Bob Morris Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Factoid from Dave: Warehouse 13, the show that aired in the ECW time slot on Syfy on Tuesday night did a 2.5 rating and 3.5 million viewers, roughly double what ECW usually gets. Don't expect that in a "Did You Know" this coming week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Looking forward to Jericho/Rey tonight ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jaedmc Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I'm excited about it too. I've gon Spoiler Free on Smackdown for the last couple of weeks and have no idea what happens in the match, but I'm thinking it's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Wow. That picture of Billy Jack Haynes in the ad on the Observer website looks far more like a picture of Bonnie Raitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Not seeing it. Can you post the pic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floyd Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Is this the pic you meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 The image isn't there anymore, but it was an advertisement for an upcoming shoot interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I tried to watch Smackdown tonight, but unfortunately lost satellite reception. That said, I picked up enough to notice that I really hate the new WWE announcing style. Say something, act excited. I don't understand Vince's new mindset that announcers who get excited during matches is too 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Seth Green to host Raw Monday http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/SethGreengm...w?cid=2009EP-00 I believe Green has always been a big wrestling fan as I spotted him in the crowd on an old episode of MSG Classics taunting the heels. He was probably 12 or 13 at the time (mid late 80s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jaedmc Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Pretty sure he's been shown in the crowd more recently. Like around the time the second Austin Powers movie came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Wow, that segment on Smackdown with R-Truth's new gimmick of "Pretty Ricky" is pretty much the most racist thing ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Yeah that was Kamala with Watermelon Memphis style gimmick right there. That said, Truth made it work as I laughed at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Seth Green to host Raw Monday http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/SethGreengm...w?cid=2009EP-00 I believe Green has always been a big wrestling fan as I spotted him in the crowd on an old episode of MSG Classics taunting the heels. He was probably 12 or 13 at the time (mid late 80s) Yeah, Green's a big fan. How many times has he thrown in wrestling stuff in the Robot Chicken series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hail Sabin Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 The Pretty Ricky stuff was really racist and I have no idea what the point of it was. Seth Green should be a good GM and he is a fan so that is a plus it will be interesting TV. Hopefully, they will kept the attempted humor skits to just a handful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jaedmc Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Actually between the Cryme Tyme Word Up stuff and Pretty Ricky, all I kept thinking about was that Triple H "Dance for Me" promo he cut on Booker T. Just towing the company line I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Reasons the Gorilla Monsoon criticism is valid: - I was watching Savage/Steamboat from Boston Gardens. Good match. The finish was Savage hitting Steamboat with a foreign object. Monsoon was insistent that Elizabeth handed it to him, even though she was on the other side of the ring, and the camera clearly caught Savage pulling it out of his tights. Jesse kept arguing with him that that wasn't what happened even in the post-match. Had he paid better attention to the match, he would have seen what happened. - Not knowing the rules of wrestling, which are that to break a hold, the wrestler has to be in the ropes, not just reaching out for them. So Savage would grab the rope to escape an armbar, the referee would kick his hand away, and Gorilla would bitch about how the referee was showing bias toward Steamboat (which is an illogical thing for a pro-babyface announcer to say) and that he should have released the hold. - I was watching Savage/Steamboat from Toronto. Another good match. The finish was Steamboat beating Savage back in the ring by one count and winning the match by COR. Gorilla kept going on about how the match was stopped due to blood loss, and that must have been why Steamboat was declared the winner, again not really paying attention to the match. Referees in 80s WWF are also often horrible, to a point where I think they sometimes took heat from the heels and put it on themselves. Jake/Steamboat from MSG in May '86 is a shining example of this. Steamboat is doing the ten punches in the corner, and the referee actually waistlocks him and attempts a takedown to break it up. He also keeps blocking Steamboat's strikes. Steamboat is trying to following Savage out in their Toronto match, and the referee again grabs a waistlock and this time takes him down to the mat to keep him from going outside. I don't care what rules a promotion sets up as long as they're enforced consistently so the matches make sense. Something getting a DQ or reprimand in one match and being ignored the next is annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Actually between the Cryme Tyme Word Up stuff and Pretty Ricky, all I kept thinking about was that Triple H "Dance for Me" promo he cut on Booker T. Just towing the company line I guess. The Cryme Tyme stuff at least has them outsmarting people or otherwise getting the upper hand, the Pretty Ricky stuff just made him look like a silly negro with Beetlejuice teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 - I was watching Savage/Steamboat from Boston - Not knowing the rules of wrestling, which are that to break a hold, the wrestler has to be in the ropes, not just reaching out for them. So Savage would grab the rope to escape an armbar, the referee would kick his hand away, and Gorilla would bitch about how the referee was showing bias toward Steamboat (which is an illogical thing for a pro-babyface announcer to say) and that he should have released the hold.I can't fault him for that one. The rope-break rule is one which has always been applied inconsistently. Most of the time, all you have to do is make physical contact with the ropes in any way and the hold most be broken, period. The only occasions where the "you have to be IN the ropes" situation happens is in the exact scenario described above, when the heel grabs them and the ref kicks his hands away for a cheap pop. You never see the opposite done, with an unbiased referee kicking the face off the ropes to favor the heel. Gorilla was notorious sometimes for crankily pointing out things that didn't make sense to him, even if pointing such things out wasn't a good idea re: keeping kayfabe. Referees in 80s WWF are also often horrible, to a point where I think they sometimes took heat from the heels and put it on themselves. Jake/Steamboat from MSG in May '86 is a shining example of this. Steamboat is doing the ten punches in the corner, and the referee actually waistlocks him and attempts a takedown to break it up. He also keeps blocking Steamboat's strikes. Steamboat is trying to following Savage out in their Toronto match, and the referee again grabs a waistlock and this time takes him down to the mat to keep him from going outside. I don't care what rules a promotion sets up as long as they're enforced consistently so the matches make sense. Something getting a DQ or reprimand in one match and being ignored the next is annoying.That's not the ref's fault, nearly every time it's the booker's. I spent a little time as a referee, and can't begin to count the number of times that I was ordered to do something silly or illogical because, well, because that's what the booker wanted or that's what the wrestlers in the match demanded of me. Refs don't exactly enjoy a lot of creative control. Gardens. Good match. The finish was Savage hitting Steamboat with a foreign object. Monsoon was insistent that Elizabeth handed it to him, even though she was on the other side of the ring, and the camera clearly caught Savage pulling it out of his tights. Jesse kept arguing with him that that wasn't what happened even in the post-match. Had he paid better attention to the match, he would have seen what happened. - I was watching Savage/Steamboat from Toronto. Another good match. The finish was Steamboat beating Savage back in the ring by one count and winning the match by COR. Gorilla kept going on about how the match was stopped due to blood loss, and that must have been why Steamboat was declared the winner, again not really paying attention to the match. Did they show any camera shots of the announce table at those shows? Where they were, what kind of view they had, if they were using monitors, etcetera? Considering Gorilla's ultra-thick glasses, it would be easy for him to miss shit even if he was paying attention. But most importantly, were any of those matches on live television? If not, then it's also the promotion's fault for not even paying attention to obvious mistakes on their own commentary. Those audio tracks were recorded separately from the crowd noise, they should've at least re-done those specific parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 The Pretty Ricky stuff was really racist and I have no idea what the point of it was. Maybe Michael Hayes is still pissed off at Mark Henry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 even as a young mark I always thought the WWF put too much focus on their referees. The SNME DVD illustrates this as Vince and Jesse bicker ad naseum over referees and rules. You could argue that it made the product seem more legit but it was tiresome after awhile and I'm glad they went away from it in the 90s. I would agree it had more to do with the booking and not necessarily the announcing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 In MSG, is it possible the commission yet assigned their own referees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 It is the announcer's job to know what the match is trying to accomplish, and also not undercut the match. And Gorilla pointing things out that don't make sense to him is a bad trait that actively takes away from him being a good announcer, and undercuts a match. And I know WWE is full of detail freaks, but I don't see a booker specifically calling for 10 punches in the corner in the middle of a match on an MSG house show in a midcard match. It's more likely a spot called by Jake mid-match, and the ref in turn tried to make himself look like a tough guy. And yes, Gorilla had a monitor, and the match was broadcast live on whatever network aired Mapleleaf Gardens shows. I understand liking childhood favorites, and think it's cool, and one of the great things about being a wrestling fan. But if that's what it is, no problem in saying so, instead of making the focus on Gorilla's bad bifocals. One more Gorilla point: During Savage/Steamboat at Wrestlemania III, he goes into this little tangent about how the referee may disqualify Savage for throwing a "deliberate" clothesline. Jesse responded and said of course, it was deliberate, and asked Gorilla if he thinks he clotheslined him by accident. Gorilla responded that referees disqualify wrestlers for intentionally trying to put guys out of commission. News to me ... Also, does it bug anyone else that 80s WWF matches were always laid out with a ref bump where the heel would get the visual fall after the ref bump instead of the babyface? Meaning the heel comes out looking like the moral victor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Also, does it bug anyone else that 80s WWF matches were always laid out with a ref bump where the heel would get the visual fall after the ref bump instead of the babyface? Meaning the heel comes out looking like the moral victor? I think 80's WWF booking is generally ass-backwards when it comes to that kind of thing. I think we've discussed it here before in regards to Hogan and how guys that turned on him were booked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 It is the announcer's job to know what the match is trying to accomplish, and also not undercut the match. And Gorilla pointing things out that don't make sense to him is a bad trait that actively takes away from him being a good announcer, and undercuts a match.Yeah, I know, I said as much. Probably since Gorilla had that Job For Life spot, he didn't give a fuck if he was following the rules and was sometimes out there to just amuse himself or put himself over. (The few Monsoon matches I've seen would actually corroborate that attitude, since he was one of those heels who tended to be kind of a dick when it came to cutting off the babyface's offense too soon and too often.) And I know WWE is full of detail freaks, but I don't see a booker specifically calling for 10 punches in the corner in the middle of a match on an MSG house show in a midcard match. It's more likely a spot called by Jake mid-match, and the ref in turn tried to make himself look like a tough guy.With a spot like that, with the referee actually picking Jake up physically, it was most likely Jake himself who called it. Most wrestlers would turn around and punch a ref who did that outta nowhere, it would be considered shooting on them. I understand liking childhood favorites, and think it's cool, and one of the great things about being a wrestling fan. But if that's what it is, no problem in saying so, instead of making the focus on Gorilla's bad bifocals.Childhood favorites? I didn't start watching wrestling until 1999. All my fanboyism has been gained by greatly enjoying his work in hindsight and on video tape. One more Gorilla point: During Savage/Steamboat at Wrestlemania III, he goes into this little tangent about how the referee may disqualify Savage for throwing a "deliberate" clothesline. Jesse responded and said of course, it was deliberate, and asked Gorilla if he thinks he clotheslined him by accident. Gorilla responded that referees disqualify wrestlers for intentionally trying to put guys out of commission. News to me ...Yeah, that's another fault of his, sometimes Gorilla would get stuck on one point and simply not let it go and insist on getting in the last word. Hey, like me! No wonder I like him so much. Also, does it bug anyone else that 80s WWF matches were always laid out with a ref bump where the heel would get the visual fall after the ref bump instead of the babyface? Meaning the heel comes out looking like the moral victor?Ref bumps and visual falls in general bug me, since it seems like every time a ref gets bumped then almost instantly afterwards someone has someone else covered for about a ten-count. American wrestling tends to be real lazy about that, how a ref always Just So Happens to get bumped right before something important happens. Vince Russo is probably the worst abuser of this, as the workers always have psychic powers which let them know that the match won't end before the ref bump so that they have an opportunity to interfere or turn on someone or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 I love Gorilla but that WM 3 rant really is indefensible. Like Jingus said he just blurted out something to get in the last word or to try to justify his asinine comment I always saw "heel gets visual pinfall" as an attempt to actually let the heel get some semblance of heat as heels in the WWF were always jobbing and bumping around like pinballs. In theory it was to help with the heel's crediblity. That's the way I took it as a child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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