to work safer styles: Knuckles was selling her leg from a leg submission, but did a dive off cinderblocks in the ring and for realism, did it while selling. She landed with almost all her weight on the right leg and the leg snapped above the knee in a manner compared to the ugly Sid Vicious injury on WCW television years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Safer Styles in IWA MS? Like that will ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 She wasn't even doing anything that extreme. It was essentially just a dive from the top to the floor. Every lucha match usually has at least one of those, not to mention every American or Japanese cruiserweight flippyfloppy match, or half the matches on any random ROH card. That's the thing about so many of the worst injuries: they generally don't happen because of some giant highspot, it's usually on the ordinary stuff that people do every night. Orton and Melina breaking bones on simple bumps out of the ring, Cena ripping himself giving a hiptoss, Triple H and Nash and Vince all tearing quads by walking, that kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 Jumping from a height and landing on one leg is pretty much guaranteeing bad things will happen, especially to bigger folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 A question from watching NWA on 24/7. They mention the '86 Great American Bash tour kicking off at Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia on July 1. Does anyone have a card and attendance figures from that event? That seems like a laughably oversized venue to hold a wrestling show. I found the results at titlebelt.net, but no attendance figures 7/1/86 Philadelphia Cage Match Dusty Rhodes & Road Warrior Animal beat Ole & Arn Anderson NWA Champion Ric Flair beat Road Warrior Hawk dq Nikita Koloff beat Magnum TA Rock & Roll Express & Baby Doll beat Midnight Express & Jim Cornette Jimmy Valiant beat Baron Von Raschke Ron Garvin beat Tully Blanchard Indian Strap match Wahoo McDaniel beat Jim Garvin Bunkhouse match Manny Fernandez beat Shaska Whatley Black Bart beat Todd Champion The Barbarian beat Denny Brown I was just reading an Observer from last year (the post-Backlash '07 issue) and there's a retrospective on the Horsemen, and Dave mentions that the show drew just over 10,000 with a gate of over $200K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Reading that lineup made me realize one aspect of the NWA vs WWF battle that seems to go unnoticed: NWA shows were always entirely too fucking long. Outside of TV tapings, major WWF shows always had the pacing to build up the enthusiasm , leading to the crescendo of the main event. NWA shows were always jam packed with guys who really didn't need to be on card, or trying to have every territory represented no matter how long it made the show run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lone Rogue Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 She wasn't even doing anything that extreme. True, but... why was she diving off cinderblocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 She wasn't even doing anything that extreme. True, but... why was she diving off cinderblocks? Because it was IWA-MS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Reading that lineup made me realize one aspect of the NWA vs WWF battle that seems to go unnoticed: NWA shows were always entirely too fucking long. Outside of TV tapings, major WWF shows always had the pacing to build up the enthusiasm , leading to the crescendo of the main event. NWA shows were always jam packed with guys who really didn't need to be on card, or trying to have every territory represented no matter how long it made the show run.It's only 10 matches. The WWF MSG shows of the time seemed to have around 9 to 11 matches each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Reading that lineup made me realize one aspect of the NWA vs WWF battle that seems to go unnoticed: NWA shows were always entirely too fucking long. Outside of TV tapings, major WWF shows always had the pacing to build up the enthusiasm , leading to the crescendo of the main event. NWA shows were always jam packed with guys who really didn't need to be on card, or trying to have every territory represented no matter how long it made the show run.It's only 10 matches. The WWF MSG shows of the time seemed to have around 9 to 11 matches each. MSG shows were pretty much just houseshows. This was supposed to be the kickoff to the biggest event of the summer and you have Black Bart vs Todd Champion? Major WWF shows didn't load up the jobbage like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 True, but... why was she diving off cinderblocks?No idea why, but it doesn't really matter. The height was still the same as a dive from the top rope to the floor, which is something you'll probably see at just about any wrestling show you ever go to. Well, as long as they're not in a building with a low ceiling anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Again, the key part isn't what she jumped off of, but that she landed on one leg because she was selling the leg injury from earlier in the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 It didn't even have anything to do with that. Did you see the footage? Del Ray was there to catch her, it was just pure "Sid jumps off the second turnbuckle" coincedence that Mickie came down in precisely the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Major WWF shows didn't load up the jobbage like that. First Wrestlemania started with Tito v Executioner followed by King Kong Bundy v SD Jones and then an under five minute Steamboat v Borne match. The 9/86 MSG card that I think I have somewhere on tape: http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/resul...eevent/1980.php 1. Moondogs vs The Islanders 2. Nick Kiniski vs Steve Lombardi 3. Billy Jack Haynes vs Bob Orton 4. Hart Foundation vs Rougeau Brothers 5. Ted Arcidi vs Tony Garea 6. Steve Regal vs Jose Louis Rivera 7. SD Jones vs Mr X 8. Harley Race vs Tito Santana 9. Sika vs Lanny Poffo 10. Hulk Machine, Big Machine & Super Machine vs John Studd, King Kong Bundy & Bobby Heenan. The Philadelphia show has two opener "jobbage" matches. "Jobbage" matches were traditionally put in different places on WWF cards. I assume Vince Sr. got a percentage of concessions, and well Vince Jr revolutionized the merch table. So your more likely to get one opener prelim match, a "get-you-to-the concession-stand" match in the middle of the card and maybe a heat killer match between the main and semi main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 The latest case of a random dude working a newspaper into thinking he was a big wrestling star. Do reporters not know how to use Google? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Whoa, I write for a paper called the Examiner. Sadly, that's not our paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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